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Thread: [Primer/Deck] Pox

  1. #1041
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post

    Sideboard would be

    3 Darkblast
    4 thorn of amethyst
    4 surgical extraction
    +3 free slots
    For your free slots, I'd suggest giving Shadow of Doubt a shot. Unless your meta runs no fetchlands, GSZ, or tutors.

  2. #1042
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Went 3-1 today in the local tourney. Low turnout considering the coming weekend events. Only ten players. Still the competition is good making it a valuable exercise.

    I made some changes

    4 Bloodghast
    2 necroplasm
    4 pack rat
    3 the rack
    2 tombstalker

    4 dark ritual
    4 Smallpox
    3 darkblast
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 pox
    4 Liliana of the veil

    20 Swamp
    3 Dakmor Salvage


    Sideboard

    4 surgical extraction
    4 thorn of Amethyst
    3 phyrexian arena
    1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
    3 engineered plague


    My first opponent played a Modern token deck.
    I won first game easily, but was forced to take the deck more seriously when I lost rather quickly to a two-card combo. It was a white creature that untapped whenever another creature enter play, and a red enchantment that enabled a creature to tap to make hasty elemental tokens.
    Liliana prevented a repeat. 2-1

    Second I steamroll a shardless agent deck. In hindsight that is weird; used be a hard match -up. Go figure. 2-0

    At this point I feel the odds are good to go 3-1 despite next up is the local RUG player.
    I lose first to mongoose, but win second thanks to the rack. My opponents creatures are faster than mine however, and they are backuped with counter spells. This win him the game.
    1-2

    Lastly I am paired against an Ad Nauseam deck with burning wish.
    First game he make 12 goblins on turn one. gg
    Next he play AN on turn one to which I answer with surgical and remove his dark rituals. He stop draw card at two life. Because her failed draw any petal or LED he passes turn to me. I play land, bloodghast, and attack for lethal.
    Final game of the duel, and day, is exceptional.
    Turn one my opponent wish for empty the Warren's and make 14 goblins. Uh-oh!
    Best to top deck Necroplasm to play with my ritual or its over. I do.

    Overall the deck feels OK. Putting Darkblast back in was a good decision. Same with the rack.
    I'll add a third Necroplasm ASAP.
    The sideboard will probably lose Arena's in favour of 1 cc discard. It is quite necessary to know my opponents hand when they play RUG and miracle.

  3. #1043
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Congrats! You had some tough matchups! A question: how did Pack Rat perform?

  4. #1044
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Rat very rarely get huge. What make him great is the potential he has. Think of him as black lord of Atlantis. Decks that do badly against merfolk have trouble handling the rat that multiplies.
    Last edited by Hardcore; 04-16-2014 at 05:04 AM.

  5. #1045

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    yeah, i'm also curious to hear about how the rats fared especially since hardcore's running 4 big poxes..

    wow! hardcore's list has got to be one of the versions with the fastest clock! take a look at that threat suit!

  6. #1046
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    @zenit..., yeah, fast for a pox deck;-)
    However it really it is suboptimal; a proper suicide deck would be faster, and a nethervoid type have a better control ability.
    Still, suicide would have inferior creatures to Delver, and nethervoid too expensive cards.
    In short, it is built for the meta with My budget.

    I could go play burn I guess, but don't see much fun in that!

  7. #1047

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    hardcore, what did you mean by "inferior"..did you mean suicide black have smaller creatures? inferior in terms of utility?

  8. #1048
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Inferior in terms of casting speed. Delver of Secrets can be cast turn one, and be protected by counter magic from there until are dead.

  9. #1049
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Hi!
    I went 5 – 2 with LoamPox at a 80men tournament last saturday.

    At friday evening, I played a few games with my friends. I had to face Tezzerator, manaless dredge and a combo-homebrew. Until friday, I had a monoB-list. It was like:

    4 Liliana otV
    4 Smallpox
    4 Sinkhole
    4 Dark ritual
    3Thoughtseize
    3 IoK
    3 Cursed Scroll
    3 Innocent Blood
    2 Nether Void
    2 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Entomb
    1 Necroplasm
    1 Netherspirit
    1Darkblast

    Lands
    13 Swamp
    4 Wasteland
    4 Mishras Factory
    3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    I felt pretty comfortable with this list until I had to play against Tezzerator. Ensnaring Bridge and a Pithing Needle on Cursed Scroll were enough to deal with all my winconditions. So I thought about an green-splash for Decay and Sylvan Library. Decay to deal with those cards which a monoB-list can´t handle and the Librarys to be in a better position when the topdeck-wars start.
    So my friends and I worked on the following list with which I would start on saturday:

    4 Liliana otV
    4 Smallpox
    4 Sinkhole
    4 Mox Diamond
    3Thoughtseize
    3 IoK
    3 Decay
    2 Tombstalker
    2 Sylvan Library
    2 Life from the Loam
    2 Nether Void
    1 Entomb
    1 Necroplasm

    Lands
    4 Swamp
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Bayou
    4 Wasteland
    3 Mishras Factory
    3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    2 Stage
    2 Dark Depths

    Sideboard:
    4 Vampire Hexmage
    2 Pithing Needle
    3 Surgial Extraction
    2 Hymn to Tourach
    2 Toxic Deluge
    2 Engineered Plague

    Just three Factories and the Depth-Combo felt a little bit less to me, so I added two Tombstalkers which should work out pretty good in most of the matchups.
    The 4 Hexmage in SB were the idea of a friend of mine (thanks to Holly) and performed very good at G2 and G3.
    Just a short MU-description. I didn´t took any notes on saturday.

