[Primer/Deck] Pox

[Hardcore]

I just found this article in another threadhttp://www.gatheringmagic.com/circle...art-2-indepth/

The idea of "big spell" point to similarity to Jace when running Liliana.

[Polish Tamales]

I just found this article in another threadhttp://www.gatheringmagic.com/circle...art-2-indepth/

The idea of "big spell" point to similarity to Jace when running Liliana.

Jace & Lili in context of being a big spell isn't the same thing.

Both cards are great when you're ahead on board, but they're drastically different cards when you're behind. Jace at least gives you another chance to dig for an answer. Compare that to forcing one sacrificed creature might make a difference with Lili, but not all the time. In addition to that, Jace is literally a win-con on his own, where as Lili needs as much support as possible to make her Ultimate more devastating.

Liliana is more of a strong support card that enhances what POX is trying to do, but not in the same weight division as Jace in context of a big spell. I can't imagine playing Pox without her now, so she definitely a staple in it.

[Hardcore]

I, otoh, can imagine doing that for just those reasons. Liliana does not do much for My deck, except being a strong, Black, card.
(Excellent observations btw.! )

Or put another way; Liliana, and nether void, give a deck Big Spell abilities and put it in that category.
This is fine for classic pox, but I think I would do better by being more focused.

[zenitramleirdag]

in my opinion, in whatever form a pox deck should come, whether it be mono black, with a splash( or ), discard pox, LD pox, or even aggro pox..liliana should always be present..

[Hardcore]

Well, going by the article my deck would be a tempo deck working on the threat defense line. Ie. Protecting my threats with discard. Other tempo decks (Delver) have not enough mana to run planeswalkers, nor the need. Same for me I think.

[OmniStrata]

You know what Grim Tutor does do you? It's no card disadvantage.

Entomb is easier on the mana. What's a tutor?
Any Tutor: copy target card in your deck. Waste your turn doing nothing to your enemy if you're not a combo deck.

You're not disrupting, damaging, or generating mana with your tutor. We are not a combo deck. Well, ultimately it depends on your meta. If you're meta is all slo-mo decks, then tutor to your hearts content. When Craterhoof Elves and ANT and Helm of Obedience butcher you after the turn you tutor, don't say I haven't told you so. Ok, you're right that it's not card disadvantage. It's much worse: Tempo disadvantage.

Half my meta is combo decks that co$t 3x as much as my deck, and I eat combos for breakfast, thank goodness. If I had even a single tutor and wasted a turn on it, instead of Dark Ritualing Inqusition + Hymn, I'd be auto lossed.

[Polish Tamales]

Entomb is easier on the mana. What's a tutor?
Any Tutor: copy target card in your deck. Waste your turn doing nothing to your enemy if you're not a combo deck.

You're not disrupting, damaging, or generating mana with your tutor. We are not a combo deck. Well, ultimately it depends on your meta. If you're meta is all slo-mo decks, then tutor to your hearts content. When Craterhoof Elves and ANT and Helm of Obedience butcher you after the turn you tutor, don't say I haven't told you so. Ok, you're right that it's not card disadvantage. It's much worse: Tempo disadvantage.

Half my meta is combo decks that co$t 3x as much as my deck, and I eat combos for breakfast, thank goodness. If I had even a single tutor and wasted a turn on it, instead of Dark Ritualing Inqusition + Hymn, I'd be auto lossed.

Not all purposes of tutors are exclusively for combo lists. In some builds of Miracles, it allows you to hand pick a silver bullet from your SB games 2-3. In that type of deck, you're usually ahead on board anyway. If you're a careful player, you'll respect the combo decks before tapping out.

Infernal Tutor does seem like a solid choice for Pox. Depending on what you need for your win-con, you could double up, or find a specific one. Often times, it's not a wasted turn when your win-con is a 1-drop and it's not really a huge strain mid-game where you do need to apply a clock asap. 2cc on Infernal Tutor isn't bad when you consider it's conditions are tailored around Pox. In a top-deck position, it's an amazing option when you do draw it.

I like having options and flexibility to adapt to shenanigans. Either early game or late game.

I wouldn't honestly ever tap out to play a tutor unless I know I'm ahead on board. Under Chapin's theories, tempo is only worth what you can do with it. As long as Pox is assigned to it's primary role to disrupt my opponent's tempo, then Infernal Tutoring your win-con or silver bullet will help you close out the game, rather than prolonging it. Pox doesn't do well in games where it isn't applying pressure or if it's roles are switched midway.

