@zenitra
I'd run Tombstalkers again if I didn't use Ensnaring Bridge in the board.
@Hardcore
Time spent disrupting is winning actually. Or in other opinions, not-losing. We're not combo or Aggro. We can't kill them on turn 2-3 consistently and we don't drop threats each turn to kill the opponent.
The "proper" Pox game in my opinion is when a judge or spectator walks past my table and notices my single threat and an enemy's empty board and hand, that means I did it right.
pox aint a tier 1 deck but it sure has some lopsided matches against many creature decks in the format especially if you tailor your sideboard for a specific meta..its strong against delver and other fair decks..one good thing about pox is there is almost no effective way to sideboard against it because it attacks all angles at the same time..but i would say the most fun thing about pox is the brewing..Originally Posted by GradStudent
the modern version of pox is also getting good results..it usually runs rack and/or afflictions..
That's the hilarious "complaint" I get at the local tournament. They look at their extra 15 and they mumble or write on their own faces, "how do I board against this thing?"
Some of the goofy ones use Anti-Yard against me but aside from Nether Spirit, my deck has no GY weakness. I'm not Dredge or Loam where I need the yard to murder you. Being almost totally creatureless also hurts decks that pack any form of creature removal. I think the only threat most people can board in against me is Pithing Needle.
@ Gradstudent: I think Pox is one of the worst decks to start with in Legacy: once you're hooked you will want to try every build possible, because of the brewingAnd this will cost you a lot! But it is fun, and every win will be with a grin
On Pack Rat: I think the only one here who ever played the card is Hardcore, and his build isn't you average Pox-build.
My ideas on Pack Rat. Originally, I'd think it costs too much, but Cursed Scroll is essentially the same mana cost for ability use. The scroll for me is a defensive mainstay that dodges my own Pox effects. Pack Rat is a chump blocking token generator that will overrun your enemies in short time. I guess the beauty is that if you kill the card named Pack Rat, the tokens keep all abilities. The other thing is that normally, top decked Dark Rituals stink, but with either C. Scroll or the Rat, you still get use out of it.@ Gradstudent: I think Pox is one of the worst decks to start with in Legacy: once you're hooked you will want to try every build possible, because of the brewing
On Pack Rat: I think the only one here who ever played the card is Hardcore, and his build isn't you average Pox-build.
Another tourney! I got the bye in round 4 due to drops. 2 wins (including bye), 2 losses. Let's look... Deck was the same as before, except I changed my sideboard to Leyline of the Voids and a single Relic of Progenitus. [cantripping like a boss]
Game 1 Round 1, UW Stoneforge. A familiar foe.
He draws the tits and after I [on the draw] Innocent Blood his first SF Mystic, his second one hits the field. He manages to keep it alive by flashing in a Vendillion Clique in response to my smallpox. I'm not getting the LD I need to prevent activation and the Mystic brings in the Batterskull that eventually kills me. It had to fight under an E. Plague naming Germ and Night of Souls Betrayal buying me an extra turn but it wasn't enough.
Game 1 Round 2, sadness.
I board in both Needles for SFM and or Jitte OR Jace. On turn 1, I drop a Pithing Needle, think for a second, and name Jace. I never see my other needle. He Pithing Needles my Mishra's and Liliana. Dystopia manages to kill 2 SFMs. I use one to kill one, even with a snap caster in play. And then when he plays a second one, my 2nd Dystopia kills it as well, I don't pay the upkeep for either but damn it's worth it. He gets a 3rd SFM [damn Brainstorm and me not getting any LD] and manages to stick a Batterskull Germ holding a Jitte.Even with 2 E. plagues on merfolk [for TNN] and Germ, I die to a 3/3 germ dual wielding a Bskull+Jitte.
Game 2 Round 1. UWB Landstill variant. wtf?!
