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Thread: [Primer/Deck] Pox

  1. #4861
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I was discussing a GB lantern deck in the modern section and I suggested Smallpox for that strategy. It dawned on me: why not merge Lantern Control with Pox in Legacy? Pox is already a prison deck that struggles with top-deck battles. Lantern is a prison strategy that has a primary goal of controlling top decks. The overlap card could easily be Ensnaring Bridge. Essentially just play the Pox game then windmill slam a Lantern + Codex Shredder to keep them from top-decking anything relevant.

    Just a rough list to get the conversation started:

    4x Lantern of Insight
    4x Codex Shredder
    4x Pyxis of Pandemonium
    2x Pithing Needle
    3x Ensnaring Bridge
    3x Mox Opal

    4x Thoughtseize
    4x Smallpox
    4x Hymn to Tourach (or Sinkhole)
    2x Surgical Extraction
    2x Toxic Deluge
    1x Crucible of Worlds
    1x Liliana, the Last Hope
    2x Bitterblossom

    4x Vault of Whispers
    9x Swamp
    3x Wasteland
    3x Mishra's Factory
    3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    2x Buried Ruin


    This is just something to throw against a wall. Bitterblossom + Factory for win-conditions so far, which are slow but this is a prison deck in the purest form. Just an interesting idea to test out. I am assuming that companions, in some way or form, will be dealt with on Monday, so this doesn't take them into consideration.
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  2. #4862
    Darth Poxious

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I was discussing a GB lantern deck in the modern section and I suggested Smallpox for that strategy. It dawned on me: why not merge Lantern Control with Pox in Legacy? Pox is already a prison deck that struggles with top-deck battles. Lantern is a prison strategy that has a primary goal of controlling top decks. The overlap card could easily be Ensnaring Bridge. Essentially just play the Pox game then windmill slam a Lantern + Codex Shredder to keep them from top-decking anything relevant.

    Just a rough list to get the conversation started:

    4x Lantern of Insight
    4x Codex Shredder
    4x Pyxis of Pandemonium
    2x Pithing Needle
    3x Ensnaring Bridge
    3x Mox Opal

    4x Thoughtseize
    4x Smallpox
    4x Hymn to Tourach (or Sinkhole)
    2x Surgical Extraction
    2x Toxic Deluge
    1x Crucible of Worlds
    1x Liliana, the Last Hope
    2x Bitterblossom

    4x Vault of Whispers
    9x Swamp
    3x Wasteland
    3x Mishra's Factory
    3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    2x Buried Ruin


    This is just something to throw against a wall. Bitterblossom + Factory for win-conditions so far, which are slow but this is a prison deck in the purest form. Just an interesting idea to test out. I am assuming that companions, in some way or form, will be dealt with on Monday, so this doesn't take them into consideration.
    I like the list . Has Liliana of the Veil died to obscelescence? Last Hope with Bridge is awesome. I'm guessing Cursed Scroll + Bridge is also outdated?
    One Liliana to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all into the Sinkhole Wasteland!

  3. #4863
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I just didn't have room for Liliana with the artifacts, and the cheaper disruption is key to playing on curve. Cursed Scroll seems pretty smart actually; it's another artifact to feed Opal. I'll probably cut Blossom for scrolls and try it.
    Brainstorm Realist

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  4. #4864

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I've long thought these two decks needed to get together over a few drinks to see what happens. I tried jamming the lantern combo into a (bad, unoptimized) pox deck a few years back. It didn't go well, but I wonder if using a karn pox shell would work too, since the pieces are all artifacts?

    Regardless this build seems quite miserable for opponents and thus excites me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  5. #4865
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I think Ensnaring Bridge + Cursed Scroll + Lantern Synergies will be very good. Having Smallpox, targeted discard, and even Scheming Symmetry if we wanted it, would be pretty awesome.