[Chatto]

Tutors are great, even for a deck like Pox. But to be honest, we don't necessary need tutors, after all we are the ones to disrupt. We need a solid clock, one that's just a solid threat. We need something to dig with, while keeping the disruption up. Something like SDT or Sylvan Library for instance. If there was a black Brainstorm I would definitely consider it. A tutor, maybe, but Pox is not a deck that is in a hurry: you play with a grin and grind the game out.

[OmniStrata]

I had run Infernal Tutor before. A while ago, long before Liliana was a card. When I ran 4 Poxes in her place. My meta was mostly aggro and after a handful of games, I learned quickly that I needed to disrupt and kill enemy creatures faster. Can I use the tutor to find my silver bullet? Yes, I could. But I never ever had enough mana to cast the bullet after I tutored for it. I ended up dead.

I distinctly remember enlightened tutor being used against me as a supplement to CounterTop in order to place Blood Moon on top of the deck and counter my Liliana cast. Aside from that, can you name me 2 other control decks that need tutors? Tutors are for decks that need to win now, not 3 turns later. Pox doesn't run super fast clocks outside Tombstalker and Phyrexian Totem is too taxing for my meta.

TL;DR - Tutors slow you down when you're already slooww. What could you possibly tutor and cast on the same turn? Dark ritual chains into Nether Void or Night of Souls' Betrayal? lol In my opinion, my decklist is too tight for tutors and my previous experience with them was bad.

[Hardcore]

A bit of success again, last night. The deck was crappy but I went 3-1.

First opponent played Mono black too. Unfortunately he was new to legacy and was running a Modern deck with devotion zombies. I suggested he should add some 1 cc discard, dark ritual and turn it into a black weenie deck.
Still, he seemed impressed by black power and that is good:-)

A win is always a good start of a tourney and I continued to feel good all the way. Even if actually losing next.
Rick plays 12 post with green splash. (It is probably better known under another name, whatever that is)
First game I won thanks to playing pox effects. The second I lost because not doing so when I could.
( I would have had to sacrifice my only creature in play, and discard a pox card from hand. I choose to see if I could get a better position before poxing)
Last game he put Leyline of sanctity in play, and that was that.

Third game I duelled Lars Wilhelmsson who has plated BG for a long time now. Goyf, confidant, DRS etc. I am not sure but I think there is a marit lage in there too.
It was two close games were Pack Rat showed why he has a safe place in the deck. Lars managed to sweep the board at one time with pernicious deed, but my dudes don't stay in the grave fur long.

My last opponent was very recent winner of Swedish Open, Maximilian. He played the deck known as the Patriot (UWR Delver). Like all Delver decks it can be tricky if it get out a Delver with counter backup. This is what happened in first duel and it took serious spell casting to win.
I played around his daze to play two big pox. This was actually in self defense to kill his Delvers but brought him to 8 life. I drew a bloodghast to finish him off.
The second duel Maximilian got SFM and batterskull in play. I stabilized the situation with Tombstalker and was not much worried even when he played True-name nemesis . I had plans to turn around the game, but he drew a lightning bolt and closed the game too fast.
Last game for the evening and Max thought hard about keeping his hand. It was a fetch land, 2-3 wasteland, a Delver, lightning bolt and iirc a ponder.
I know this because I played inquisition to get his lightning bolt. My hand was not great but after IoK I could safely play my Pack Rat. Ftw.

I said the deck was crappy.
4 Bloodghast
2 necroplasm
4 pack rat
4 the rack
2 tombstalker

4 dark ritual
4 Smallpox
4 pox
4 inquisition of kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 chain of smog

20 Swamp
2 Dakmor Salvage

Sideboard

4 surgical extraction
4 thorn of Amethyst
3 Liliana of the veil
3 dark blast
1 vengeful Pharaoh

[ghostfire86]

For those that are running nether spirit have you considered running cabal therapy instead of inquisition of kozileck? Adding to the fact it hits multiple and nether spirit is easily sacrificed without worry it seems ideal with exception to the fact that you must be well studied on the staples for every deck arch type to properly increase your chance of hitting a card on first turn. I am thinking of trying to run two ct in addition to iok and htt.

[OmniStrata]

For those that are running nether spirit have you considered running cabal therapy instead of inquisition of kozileck? Adding to the fact it hits multiple and nether spirit is easily sacrificed without worry it seems ideal with exception to the fact that you must be well studied on the staples for every deck arch type to properly increase your chance of hitting a card on first turn. I am thinking of trying to run two ct in addition to iok and htt.