Then it hits me, he's using a Creeping Tar Pit. I ensure 2 Inqisitions hit both his opening hand Standstills and Wasteland prevents him from casting either. [2 Wastelands, draw the tits baby]. After a LOONG grind of several draw pass, he's getting lands, but no threats, and I'm drawing business, with only 1 swamp and 1 wasteland on the field. Eventually he kills me with an unblockable Tar Pit. Crucible ended up burying me long before the fatal blow.
Game 2 Round 2. Leyline of the Void >> Crucible.
I open with a Leyline. After some turns of Hand Disruption, he sticks a Detention Sphere on turn 4 on Leyline. I had a Dystopia waiting for it and kill it getting my Leyline back leaving him a single fetchland in his yard with Crucible in play. He had a Notion Thief boarded in but it never hits the field. A mob of 1 Mishra's Factory and 1 Creeping Tar Pit leave me with little to do. I notice that this game, I'm not drawing mana, despite 24 lands. My games tend to be swingy like that. I never get enough lands, or draw too many lands not enough spells. Such is Pox. I die to his lands in sorrow due to the deck not topdecking for me.
Game 3 Round 1. I don't know what it is.
He's on the play. I see a Taiga hit the field. I Wasteland him. He plays a Phyrexian Tower. I still don't know deck what it is. I play a Mishra's Factory on turn 2 using it to play Cursed Scroll. Here's where the fun begins. I top deck 2 Sinkholes back to back. I use Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth with Mishra's to kill his Swamp and his Tower. He scoops after I topdeck and play a 2nd wasteland. He seems irritated. I still don't know the deck.
Game 3 Round 2. We get into a long explanation on why table shuffling isn't really shuffling and he explains to me that if a snarky opponent in a national grade tournament calls over a judge, the answer is "I'm counting my cards." You don't say "I'm evenly distributing my sideboard". I never knew nor cared about such things but to him, pile shuffling is an unnecessary waste of time which could get you in trouble. Never 'finish' shuffling with the pile/table shuffle. New food for my thought. At first I thought I offended him in someway cause his manner of speech was condescending but since I had no reason to care, I'll just keep the idea in my head. Don't table shuffle etc.
He's on the play with a Forest and Veteran Explorer. Jund Nic Fit. Blam. I'm afraid. I didn't board in anything and he follows through with a Sensei's top. I try to 'feast' off the V. Exp. triggers with Innocent Blood followed by Sinkhole. Another V. Explorer eats an Innocent Blood giving me a Hymn to Tourach. No dice. Despite the extra mana, my spells are too small and eventually, he sticks a Garruk [the version where +1 gives him a 3/3 beast, phark]. Backed by his own Liliana of the Veil. 9 damage of Beasts disembowel me. He's a good sport.
Game 3, Round 3. I get Needles ready for his Planeswalkers. He Abrupt Decays my opening Scroll, which sucked. The game gets very grindy with lots of draw 'pass' turns. Eventually, he sticks a Pyrostatic Pillar. Great card for low cmc [which is me] but he keeps redirecting the damage to Liliana. He kills her with it, eventually but my 2nd Liliana I'm more careful with. I draw into the Cursed Scroll after so many turns, after he Abrupt Decays my 2nd Liliana. The scroll and my plentiful mana count keeps my hand empty and eventually kills him. He knows the match up supposed to be in his favor but luck can kill just as a good deck can. Win.
New lesson. LEYLINE DEFEATS Nic Fit! It stops P. Fire and won't allow the Veteran Explorer Trigger. I didn't side in the Leyline but now I'm kicking myself in the head to my ignorance. 4 Leyline, 1 Relic of Progenitus. I did keep in Dystopia for Deathrite Shamans. He also had this unusual 2/4 3cmc green creature I've never seen before. Courser of Kruphix. Interesting, but it didn't win him games.
Round 4, 3 people dropped and I got the bye. Yay.
A burn player got 1st place. I need a 20 card sideboard now lol.
