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Thread: [Primer/Deck] Stax

  1. #41
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Stax

    I have a few comments/questions.

    4 flagstones for 4 plains? I would think you have too few plains for 4 flagstones to be worthwhile. I personally run 3 flagstones 5 plains.

    Running humility and magus: This seems like an odd mix. Humility tries to punish creatures for their abilities. Magus has an ability that punishes players for playing numerous creatures. Humility makes magus worthless. I run humility but use Elspeth as a win condition as it feeds stax and is good with humility out. (not as good with ghostly prison I know) I would think you would be running O-Ring main instead of humility to deal with annoying things.

  2. #42
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Stax

    I've been playing around with this list. I don't like humility here. It's a strong card, but with only 12 white sources I'm having trouble casting it. Is it worth running (as a four of!) even if it is uncastable from time to time? Also, why stony silence over null rod?
    Last edited by clavio; 06-10-2013 at 10:14 AM.

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  5. #45
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Stax

    It's gotta be Ghostly Prison, it's the only prison that makes sense ha ha

  6. #46
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Stax

    Using the typical Smokestack/Armageddon/Wasteland, but no Crucible. Seems kinda odd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burton
    What does that mean? Huh? "China is here." I don't even know what the hell that means. All I know is that this Lo Pan character comes out of thin air in the middle of a goddamn alley while his buddies are flying around on wires cutting everybody to shreds, and he just STANDS there! Waiting for me to drive my truck straight through him, with LIGHT coming out of his mouth!

  7. #47

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarky87 View Post
    Using the typical Smokestack/Armageddon/Wasteland, but no Crucible. Seems kinda odd.
    He cut Crucible in favor of being able to board into the RiP Helm combo for his win condition. I'm not sure what to make of this strategy.

  8. #48
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Stax

    I was running the combo in the board there for a little bit before I shelved the deck. But I never felt I wanted/needed to cut Crucible. Even with the combo, sometimes turn 2 Crucible, turn 3 Smokestack just got there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burton
    What does that mean? Huh? "China is here." I don't even know what the hell that means. All I know is that this Lo Pan character comes out of thin air in the middle of a goddamn alley while his buddies are flying around on wires cutting everybody to shreds, and he just STANDS there! Waiting for me to drive my truck straight through him, with LIGHT coming out of his mouth!

  9. #49

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarky87 View Post
    I was running the combo in the board there for a little bit before I shelved the deck. But I never felt I wanted/needed to cut Crucible. Even with the combo, sometimes turn 2 Crucible, turn 3 Smokestack just got there.
    I wish I could report similarly. I've actually been somewhat disappointed with landing Crucible/Waste "lock" recently. I love the MB Suppresion Fields from this list, I'm thinking about giving that a go.

  10. #50

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by art138 View Post
    Ghostly Prison, perhaps?
    Tabernacle effects?

  11. #51

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenCid View Post
    Tabernacle effects?
    Yeah, I like Tabernacle in the board, but I was just suggesting that Ghostly Prison might have gotten misreported as Spectral Prison.

  12. #52

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Stax

    Sure it is a misreported ghostly prison. Moreover a blue card with just moxes as blue mana source doesnt make sense.
    And why should you run tabernacle effects in side? I think that they are pretty sinergic!

  13. #53

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Stax

    I've got a brilliant idea to add another $200 to the deck: what about Eureka? Stax kinda struggles on tempo a bit, as it always has to play one big piece at a time (so it gets blown out by Daze/Pierce), but Eureka is like a super Show and Tell for the deck, potentially allowing you to catch up on "lost" turns. And if you don't run against blue, then it's like an auto-win (supposing you have a couple lock pieces and PW'ers).


    4 City of Traitors
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 Plains
    2 Karakas
    4 Savannah
    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Wasteland
    4 Mishra's Factory
    4 Mox Diamond

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Crucible of Worlds
    4 Trinisphere
    4 Humility
    3 Eureka

    4 Elspeth, Knight Errant
    3 Gideon Jura
    2 Garruk Relentless
    2 Karn Liberated

    O Rings and RiP in the board. Just been shuffling it to myself so far - I'd like Garruk to be something stronger, and Crucible to be just another lock piece, but maybe it's strong enough on its own. I'd also like not to be blown out by Gaddock Teeg...
    Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
    Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?

