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Thread: [Deck]BUx Reanimator

  1. #2601
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    Re: [Deck]BUx Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by crowe_1 View Post
    I’m curious why no one has tried Xantid Swarm too now that you mention it. Works for Storm.
    A number of very good Storm players have been having success with Xantid Swarm, but I've never liked it because it's only good against opposing hands with one piece of interaction—an unlikely scenario in a postboard game. Think of it this way: if the opponent has countermagic or removal, it does nothing; if your opponent doesn't, it does nothing. Sure, you'll strip out one piece of interaction with it (if you're lucky), but we're a combo deck. We can't expect our opponents to keep a hand on the strength of a singleton Force or Swords.

    Hope just feels worse in every way: it has to connect, it has to dodge Karakas (which is already a danger for this deck), and it can get Pithing Needled.
    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    If you diversified your cantrips, a chalice wouldn't be a liability.
    Quote Originally Posted by chunderbucket View Post
    You want interesting, nonbinary games? Don't make your deck so reliant on cantrips, like pretty much every above deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Almost everyone plays decks that are strictly worse 75s than the top decks - which most people could sleeve up if they wanted to, they just elected not to.

  2. #2602

    Re: [Deck]BUx Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt-Qc View Post
    I doubt Girapur does anything in this era of Strix.
    Fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    A number of very good Storm players have been having success with Xantid Swarm, but I've never liked it because it's only good against opposing hands with one piece of interaction—an unlikely scenario in a postboard game. Think of it this way: if the opponent has countermagic or removal, it does nothing; if your opponent doesn't, it does nothing. Sure, you'll strip out one piece of interaction with it (if you're lucky), but we're a combo deck. We can't expect our opponents to keep a hand on the strength of a singleton Force or Swords.
    Swarm, though, dodges Flusterstorm, Spell Pierce, probably Daze, random stuff like Spell Snare and Stubborn Denial, and keeps Surgical stuck in the opponent’s hand (assuming a single turn combo from us). It’s only really FoW and Counterspell that can hit Swarm on the stack, and UBx decks (which is what Swarm would probably be best against) don’t typically run Counterspell.

    I do get your argument as I’ve felt similarly about the “can’t be countered” clause on Abrupt Decay (ie, they’ll just counter the combo spell instead most of the time). If Xantid does end up just eating a one-for-one in practice it might not be worth running in lieu of other options.

  3. #2603
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    Re: [Deck]BUx Reanimator

    Hope of Ghirapur is just a bad Xantid Swarm, its relevance is in Modern. Green isn't a stretch for us, so I don't know why it'd be considered.

    But even with Xantid Swarm I'm skeptical. It works in storm because you swing in and then win the game. Not a psuedo-win the game like a turn 1 Griselbrand, but hard-win onto the next game. So even a turn 1 Xantid Swarm (dodging the Spell Peirce or Flusterstorm in their hand) means you get to dodge interaction on turn 2 to land something scary, but that's not game over. There's so many Diabolic Edicts running around, and that's just in black. The same threats in bounce, Swords, Karakas still plague us. And at least locally I've seen an uptick in Nihil Spellbomb out of the side, for what I don't know, but it has legs against us, so you'll see it.

    So I'm not saying Xantid Swarm is a dud, but I'd be interested to see what cards are coming out to make room for it, because we're tight on space as is and most cards are a better fit for our game plan.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  4. #2604

    Re: [Deck]BUx Reanimator

    Well, again, it wouldn’t be good against white because they leave in their removal. Edict out of Black decks would hit the Swarm and miss the Griselbrand/whatever most of the time assuming you combo’d already. And with regard to the slot it takes, people have been finding room to fit Carpet of Flowers if all things, so where there’s a will there’s a way. Haha.

    Regardless I’m not running Swarm as I don’t run green. Just seemed like a card we could use so I was curious why I’d never seen it in Reanimator list, even back in the day when UB was the only serious version.