Current SB:
2 Pithing Needle
2 Dystopia
3 Engineered Plague
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Relic of Progenitus
Wth do I do to deal with Burn?
Omni, I think your deck is too defensive.
Too many answers after sideboard.
Try stillmoon cavalier.
As for explorer, you should chetryck oracle.
Hardcore, I think your deck is too offensive.
Too many threats and little disruption.
Stillmoon requires too much mana and isn't safe from my own Poxing. At least Cursed Scroll is immune despite also needing mana.
I don't own explorer but I didn't see Nic Fit as a GY deck hence the forgetfulness. P. Fire does too little if the healing is taken into account. Live and learn. And I'll take that win, good fortune and all.
There's another Pox player there running Loam Pox. When he told me that Big Pox isn't run due to Liliana being so good I ask him if Liliana can hack down a 3rd of your enemy's life total. I'd need a God-card to consider my 1 singleton Pox being removed. It'd have to do more than 1/3 life damage in some way lol.
Vs burn decks I've 2 nether voids MD and 1 in my SB, sometimes 1 zuran orb..but is a terrible MU for pox..we known...
One reason for that is, of course, that most pox decks want have board control. Add to that they have no fast threats and the burn player thus have all the time he need to draw spells.
The weakness is the low mana curve. Stuff like chalice will hurt it, as will trinisphere when used conjunction with land destruction. One important point be careful of: burn can empty their hand quickly. This mean any hate must be deployed as early as possible. Dark ritual - chalice for one on turn one may seem wasting one mana but consider that that the cost of winning.
Land Destruction + Sun Droplet should put the burn player far enough behind. Usually, they run 19 lands or less so a good amount of LD or virtual LD is needed. Trisphere is good, as is chalice. I'm a fan of Sphere of Resistance. Chalice hurts you but you amplify Sphere's power by running Sinkhole and Smallpox. 1 extra mana for you is easy since Burn doesn't have the time to play Wastelands or Stone Rain.
So after getting my butt handed to me by a few Omni-Tell/Sneak & Show/Belcher players, I had to adjust my tool box build into something much more streamlined. It didn't really change my interaction with a turn one Show and Tell, but it does help me a lot if I'm on the play with this list. Let me know how you guys feel about this:
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Cursed Scroll
3 Dark Ritual
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Innocent Blood
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
2 The Rack
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Mishra's Factory
7 Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Dust Bowl
2 Duress
2 Tombstalker
1 Infernal Tutor
1 Toxic Deluge
//Sideboard
SB: 2 Engineered Plague
SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Dystopia
SB: 1 Memoricide
So a few changes to the main board. Obviously the first thing to was the Stalker. There are a lot of moments where he would be a valuable blocker against Canadian Thresh, but against other match ups, he'd be StP eventually. So I decided to go with main deck Tombstalkers since while my opponent may still have their removal spells game one, there's match ups where my window of opportunity to attack would validate the 10-15 damage I would get out of him before it was eventually dealt with. Comparing that to Stalker I would only get 4-6 against decks with StP or if they're really aggressive with their Ooze. Against a combo deck, I wanted to beat them before they would draw into their win-con in game one.
I dropped most of the artifacts in the main board since I felt the green splash was such a better robust deck against control and it's hard to emulate what it does with just sensei's top/worlds/fetchlands/crime/dark blast/stalker/entomb. It wasn't quite the same using this compared to Sylvan Library and the Loam package.
Instead, it allowed me to use a pair of Duresses in the main deck against combo or if I'm on the play an Aether Vial. I also included The Rack as a low maintenance win condition in case my Scrolls get Revokered or Null Rodded.
Since Crucible of Worlds was dropped along with the fetchlands, I wanted something to do with all the extra land I would draw, so I decided Dust Bowl was practical way of supplementing what the deck was already trying to do.
The side board received a complete overhaul compared to my last list. Learning from my experiences dealing with combo in Modern, I felt that 3 Extripate/Extraction effects weren't a bad idea against very linear combo decks with 1 or 2 key pieces. With Duress in the main, I could now have flexibility beyond what IoK would've given me.
