Where does that get you though? With 5 life left reanimate is a dead card, the mana is fairly constricted without petals. If you have a land drop you go to 2 mana -> entomb tidespout -> petal + exhume -> then need petal #2 to bounce and then hold up a cantrip on his turn? Looking at your list in face of karakas, that's the only line I'm seeing that you can gristle-draw into for a win [2 petals definitely, and cantrip or unsummons via free counters pointed at petal #2].Originally Posted by sunlith42
The only creature card I can see getting you out of that situation on your initial entomb/exhume is Thrashing Wumpus and activating pestilence effect in response to inkmoth animations & attack step. It'd be going pretty deep, but it's basically a really bad version of elesh [except vs karakas], so it'd eat up a sideboard slot and only really come in if karakas is shown...would at least be an interesting meta-call.
So basically, the decision we face is one of speed vs. consistency.
If we opt for speed, we should play Lotus Petal and Faithless Looting. If we opt for consistency, we should play Jace Vryn's Prodigy and Animate Dead.
Adding red gets us nothing but mana f#cked and jace is a bit to slow for my liking. I do believe it's a choice of speed and consistency but better choices need to be made.
@sunlith42
Sorry I missed that he had karakas, downtoon is right I think griselbrand is the play to try and get a needle or something. Although sometimes that deck along with lands just straight up has the nuts and u gotta tip the hat.
I've been trying two copies of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, and I think they've been fairly successful. In one recent victory he allowed me to go off through a DRS with Exhume and Entomb, forcing the opponent to allow Griselbrand or face whatever I could fetch out.
Infect can be a tricky matchup, they'll have clutch counters and can present a legitimate risk early while maintaining late game presence with the difficult to remove Inkmoth Nexus. In your specific situation, I'd have to agree that Tidespout Tyrant offers the best opportunity to win. Assuming he doesn't have any pump spell, you're able to block 1 of the Inkmoth and go to 9 infect, then on your turn hopefully draw some gas to bounce the blighted on the next swing and still be able to block the second Inkmoth. Issue being, as the Infect player, I'd hold off until I draw some pump, knowing you're on the defensive, and try and get in with at least one creature to boost to lethal. At that point trying to swing the Inkmoths into your blocker wouldn't be my first choice. If Infect is big there you could consider either Blazing Archon as a sideboard option.
Against Storm, I don't agree on your Thoughtseize target, you're leaving him with a minimum of 6 mana plus the tutor, taking the cabal therapy is borderline beneficial because now he's one step closer to a natural hellbent. Sure leaving him with it means you get your Exhume nailed on his turn, but most likely, that will be the extent of him turn and you have the Ponder to find the other 8 effects in the deck. Taking the Infernal Tutor leaves him with only mana in his hand, which is very very dangerous, but much better than mana plus something to do with it. Game 2 I can agree that your starting 7 isn't the best, but it's pretty good against Storm. They can be just as fast as you, but less resilient. Crippling their hand early should buy you enough time to have better draws going forward and assemble your combo first. Landing three discard by the second turn ensures that easily, and you're just a Brainstorm or a Ponder away from being right back to where you want to be, while they're trying to regain critical mass.
Elesh Norn is the better target vs infect, none of their critters are stronger than 2-3 toughness. Tidespout Tyrant can be defeated by Vines of the Vastwood. The problem is some infect builds splash white which can kill your Elesh leaving you with a problem.
While generally true, the issue ran into was inkmoth evasion of -2/-2 in a crop rotation/karakas deck.
This is advice specific to sunlith42's situation of 12 life, 7 poison, two Inkmoth Nexus and a Karakas, a Blighted Agent in the opponent's graveyard, and Entomb & Exhume in hand with 4 available mana. Obviously getting Elesh Norn or any legendary creature will just get it bounced at the end of your turn, and then you're facing lethal. So the only options are a non-legendary flyer to block, or attempt to get Griselbrand and draw 7 with only 1 mana and any Lotus Petals you may draw to follow up with.
Ah I didn't see that when I was browsing on my phone. My bad.