  5. #2605
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    Re: [Deck]BUx Reanimator

    Reanimator is in a hard spot because it's extra hard to get a creature into play these days, but even then it's just regular hard to keep it in play. Xantid stops counterspells, but so does Thoughtseize.
    Like I said, Xantid attacks once and wins you the game in Storm, and I'm wary of strategies that require this much investment to solve half the problem.
    Fingers crossed for another dumb mistake for the casuals that accidentally gives us another creature to use.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  6. #2606

    Re: [Deck]BUx Reanimator

    We are long overdue for a new playable creature. Theres been a couple in the last few years that just missed the mark like Void Winnower and Archon of Valor’s Reach, but the last truly viable one was what? Ashen Rider?

  7. #2607

    Re: [Deck]BUx Reanimator

    Do we not play Chancellor of thevAnnex anymore? Seems like it will deal with a lot of the t1/t2 graveyard hate or at least slow our opponents down to land a griselbrand. Another situation I find it handy are the brainstorms in response to our discards.

  8. #2608
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    Re: [Deck]BUx Reanimator

    It depends on the kind of build you're going for. Some UB decks go fast and play Lotus Petal and Daze and would want Chancellor. Other builds go resilient and spend a few turns sculpting before going off.
    RB decks have only one mode, to go fast, so you see a Chancellor there, but we have the choice so it's not mandatory.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  9. #2609

    Re: [Deck]BUx Reanimator

    I just got back into UB Reanimator and currently trying to figure out my game plan, especially sideboarding.

    I thinking for games where I start first, I will try to go a speed build. So, +4 Chancellor of Annex, Minus the non-griselbramd creatures. And add in 3 Echoing Truth. If I can't do a T1 or T2 fatty I will use discards to sculp the game a little.

    For games where I go second, I will try to be more reactive. +3 Echoing Truth, +3 Spell Pierce and +1 Ponder and use the stock list creatures.

    I am def not going to splash green at the moment. Any tips and comments are welcome.

    I play in a Grixis Control, Delver, Tempo and Lands heavy meta.



    My list is:

    (15) lands
    4 polluted delta
    3 Misty Rainforest
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    1 USea
    1 Darkslick Shores
    2 Swamp
    3 Island

    Instant (15)
    4 FoW
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Daze
    4 Entomb

    Sorcery (20)
    4 Careful Study
    2 Ponder
    3 Thoughtseize
    1 Collective Brutality
    4 Reanimate
    4 Exhume
    2 Stitch Together

    Creatures (7)
    3 Griselbrand
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    1 Sire of Insanity
    1 Seismic Skyswallower
    1 Blazing Archon

    Others (3)
    3 Lotus Petal

  10. #2610

    Re: [Deck]BUx Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by crowe_1 View Post
    We are long overdue for a new playable creature. Theres been a couple in the last few years that just missed the mark like Void Winnower and Archon of Valor’s Reach, but the last truly viable one was what? Ashen Rider?
    On this topic, I wonder what sort of creature can top the options we have now. Are there any particular weaknesses that we are looking for a creature to fill? I feel like our reanimation targets are close to as good as they get right now and our problems are mainly with the GY hate.

  11. #2611

    Re: [Deck]BUx Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by RNGesus View Post
    On this topic, I wonder what sort of creature can top the options we have now. Are there any particular weaknesses that we are looking for a creature to fill? I feel like our reanimation targets are close to as good as they get right now and our problems are mainly with the GY hate.
    Maybe a creature that has "This creature cannot be exiled from anywhere."?

  12. #2612

    Re: [Deck]BUx Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by Deatheus89 View Post
    Maybe a creature that has "This creature cannot be exiled from anywhere."?
    The power level of such a creature would have to be finely-tuned. Too strong and it would break RB reanimator.

  13. #2613

    Re: [Deck]BUx Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by RNGesus View Post
    The power level of such a creature would have to be finely-tuned. Too strong and it would break RB reanimator.
    I agree. It should definitely be a legendary creature. It think it would be okay as long as it doesn't have shroud/hexproof. And doesn't have a crazy ability like griselbrand. Maybe just a big beater. It'll introduce some interesting decisions when it comes to sideboarding etc.

    Also, I feel like taking out Daze in G1 and sub them for spell pierce. In G1, I am not sure if I am going to be on the play or draw. If I do go on the draw, Daze is terrible if I cast it on T1 and not be successful in reanimating a target (I am effectively down 2 lands) OR if I use it in response to some disruption spell like TS. A better option might be to just use 3 Griselbrands and 4 Chancellor of the Annex.