While I know some of you guys might be looking at that singleton Memoricide and think it's too narrow, I needed a card that can lock certain decks. Against Miracles for example, I could name Jace while still having Bridges to deal with their Angel tokens. I could name wishes against High Tide/Omni-Tell. Anything that can lock their games, rather than seeing them peel an answer into their top-deck
Ensnaring Bridge against Show/Sneak/Reanimator. I would stall until drawing into answers into Extraction/Cide.
Two Engineered Plauge in addition to Night of Souls' in the main board to deal with the usual vial strategies and elf combo.
Dystopia was also finally added to allow me to deal Leylines, D&T, Canadian Thresh and Elves again. I needed additional ways to deal with treats beyond just 1-for-1s, especially if I have to mull down to 5 in some cases.
If I had money to burn, I'd probably upgrade to the Loam Version of Pox, but let me know how you guys feel about this adjustment for the MBC version.
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A fourth ritual to quickly play an answer to goblin Warren, or turn one Liliana.
I agree: play four DR, period. And why the fetches without SDT? Question; how does the tutor work for you?
Actually those are dropped, so that was a c/p error on me.
I don't know, but it feels horrible top decking into rituals, even when I'm ahead on board. I dropped 1 copy in place for the tutor and it works out much better in a larger sample size of matches. Not only that, I rather on the play, turn 1 duress/IoK, than turn 1 Lili against possibly a Show & Tell/Omni-tell or even to a first turn kill Belcher. Especially against Miracles, I'd probably want to remove their Top before they manage to cast it or a Vial in the D&T match up. Again, G1, turn 1 Lili isn't always the best thing to cast.
Top decking into the tutor saved me a lot whenever it pops up. When they're crippled, I can tutor up a Tombstalker and start up the clock, or whatever else I may need to lock them out. If I'm behind on board, I could pull Toxic or whatever silver bullets I have from my sideboard G2-3.
I don't understand why people want to play Pox and try to drag out the games in this meta. I understand you want to put them in a top deck mode, but the number of turns it takes for Pox to finish it's plate just becomes detrimental after G1 when they could draw into their own silver bullets against us. Ratchet Bombs/EE/Pithing Needles/Null Rod are a thing G2-3, right? That's not even mentioning Deathrite Shaman or StP on our Nether Spirit.
I'd much rather just try and kill them asap with Tombstalkers (since they provide a better clock over Spirits G1) and plan accordingly for the SB plan G2-3. Even if Tomb Stalkers are switched out to make room for Bridges, having The Rack as plan B still works if they further try and lock us out with Null Rod/Needle. The meta's really fast right now so I don't see why we can't just evolve Pox rather than using the same stock list people net deck off of Reid Duke. Meta's changed a lot since then and I feel that we can modify Pox to be more tempo oriented, rather than just hope we top deck better than they do.
It wouldn't surprise me if the lists start evolving closer to 8 Rack in Modern.
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The reason I stated play four is because of the terrible topdeck: you want to have one as fast of possible. After turn two or three it can help, but often you would something else. Dropping DR is even better :-) I am trying Bg build sar the moment and therefor never play DR. I am also looking for eats to implement Dark Stage-combo.
It is not unreasonable to drop dr altogether. Add two swamp to compensate for the mana loss, and perhaps play four duress?
Those kind of Pox-decks already exsist
I'm sure it does, just it hasn't been able to go toe to toe with Tier 1 strategies yet.Those kind of Pox-decks already exsist
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Has anyone some testing with Waste Not yet? My Pox list is in disarray and I haven't found the motivation to build it into anything relevant currently, but I feel once that card lands, it'll provide everything I've wanted in a 8 rack discard brew. I'd like to be able to hit the ground running as soon as M15 comes out. Anybody got delicious play testing they'd share?
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