  14. #54
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Stax

    @frogger42 - I think the Eureka idea is somewhat interesting, but it would most likely end up hurting more than helping. I haven't played Legacy for a long time, but blue is fairly prevalent from what little I've played. I still like Eureka though. Fun card.

    Back to the thread - I've been checking out some of these Stax-type threads over the last two or three weeks, and I have to wonder the reasons why this isn't played more often. I mean, I realize it probably takes a considerable amount of skill and one sadistic bastard to play this kind of deck, but it seems like it would have a good amount of game against most decks. Is there a reason below the surface that I'm not seeing which makes people steer clear of this kind of strategy?

    Also, I've seen White, White/Green, and Green strategies in this same vein. Is this a matter of preference on color, card choices, or is it generally accepted that one is superior to the others? And while I'm on that topic, is this thread suitable for discussion on all variants of Stax or just the white-based strategies?

    Thanks!

  15. #55

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by MightyPenguin007 View Post
    Back to the thread - I've been checking out some of these Stax-type threads over the last two or three weeks, and I have to wonder the reasons why this isn't played more often. I mean, I realize it probably takes a considerable amount of skill and one sadistic bastard to play this kind of deck, but it seems like it would have a good amount of game against most decks. Is there a reason below the surface that I'm not seeing which makes people steer clear of this kind of strategy?
    I think the main problem with the deck is it doesn't play Brainstorm. Really. It doesn't have any serious filter (some run Sylvan Library, but you run so few shuffle effects it's not generally worth it), so it lacks a lot of consistency. The manabase is also... hit or miss, to put it. Sometimes you get Sol lands when you need them; sometimes you don't. Sometimes you get all Sol lands and can't play your most relevant spells - that's happened to me a lot. So it's not the most consistent deck out there, even though the prison strategy and elements are especially strong.

    Not to toot my own horn, but I think UB Stax is the most powerful version. My list ran Intuition + Tolaria West for tutoring, and white simply doesn't have access to those kinds of effects. Also, add in that Abyss is like a Smokestack with haste (and for your opponent's relevant threats, ie creatures), plus Jace, and you have a deck that's a bit faster and more flexible than traditional Wx Stax. Tezz, Agent of Bolas is probably the single best PW'er printed, except you have to build your deck around him - which is what the deck is. Now, add that you need Jace x3-4 and Abyss pref x4, and you have a deck that very few people are likely to build. So very uncommon.

    Also, the prevalence of Thalia absolutely wrecks this deck, any version of it, and is much more common than Teeg (who's just a kill switch). Abrupt Decay lessens the value of getting down a Chalice @ 1 Turn 1, though it's still a strong play.

    It's not actually too difficult to play, you're pretty much restricted to running down 1 prison piece at a time. You can play mind games against Force of Will by holding back your more relevant piece and letting them Force something like Ghostly Prison. I'm going to try Eureka anyway, as it seems like it might blow out the non-U strategies, and I'll work on it eventually. I like that the only non-synergy is Trinisphere + Mox Diamond, as opposed to Ghostly Prison and Planeswalkers that usually shows up (your opponent doesn't need to pay to bash your Elspeth). Thanks for your thoughts, and will let you guys know how it goes at the weekly. Go proxy it up on MWS or Cockatrice and give it a whirl. People will hate playing against you.
    -Frogger

    EDIT: Another card, Cavern of Souls, can also lessen Chalice's effect, but it's mainly those other cards I mentioned. Cavern tends to show in Goblins, against which Chalice is terrible. SB'ing with this deck is probably the hardest part of playing it.
    Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
    Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?

  16. #56

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Stax

    Eureka has got to be one of the worst ideas. You play a ton of lock pieces to stop them from casting spells, then you give them an outlet to put all their permanents into play for free, completely bypassing all of your lock pieces?