    I will sub in Daze if my game plan is to go fast and if I am on the play. Then, it'll shut out FoWs.

    Another topic I was going to explore is if I do want to make the fastest/glass cannon UB reanimator deck, what cards do I need in my sideboard? Seems like the main decisions are:
    - whether to sub in another Lotus Petal
    - whether to sub in a couple of dark rituals

    Are there any other cards I should consider?

    Also, to be able to transfer into a more grindy toolbox kind of UB reanimator. I am considering playing 1-2 spellseekers. 1-2 cabal therapies, extirpates etc. Does this make any sense?

  14. #2614

    Re: [Deck]BUx Reanimator

    How bad is this deck if you don't have USeas but still like playing Force of Will over Unmask (BR)?

    Can you get by with 2 Darkslick Shores, 1 fetchable Watery Grave, and basics?

  15. #2615

    Re: [Deck]BUx Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster View Post
    How bad is this deck if you don't have USeas but still like playing Force of Will over Unmask (BR)?

    Can you get by with 2 Darkslick Shores, 1 fetchable Watery Grave, and basics?
    You certainly can. We aim to go off on T2-3. That land would still come untapped so you shouldn't have much problem. You might just have to play more basics so you have something else to fetch if it gets wasted (which it will).

    Watery grave is a bigger problem since you'll sometimes have to Fetch shock+Throughtseize+Reanimate Griselbrand, which could leave you at 7 life, and thus unable to activate him. That said, I played with watery grave for about a year and never went 0-4 in my weeklies so it's not all that bad but you'll certainly lose a few games.

  16. #2616
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    Re: [Deck]BUx Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster View Post
    How bad is this deck if you don't have USeas but still like playing Force of Will over Unmask (BR)?

    Can you get by with 2 Darkslick Shores, 1 fetchable Watery Grave, and basics?
    I hate to be That Guy, but the answer to that question for almost any Legacy deck is, "Yes, but don't do it unless you have to."

    You definitely will be able to pull through much of the time, but there are matchups in which it will really hurt, especially in this deck and others like it that involve steep life payments to power some of the most crucial plays (e.g. drawing 14 off of Griselbrand to stop an opponent from ending us). If that doesn't bother you or you just want to give the deck a spin to see how it plays, then go for it—but know that there is a significant effect on your viable plays.

    In no way am I happy about the prices of duals. I'd be priced out of the format if I were looking to get into it today (N.B., Wizards, I started in late 2013 with a no-RL-card deck), so don't imagine I can't sympathize. But if it's your jam and you really want to give it a shot, don't let me discourage you.

    You might consider trying out a mono-Black list. Lake of the Dead is spectacular, and maindeck cards like Smallpox, Hymn to Tourach, and some non-graveyard creatures like Pack Rat and Phyrexian Obliterator often really throw people for a loop, especially post-board. EDIT: And Unmask can put your own cards in the 'yard. Just sayin'.
    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    If you diversified your cantrips, a chalice wouldn't be a liability.
    Quote Originally Posted by chunderbucket View Post
    You want interesting, nonbinary games? Don't make your deck so reliant on cantrips, like pretty much every above deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Almost everyone plays decks that are strictly worse 75s than the top decks - which most people could sleeve up if they wanted to, they just elected not to.

  17. #2617

    Re: [Deck]BUx Reanimator

    Hi all,

    Let me know if I am asking questions the wrong way or if those questions are pointless? Can't seem to get a response/discussion going.

  18. #2618
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    Re: [Deck]BUx Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by Deatheus89 View Post
    Hi all,

    Let me know if I am asking questions the wrong way or if those questions are pointless? Can't seem to get a response/discussion going.
    It is difficult to comment on a whole list without some gameplay data behind it. It's your list and your meta, what decks are you having trouble against? What are you stumbling on most often? Sure you can go grindy or you can go fast, each will have their pros and cons to be weighed against your skills and preferences and your relative opponents. But just posting a list and asking 'thoughts?' makes it hard to provide effective feedback.