@PirateKing thanks for the input on the storm match, thats the one match I thought I made the most misplays and could have had a shot in. But I had never played against storm before so that definitely hurt, in the future I have a better idea what to take now.
I am seriously considering running Void Winnower when he comes out. He's an 11/9 for 9 mana, your opponents can't cast spells with even CMC and he can't be blocked by creatures with even CMC. In Miracles this shuts off Jace, terminus, counterspell, counterbalance snapcaster, & Dig. In lands this shuts of loam. In Storm it shuts off all wincons. 12 post it shuts off titan. In elves it shuts off NO and craterhoof. It also hits RIP, tormods, & containment priest.
If it was odd CMC I think he would be 100% include. As it is I think he could be really strong and hard to deal with. Thoughts?
Thoughts are: it doesnt stop StP and why would I reanimate this over Iona?
"If we don't know what we are doing, the enemy certainly can't anticipate our future actions!"
-Anonymous
I rather just play grisel, draw a bunch of cards, use it to protect my grisel.
Problem is, beyond Jace and Terminus, all the cards you named are ones that give us difficulty BEFORE we're reanimating, and do very little to bother us afterwards. They can play all the Tormod's and Containment's they want once I have Griselbrand safely in play. So you're going to face the same obstacles getting him into play in the forst place, and will only really help power out a follow up creature, which is the same debate with Archetype of Endurance. We really don't have the space or the time to set up a one-two creature combo. It's hard enough just to get the one, so we really need to focus on making sure that one opportunity nets us the best possible future.
Void Winnower's even clause seems to be best against LED/Infernal Tutor and any relevant spell with storm triggers, though it's still soft to chain of vapor. It's probably also decent vs chalice decks [especially if they run loam/p-fire]. Thinking about the card in a bubble, I'd bring it in vs storm, charbelcher, aggro loam, lands, MUD, Tezzerator, High Tide, Aluren, and some others - but the main thing here is these should be pretty fringe match-ups, and simply drawing 7 with gristle or grabbing Iona may still be more correct. If you're going to experiment with it, I might suggest -1 pithing needle from the sideboard to make space since it's sort of the same effect.
Gonna be playing Reanimator in a 0.5k tomorrow. Here's the list I'm thinking of running:
3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Grave Titan
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
1 Animate Dead or Life/Death (Not sure which is better)
4 Careful Study
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Thoughtseize
1 Pithing Needle
3 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Flooded Strand
4 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
1 Island
14 lands may be too few. I almost want to cut the 9th reanimation spell for an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, but maybe another basic land just seems better.
As for the sideboard, I'm thinking this so far, but it clearly needs work.
2 Massacre
1 Pithing Needle
4 Show and Tell
2 City of Traitors
1 Duress
1 Aetherling
1 Ashen Rider
1 Flusterstorm
2 Echoing Truth
Any suggestions for a diverse meta that I may be missing?
I'm still not sold on the green splash for Abrupt Decay, mainly because I'm afraid of getting Wastelanded out of the game. On the other hand, Decay shores up the Miracles matchup fairly well.
In matches where they would have wasteland you just keep an uncracked fetch until the turn you draw the abrupt decay, then you fetch your green source and use abrupt decay on their endstep. So you can reanimate on your turn, earlier in your match you can fetch your basics so it won't matter.
Recently I have been playing 3 dark ritual where I would normally play 3 lotus petal. I am liking it alot. It allows me to turn 1 entomb, then either reanimate or exhume. It also allows for a turn 1; dark rit, thought-seize, entomb, reanimate. Which is really strong. It also has better late game utility than lotus petal, allowing me to cast grave titan on turn 4 multiple times and even cast a griselbrand once off 2 dark rits. I would say for the foreseeable future I will be running dark ritual over lotus petal.
not a bad idea. will try it out in testing when i have a chance. sorta like onion deck except not as vulnerable.
-rob
That's how it was played a decade ago, before all the 'yard hate was printed. It's fast, but how is it with SnT? I guess it is probably okay, except for the instances of 1 land hands against a wasteland list.
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
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