    Updated rough draft:

    4x Lantern of Insight
    4x Codex Shredder
    4x Arcum's Astrolabe
    3x Ensnaring Bridge
    3x Mox Opal
    2x Cursed Scroll

    3x Scheming Symmetry
    4x Thoughtseize
    4x Smallpox
    2x Hymn to Tourach
    2x Surgical Extraction
    1x Dead of Winter

    4x Vault of Whispers
    9x Swamp
    3x Wasteland
    3x Mishra's Factory
    4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1x Buried Ruin

    Sideboard
    3x Pithing Needle
    1x Crucible of Worlds
    1x Liliana, the Last Hope
    2x Liliana's Triumph
    3x Ratchet Bomb
    2x Nihil Spellbomb
    3x OPEN


    Scroll and Factory for win-conditions. I got the Urborg count up to 4, it seems pretty important. An instant speed way to draw the top-decked card from Symmetry seems pretty important. It might make sense to just go into Arcum's Astrolabe territory. I think at that point Pyxis of Pandemonium is the weak spot, so that would get cut. Then sideboard the Pithing Needle(s) to get in Astrolabe. Of course, then it's Snow-Covered Swamps and Dead of Winter.

    Some other off-the-wall ideas (Nihil Spellbomb seems the best choice):

    Nihil Spellbomb
    Necrogen Spellbomb
    Black Vise
    Cremate
    Skeletal Scrying
    Foulmire Knight
    Costly Plunder


    EDIT: Black Vise is looking pretty spicy, honestly. Once we get the Bridge + Lantern soft lock I think Vise will be a fast clock. Hymn goes out for Sinkhole in that plan I think.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  6. #4866

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Do you think 4x mill effects will be enough? Admittedly it isn't the wincon since we have the Pox shell but I feel like it'd be nice to always have 2 out to try and play around Brainstorm.

    I'd also try and find room for at least one Needle main just to deal with whatever annoying thing sneaks through our discard. Not sure how I feel about the Dead of Winter since we already have Bridge and Smallpox (and technically Cursed Scroll) to deal with creatures. Definitely deserves some side slots though.

    Black Vice could be pretty decent. Cremate also looks good (though I'd rather just run more surgicals).

    Edit: Forgot Scroll also answers planeswalkers so maybe Needle isn't as necessary, still just like it as a sort of catch-all card lol but I could very well be tunnel-visioning
    Last edited by Sella; 05-19-2020 at 02:20 AM.

  7. #4867
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    How does scheming symmetry work with leyline of sanctity?
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    hardcore is our resident aggro pox master, hopefully he can help you

    "Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux

  8. #4868

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    How does scheming symmetry work with leyline of sanctity?
    I'm guessing it cant be cast since it needs two valid targets.

    Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  9. #4869
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Sella View Post
    Do you think 4x mill effects will be enough? Admittedly it isn't the wincon since we have the Pox shell but I feel like it'd be nice to always have 2 out to try and play around Brainstorm.

    I'd also try and find room for at least one Needle main just to deal with whatever annoying thing sneaks through our discard. Not sure how I feel about the Dead of Winter since we already have Bridge and Smallpox (and technically Cursed Scroll) to deal with creatures. Definitely deserves some side slots though.

    Black Vice could be pretty decent. Cremate also looks good (though I'd rather just run more surgicals).

    Edit: Forgot Scroll also answers planeswalkers so maybe Needle isn't as necessary, still just like it as a sort of catch-all card lol but I could very well be tunnel-visioning
    I think Scroll can control small creatures, which is what Dead of Winter would be doing. Dead can be cut, no problem. That means more mill effects can be added.

    I tend to agree on Pithing Needle maindeck, for 2 reasons: it's another artifact to feed Mox Opal and it's very useful against PW's. Scroll won't answer Oko in any meaningful way, and Oko completely destroys Bridge. I also like that with targeted discard Needle can answer turn off fetchlands, furthering the mana-denial plan. Once the deck goes full on mana-denial and controlling top-decks, Black Vise should be a very fast clock. Fitting it in will be a chore, and possibly not worth the effort.

    I'm not sold on Astrolabe either. It's just a cantrip to facilitate Scheming Symmetry, which doesn't seem great. I think the plan has to be mill-rocks to deal with whatever opponent's tutor.