    Round 1 Maverick 2 – 0

    Round 2 Miracles 0 – 2

    Round 3 my friend (here: Holly) with manaless dredge 2 – 1

    Round 4 Kobold-Storm 2 – 0

    Round 5 Deadguy Ale 2 – 0

    Round 6 ANT 2 – 1

    Round 7 Esperblade 1 – 2

    Thanks to Holly for his Sideboard-advices and to Hardcore (I saw Necroplasm the first time in your lists. It was my card-of-the-day at saturday :-D )

    Any questions?

  10. #1050
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I thought it would be interesting to show how my deck has evolved in a year, more specifically from GothCon tourney to GothCon tourney.


    Perish is gone, but so is many greenish decks. (Haven't seen maverick in ages). Jinxed Idol was an idea to fight Miracles, a deck that is quite rare. Away with the idol. Nihilith is replaced by Pack Rat for a swarm ability, and the rack is Another way to win that cannot be bolted or sworded. Obviously I had not acquired Liliana last time:), still she is not an auto include. One must consider what she does in the deck. This is aggro Control so why not.

    Inquisition of Kozilek may be replaced by Gitaxian Probe. (I included IoKs for the information gathering ability foremost.) This would allow me to run four of Pox and Liliana. Need to test it some Before the tourney tomorrow.
    Last edited by Hardcore; 04-17-2014 at 05:37 AM.

  11. #1051
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    Perish is gone, but so is many greenish decks. (Haven't seen maverick in ages). Jinxed Idol was an idea to fight Miracles, a deck that is quite rare. Away with the idol. Nihilith is replaced by Pack Rat for a swarm ability, and the rack is Another way to win that cannot be bolted or sworded. Obviously I had not acquired Liliana last time:), still she is not an auto include. One must consider what she does in the deck. This is aggro Control so why not.

    Inquisition of Kozilek may be replaced by Gitaxian Probe. (I included IoKs for the information gathering ability foremost.) This would allow me to run four of Pox and Liliana. Need to test it some Before the tourney tomorrow.
    How bad is your meta that you'd pay life to just look at your enemy's hand [draw a card] rather than look at their hand and rip down a win con? With seven Pox effects and less than 24 land do you have enough mana to max out the use of Pack Rat? Does GY hate punish you severely or are you able to get around it? Ah, SDT in the board. Usually you place anti-X cards in your sideboard, what's SDT supposed to be used against? Wouldn't SDT be better main deck? Liliana is not an auto-include ?

    I don't mean to sound like an ass but your card choices are stumping me. I understand you're on a budget, but there's another forum for decks like that.

    Though for threats, since you don't run 'fancy lands', I'd suggest bringing back Chimeric Idol. He does more damage than Necroplasm or Bloodghast and it seems to me you want to butcher your opponent's health as Aggro Pox. In which case you need better than 2 damage/turn clocks.

    I do understand that you're trying to overcome Pox's 'symmetric disrupt' by flooding your side of the board with threats. After all, classic prison Pox builds have problems with 'too many threats'. The hurdle I see in that idea is the lack of resources issue. Pox in any form will have less resources available and getting all those threats online, especially Pack Rat ability seems difficult.

  12. #1052

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Inq and Thoughtseize give info and rip cards. No need to thin deck with probe either. Not that kind of deck. Maybe run Mutavault to help with Pack Rat. Good to see you got some Lillies.

  13. #1053
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Probe cost no mana, this is important at start of games. I already have nine 1 cc spells to cast turn one and do not need to up that to ten.

    The draw effect let me do some dredge tricks.

    Also probe is not a dead card late game.

    Finally life loss is rarely what make me worry.

    Oh, forgot! Playing blue probe may cause confusion in opponents expecting more orthodox builds.

  14. #1054
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I have considered boosting Pack Rat but it simply is not worthwhile. At best I have three in play due to only having mana to make one a turn. I could use one of those turns to play mutavault or another type of rat, of course, but what would be the point? Note however that three is enough to block and kill a goyf, or the opponent.

  15. #1055
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    Probe cost no mana, this is important at start of games. I already have nine 1 cc spells to cast turn one and do not need to up that to ten.

    The draw effect let me do some dredge tricks.

    Also probe is not a dead card late game.

    Finally life loss is rarely what make me worry.