  17. #57

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by HammerAndSickled View Post
    Eureka has got to be one of the worst ideas. You play a ton of lock pieces to stop them from casting spells, then you give them an outlet to put all their permanents into play for free, completely bypassing all of your lock pieces?
    Noted. It's also a way to break tempo with a slow slow deck and catch up. It's also a "I don't need to play this if I'm winning" kind of card, because everything's castable. It's probably best if you have Humility in hand, as that will muck up most of the cards your opponent is likely to play.
    Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
    Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?

  18. #58
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by MightyPenguin007 View Post
    @frogger42 - I think the Eureka idea is somewhat interesting, but it would most likely end up hurting more than helping. I haven't played Legacy for a long time, but blue is fairly prevalent from what little I've played. I still like Eureka though. Fun card.

    Back to the thread - I've been checking out some of these Stax-type threads over the last two or three weeks, and I have to wonder the reasons why this isn't played more often. I mean, I realize it probably takes a considerable amount of skill and one sadistic bastard to play this kind of deck, but it seems like it would have a good amount of game against most decks. Is there a reason below the surface that I'm not seeing which makes people steer clear of this kind of strategy?

    Also, I've seen White, White/Green, and Green strategies in this same vein. Is this a matter of preference on color, card choices, or is it generally accepted that one is superior to the others? And while I'm on that topic, is this thread suitable for discussion on all variants of Stax or just the white-based strategies?

    Thanks!
    HammeredandSickled has pointed out the major reasons why Eureka are bad.

    As to why this deck isn't played often: Being on the play is incredibly important. Stax can just fall behind and has a hard time catching up without armageddon. Winning game 1 just so you can be on the play for game 3 is really important. If you lose game 1 then your are at a big disadvantage. Scariest things to see are first turn vial or lackey. Even when you get a hand that let's you first turn chalice/3sphere and then crucible/smokestack, you may just draw cards you can't play or you don't get wasteland/geddon and eventually just have to sac smokestack and the game is reset except your opponent has been drawing a lot of cards and sculpting a good hand to come back while you probably dont' have anything left.

    Also, I don't think this deck takes much skill. It requires patience and good mulligans. It's like a simple combo deck that takes 20-30 minutes to win a game if your opponent really doesn't want to give in. Can you play chalice/3sphere and/or crucible/smokestack on turn 1-3 and hope every hand has armageddon? No? Then you mulligan or generally lose.

    I personally like mono-white as I love playing Humility and Elspeth.

  19. #59

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by SteakKnife View Post
    HammeredandSickled has pointed out the major reasons why Eureka are bad.
    Not really, not that I've noticed. I get why it'd be bad to run it in the traditional Stax build, as those lock pieces are more prison-y, and prevent your opponent from landing things. But something like Humility, or Karn, will disrupt your opponent's entire gameplan, plus give you a PW'er to win with every turn. I think the pieces for this kind of prison will be different, will likely all be PW'ers, and will probably not be things like Trinisphere or Smokestack. Guys like Karn and Vraska can go 1-for-1 with what your opponent plays on the Eureka board, and still remain on the table to generate card and board advantage. I think that's where this should go.

    I just played it tonight and I'm still working out the manabase. I went 3-1, but really 2-2 with it; the goblins player was so blown away by it, he scooped to me just to play the deck himself. I think it might have potential. It doesn't not have potential right now. I think I'll take the discussion on the Dev Board, as it's probably going to be pretty different from Stax, and from what I've been hearing, you guys aren't really too stoked about it. Thanks tho.
    Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
    Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?

  20. #60
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    Hi i will try this list but i have a difficult to set a sb. Can you help me? What you think about a md list? Thanks

    // Deck: Prison Stax (60)

    // Lands
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    2 Crystal Vein
    3 Flagstones of Trokair
    4 Mishra's Factory
    5 Plains
    4 Wasteland

    // Creatures
    3 Magus of the Tabernacle

    // Sorceries
    4 Armageddon

    // Enchantments
    4 Ghostly Prison
    3 Oblivion Ring

    // Artifacts
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Crucible of Worlds
    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Smokestack
    3 Tangle Wire
    3 Trinisphere

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