    So changes:
    -1 Dead of Winter
    -4 Astrolabe
    -2 Hymn to Tourach

    +2 Pyxis of Pandemonium
    +4 Sinkhole
    +1 Liliana, the Last Hope

    Another option, and call me crazy if need be, is to play Ghost Quarter to compliment Wasteland/Sinkhole. The idea being this: Scheming Symmetry > Ghost Quarter to force a shuffle or just cut off a land for them to actually play the card they tutored. GQ turns into Strip Mine at that point.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  10. #4870
    Darth Poxious

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I'd cut the Astrolabes for the Black Vises. I'm totally going to test this on MTGO this payday...
    Thanks Safety!!
    One Liliana to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all into the Sinkhole Wasteland!

  11. #4871

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I'm definitely liking Vise + Sinkhole, Sinkhole gives us another way to really wreck Snowko's manabase. Makes me wonder if some Ghost Quarters might actually be worth 1-2 slots just because of the synergy with Symmetry safety mentioned and the fact it can yeet basics.

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    I've long thought these two decks needed to get together over a few drinks to see what happens. I tried jamming the lantern combo into a (bad, unoptimized) pox deck a few years back. It didn't go well, but I wonder if using a karn pox shell would work too, since the pieces are all artifacts?

    Regardless this build seems quite miserable for opponents and thus excites me.

    Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
    Although he is a bit expensive (cmc wise) I wonder if a couple copies of Karn merit some inclusion. Having the option to press the win button and Lattice lock is always nice, and it'd let us run fun stuff like Crucible and Needle with a bit more consistency than shoving them in the main as 1-ofs.

  12. #4872

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Sella View Post
    Although he is a bit expensive (cmc wise) I wonder if a couple copies of Karn merit some inclusion. Having the option to press the win button and Lattice lock is always nice, and it'd let us run fun stuff like Crucible and Needle with a bit more consistency than shoving them in the main as 1-ofs.
    I had the same thought. It allows you to go less "all in" on the combo (unless that was the goal) but still allow for more slots for disruption/removal. Many versions run dark rits anyway, so he can land t2 or 3 with mana to spare.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  13. #4873
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    1) karn seems great, definitely an Avenue to test
    2) ghost quarter x1-2 + crucible seems decent
    3) I don't think I can squeeze in dark ritual. I think overall Opal is better acceleration with the artifact theme, it dodges smallpox, and it makes early turns explosive without sacrificing a card (ritual.)

    Good thoughts everyone, this idea seems really fun.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  14. #4874

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I'm not sold on Astrolabe either. It's just a cantrip to facilitate Scheming Symmetry, which doesn't seem great. I think the plan has to be mill-rocks to deal with whatever opponent's tutor.
    Quote Originally Posted by OmniStrata View Post
    I'd cut the Astrolabes for the Black Vises. I'm totally going to test this on MTGO this payday...
    Thanks Safety!!
    Astrolabe also helps facilitate Opal, do you think cutting it would have a meaningful impact on Opal's consistency? Lmk how it plays out, ultimately I wonder if it'd be worth cutting both Astrolabe and Opal to throw in more discard spells. T1 Thoughtseize/Inquisition into T2 lantern + mill rock is a pretty good line.

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    I had the same thought. It allows you to go less "all in" on the combo (unless that was the goal) but still allow for more slots for disruption/removal. Many versions run dark rits anyway, so he can land t2 or 3 with mana to spare.
    I feel like we definitely want to keep the key pieces like lanterns and mill rocks (and probably bridges too tbh) in the main. I was more thinking of Karn as a tutor for random stuff we'd need outside of the combo.

    Safety's right about rits, I don't think we'll be able to find room for those. T2-3 Karn feels a lot less impactful than something like T1-2 Lily anyways

  15. #4875

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Off topic does anyone have a good loam pox build? I was wondering if it could run gyruda.

  16. #4876

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    This variant seems pretty cool.

    On Karn, even without Lattice you can go with Liquimetal Coating to keep your opponent off lands.

  17. #4877
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour_Asses View Post
    This variant seems pretty cool.

    On Karn, even without Lattice you can go with Liquimetal Coating to keep your opponent off lands.
    Yeah, I think I'm going to have to buckle down and get some Karns for this. It looks really promising so far. If I wanted old-school cred I could always play Death Wish, but I don't think that's worth building around.