    Oh, forgot! Playing blue probe may cause confusion in opponents expecting more orthodox builds.
    Dredge tricks. Ok. Not a dead card? Well, instead of disruption, you're cantripping. I'd rather top deck an Innocent Blood, which I've noticed your deck can't run or a Cursed Scroll, or some other 1 mana card that will do something to disrupt/harm my opponent. Paying life is not worth drawing for in Pox. The best cards in Pox have only 3 goals: mana, damage, disruption. Ensnaring Bridge, Plagues, Dark Rits, all of these do something to your opponent. Things like bottled Cloister, Dark Confidant/Phyrexian Arena, do nothing against your opponent.

    I think your 2014 list is probably fine since all those cards do Pox's big 3 requirements. Don't fall for normal card advantage, it's not worth it!

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I was wondering what people think of adding in 1 copy of grim tutor and 1 copy of The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale to the main board.

  17. #1057
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Some people auto-include Tabernacle, it depends on your meta... not to mention your budget. I've seen people use it as a SB-card. It's a legit card for sure. I'm not so sure about Grim Tutor. Granted, it can fetch you every card in the deck, but is it really worth it? I've never considered it. Why not use Infernal Tutor (hellbend ain't that difficult for a deck like Pox), or maybe even Rhystic Tutor (after you killed/ destroyed the board)? If you got a Grim Tutor somewhere (I sure don't have one: budget and all that), I suggest you try it and let us know how it worked for you

  18. #1058
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Tutors are for combo decks. Card disadvantage when you must win right now. The only disadvantage we have to run is Dark Ritual in case we run the risk of turn 2-3 death. Super fast aggro like Dredge, Elves, Merfolk, and Goblins need that turn 1 Engineered Plague or turn 2 Night of Souls' Betrayal. I don't remember any recent builds that used tutors to win.

    We already throw away many cards and use virtual card advantage to win. Throwing away more after Dark Rituals' card disadvantage doesn't sound like a good investment for the deck.

  19. #1059

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    You know what Grim Tutor does do you? It's no card disadvantage.

  20. #1060
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    So my friend convinced me to drop by his campus and I found out that some of the EDH players there were also into Legacy.

    So I decided to drop last week just to see how the meta was in their area. Seems like most of them had 1-3 decks, mostly some budget options like Dredge and Burn, but a few of them did have Show & Tell, Reanimator, & Canadian Thresh. They also told me that there were Legacy tournaments held at San Diego games and comics on weekends, so I might start preparing myself for that later this year.

    Here's my current list:

    1 Nether Spirit

    4 Liliana of the Veil

    1 Crucible of Worlds
    2 Cursed Scroll
    3 Dark Ritual
    1 Darkblast
    1 Entomb
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    1 Infernal Tutor
    3 Innocent Blood
    3 Inquisition of Kozilek
    1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
    1 Raven's Crime
    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Sinkhole
    4 Smallpox
    1 The Rack

    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Dakmor Salvage
    4 Mishra's Factory
    7 Swamp
    3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland

    Sideboard:

    2 Engineered Plague
    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Extirpate
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Perish
    2 Pithing Needle
    1 Shrieking Affliction
    1 Syphon Life
    1 Toxic Deluge

    So it's a slightly less linear version of the common build. I'm not entirely fixed on buying Bayous (yet), so it's relying more on a minor tutor package to get it through Game 1 and 2.

    So the package follows with Entomb into:
    • Nether Spirit
    • Dakmor
    • Darkblast
    • Raven's Crime
    • Syphon Life (Game 2-3)

    Through testing over the past year, I found myself drawing Dark Rituals in the late game where it was hardly needed. So I replaced it with a singleton Sensei's Top and I never looked back. It just out performed early-late games for me and I eventually added in Catacombs. The Fetchlands synergized well enough that Crucible of Worlds made a slot in the Main Board in addition to create Wasteland lock outs. Just to round out the list, (1) Infernal Tutor was added so I could find more relevant silver bullets when needed, or a win-con (The Rack/Scrolls)

    The Side Board has been a pain trying to iron out. I wanted ways to react to Game 2/3 graveyard hate, so I had to drop Nether Spirits (G2/3) for something a bit more reliable. I thought about how back breaking Liliana's Rack was in Modern, so I decided to use Shrieking Affliction over Tombstalker. I avoided another copy of The Rack so I wouldn't be too prone to Artifact removal. I'm not sure if that's the best call since Engineered Explosives or even Chalice for 1 would just ruin my win-cons. So Syphon Life was added later if they did skim on GY hate. Or I could just add another Affliction to outrace?

    I'm not sure if that's the correct call or if I should just add more pressure options G2/3, but let me know how you guys feel about it. I've been fooling around with Lili's Rack in Modern, so I dunno how sneaky it would to convert the SB with more Rack/Affliction effects.

    Also, I normally had a mix of (1) Cursed Totem/(2) Ensnaring Bridges. I felt that it was a good splash against Sneak/Show, until I kept on getting Totems against Emrakul. It's hard to say if switching over to (3) Bridges is correct since I wanted options to lock out Deathrite/Elves and other match-ups. Maybe I have too much hate for it already since I have (2) Grafdiggers against Sun/Order and Pithing Needles.
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