    What is it you want to discuss?
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  19. #2619

    Re: [Deck]BUx Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    It is difficult to comment on a whole list without some gameplay data behind it. It's your list and your meta, what decks are you having trouble against? What are you stumbling on most often? Sure you can go grindy or you can go fast, each will have their pros and cons to be weighed against your skills and preferences and your relative opponents. But just posting a list and asking 'thoughts?' makes it hard to provide effective feedback.

    What is it you want to discuss?

    My meta seems to be dominated by delver decks, grixis control and lands.

    Gameplan for my Meta
    Because my meta seems to be so heavy Grixis Control and Ux delver decks, I feel like taking out Daze in G1 and sub them for spell pierce. In G1, I am not sure if I am going to be on the play or draw. If I do go on the draw, Daze is terrible if I cast it on T1 and not be successful in reanimating a target (I am effectively down 2 lands) OR if I use it in response to some disruption spell like TS. Also, on the draw, every TS I use just gets a brainstorm in response. A better option might be to just use 3 Griselbrands and 4 Chancellor of the Annex.

    I will sub in Daze if my game plan is to go fast and if I am on the play. Then, it'll shut out FoWs. Is this a valid game plan?

    Fastest Possible UB Reanimator
    What is the fastest possible UB reanimator build? It seems like a combination of decisions below:

    - whether to use a 4th Lotus Petal
    - whether to use a couple of dark rituals

    Are there any other cards I should consider? What could I take out? And do you have a list to point me to?

    More Grindy Gameplan
    For a more grindy UB reanimator gameplan in the same meta, what do you think about spellseeker with a couple of utility cards? e.g. cabal therapy, extirpate
    Are there other cards worth fetching with a spellseeker for UB reanimator?


    Thanks! I hope this makes it easier what I am trying to discuss.

  20. #2620
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    Re: [Deck]BUx Reanimator

    I'm not sure I understand your plan regarding Daze, subbing them out game 1? Only playing them if you're going first? None of that makes sense.
    What are you Dazing on turn 1 that isn't a counterspell in defense of your Reanimate? We're not a control deck, you can't afford to counter their spells just because you can. Our best creature against Grixis Control is Griselbrand drawing into either countermagic or enough gas to reup once they find a way to get him off the field. And since most likely you'll be tapped out, paying 7 life to draw into Spell Peirce is a nonstarter. So yeah Daze has a laundry list of downsides, but short of risking that 5th copy of Force of Will and hoping nobody notices, there isn't much free protection to draw into in a pinch. And if you're talking about expecting a control slugfest post-sideboard, Flusterstorm is better anyway. Reanimator is an A+B combo deck, what they're doing unrelated to your combo is superfluous. Don't get distracted because they cast Brainstorm in response to your Thoughtseize.

    And then not to be cheeky, but the fastest possible UB Reanimator build is just RB Reanimator.
    The tools you gain in blue is Brainstorm and Ponder to sculpt your hand, which is the opposite of fast; and Force of Will and Daze, which while good being free and all, but Unmask is just as effective if the goal is to 'combo' that turn. RB is just better at going fast, so any build I can come up with will sacrifice it's resiliency for speed and also not be as fast. Just a sub-optimal list in all aspects. Yeah more Lotus Petal and Dark Ritual will give you assets to T1 better, but then why play Ponder?

    The super grindy game plans have been aided by Collective Brutality and Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. Spellseeker might play into that, but CMC 3 you're already at our topend curve for a mediocre tutor. And your examples of utility cards, I'm not sure I understand the utility of Cabal Therapy or Extirpate. I'd only consider Cabal Therapy after maxing out on Thoughtseize and Duress first, and then I still think I'm better served with Collective Brutality. Any what role is Extirpate playing? Surgical Extraction has the better cost, and I'd rather play Faerie Macabre when I need to bother with someones graveyard. So I understand the sentiment, but your question doesn't make any sense to me.

    Sorry if that's not more helpful. Reanimator is in a difficult spot, the hate has never been more effective and easier to cast. Most players don't even think about us when constructing a sideboard, we just get stuck in the middle of a venn diagram of hateful splash damage. So even the most perfect build will still be unfavorable against most of the top decks.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

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