    Just tinkering with this list for a little bit first, then Karn is the next avenue. The more I was warping the deck to fit Scheming Symmetry, the more I felt the risk wasn't worth the reward. I think it's better to just not try and work a minimum 2-card combo (that doesn't win the game) and instead just focus on the prison aspect. So with that in mind...enter Winter Orb. This not only feeds Mox Opal synergies but Opal still untaps each turn. Smallpox seems a little weird next to Winter Orb/Black Vise but there really isn't a better land destruction spell at 2 mana. Rain of Tears is just too expensive for Legacy. I think between Wasteland, Ghost Quarter, Sinkhole, Smallpox, and Pithing Needle the lock should be pretty reliable.

    4x Lantern of Insight
    4x Codex Shredder
    2x Ghoulcaller's Bell
    3x Pithing Needle
    3x Winter Orb
    3x Black Vise
    3x Mox Opal

    4x Thoughtseize
    4x Sinkhole
    2x Smallpox
    2x Innocent Blood
    2x Surgical Extraction
    1x Crucible of Worlds
    1x Liliana, the Last Hope

    4x Wasteland
    4x Rishadan Port
    4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    6x Swamp
    4x Vault of Whispers

    Sideboard
    2x Nihil Spellbomb
    2x Toxic Deluge
    2x Ratchet Bomb
    1x Engineered Explosives
    8x OPEN


    Spicy? Yes. Good? Ha, I'm not so sure about that...
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    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  18. #4878
    Darth Poxious

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    The doom is against the combo junkies. Us without Force of Will. How does Sphere of Resistance sound against Unfair decks? Without Dark Ritual, no more turn 1 Trinisphere.
    One Liliana to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all into the Sinkhole Wasteland!

  19. #4879

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Tentative list w/Karn. Keeping Symmetry in the main to grab the important 1-ofs (bridge, crucible, needle, vise) in case I can't get a Karn down and tutor them from the sb for whatever reason, also kept Labe for its synergy with Symmetry (plus its just good ramp and plays well with mox) and threw in a couple GQs. That being said labes + symmetry + GQs could easily go out for something else if we feel iffy on them.

    I think 3 is the right number for Karn, he's really good but his cmc is also pretty high for this deck so I feel like he might brick at 4.


    4x Lantern of Insight
    4x Codex Shredder
    4x Arcum's Astrolabe
    3x Mox Opal
    1x Ensnaring Bridge
    1x Crucible of Worlds
    1x Pithing Needle
    1x Black Vise

    3x Karn, the Great Creator

    2x Surgical Extraction

    4x Thoughtseize
    4x Sinkhole
    2x Smallpox
    3x Scheming Symmetry

    9x Snow-Covered Swamp
    4x Vault of Whispers
    4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4x Wasteland
    2x Ghost Quarter


    SB:
    At least 1x more of Needle, Crucible, Vise, Bridge
    1x Mycosynth Lattice

    For a Symmetry/Labe/etc-less list, probably just do something like
    -3 Scheming Symmetry
    -4 Arcum's Astrolabe
    -2 Ghost Quarter
    -However many swamps you're comfortable with
    -1 Ensnaring Bridge if you feel like it (contrary to what I said earlier I'm not sure if it warrants a 3-of main when we can tutor it with Karn, but running the random 1-of main feels bad without Symmetry)

    Then the empty slots can honestly go towards whatever, personally I'd say a couple more copies of Needle and Vise definitely go in the main and then the rest is preference.

  20. #4880
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Cool looking Karn list! I think if you are playing Astrolabe (and it doesn't get banned eventually...) then the 2nd color is basically 'free'. Also, don't forget Liquimetal Coating in your Karn-board!

    I think I am missing a key ingredient in my list, something that makes Ghost Quarter better than Rishadan Port: Ashiok, Dream Render. I think this is going to be very, very good at denying fetchland activations and controlling top-decks. I think before even the 5th mill-rock there needs to be 2-3 copies of this card. It means I want Dark Ritual again, which is fine because I'm thinking this will only be a 20-22 land deck. I'll start with 1 copy and go from there.

    Ashiok I think will be pretty good at gluing a couple of these synergies together.
    Brainstorm Realist

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