Problem. Nether Spirit is run in Pox decks with 2 creatures tops. You don't want to sac a Mishra's to Cabal Therapy. TheRapists are players who have LOTS of threats. You do NOT want to cast Cabal Therapy, and then wait for the Spirit to come up to use its flashback. I've tested this with a 2 N.Spirit deck and if you use Duress-effect beforehand, it's ok, however the lack of creatures makes Therapy an inferior 1 cmc Hymn. The best Cabal TheRapists are Dredge players or Aggro-Junk / Nic Fit who have lots of expendable creatures you WANT to sac to it.

I think Hardcore's aggro pox with his slightly higher threat count could use it. In my opinion, you'd want 16-20 threats to maximize its potential, and that's out of Pox's reasonable range.

[zenitramleirdag]

For those that are running nether spirit have you considered running cabal therapy instead of inquisition of kozileck? Adding to the fact it hits multiple and nether spirit is easily sacrificed without worry it seems ideal with exception to the fact that you must be well studied on the staples for every deck arch type to properly increase your chance of hitting a card on first turn. I am thinking of trying to run two ct in addition to iok and htt.

i'm not saying it won't work, because IF you can time it correctly, then you might nab 2 cards from your opponent's hand..

but if i were to add another spot discard spell to supplement the IOKs, i'd go for thoughtseize than cabal therapy..i'd prefer cabal therapy in decks that run creatures that can afford the sacrifice(bloodghasts) or want the sacrifice(abyssal persecutor)..

[OmniStrata]

i'm not saying it won't work, because IF you can time it correctly, then you might nab 2 cards from your opponent's hand..

but if i were to add another spot discard spell to supplement the IOKs, i'd go for thoughtseize than cabal therapy..i'd prefer cabal therapy in decks that run creatures that can afford the sacrifice(bloodghasts) or want the sacrifice(abyssal persecutor)..

I'd go with Duress to prevent lifeloss. Pox can kill any creature that's not Tajuru Preserver or Sigarda Host of Herons.

[zenitramleirdag]

here's where i am right now:

4 inquisition of kozilek
4 hymn to tourach
4 sinkhole
4 smallpox
1 pox
4 innocent blood

4 liliana of the veil

1 nether spirit

3 cursed scroll

1 nether void
2 night of soul's betrayal



4 dark ritual
4 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 mishra's factory
4 wasteland
13 swamp


sideboard:
2 pithing needle
1 thoughtseize
1 trinisphere
3 engineered plague
3 ensnaring bridge
2 toxic deluge
2 extirpate
1 surgical extraction


i'm thinking of cutting an innocent blood and a scroll for 2 tombstalkers, what do you guys think?(especially you omnistrata, bcoz if i remember correctly, we are running almost simillar lists)
i would like to add more gravehate but i just don't know what to cut..meta in this store i sometimes go to is swarming with SnT and stoneblade variants so i'm thinking of replacing thoughtseize with another needle to neuter sneak attack..

i might enter a local tourney here tomorrow with this list..
i'm running a 61-decklist..

[Hardcore]

1 cc spot discard has the function of disrupting the opponent's game and gather important information. They do not provide card advantage. Therapy is way to get the first and the last, but at cost of not being an efficient way to get information.
You could focus on improving this of course, just don't forget time spent disrupting is time not spent winning.

[Hardcore]

Delirium skeins. I am considering this for two slots in my the rack/creature build.

[GradStudent]

Hey everyone,
New to legacy here. Just wondering how Pox stands compared to other top tier decks out there. I am looking to get back into magic and happen to have a playset of wastelands, and I do like me some discard. Thinking about starting to build a competitive Pox deck (mono black). It does seem to have some cards I can switch out for a modern version too. I did browse this thread and saw that pack rat build http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12858&iddeck=94287 which looked like fun. But no one else seemed to comment on it. Was looking to hear from some of you more experience pox players on where to start off if I do choose to go this route. Thanks for your help!

[Teluin]

Hey everyone,
New to legacy here. Just wondering how Pox stands compared to other top tier decks out there. I am looking to get back into magic and happen to have a playset of wastelands, and I do like me some discard. Thinking about starting to build a competitive Pox deck (mono black). It does seem to have some cards I can switch out for a modern version too. I did browse this thread and saw that pack rat build http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12858&iddeck=94287 which looked like fun. But no one else seemed to comment on it. Was looking to hear from some of you more experience pox players on where to start off if I do choose to go this route. Thanks for your help!

As of right now, Pox isn't a top tier deck. Who knows how good it becomes when Waste Not sees print, but the deck is fun as heck to play and CAN win.

[Hardcore]

Pox has not won a big tourney (IIRC) but that is more because few play it than because it is bad. Tier 1 deck it may not be, but then that is a highly suspicious concept in my opinion. It's more a rock-paper-scissor thing. It kills combo, and have decent games vs many other decks. Merfolk and goblins are perhaps the hardest match ups.