It's true it's more resilient but what I'm afraid of is the very little damage it does. Also all DnT needs to beat this card is an untapped mom so I doubt it can race.Originally Posted by Ixbpoqdxl
From your testing so far, were there times where it was better than inkwell when in play? Were there times where it was worse and if so how exactly? I've always been interested but it is so damn slow that I fear it will never get there.
I for one don't play 4 because I hate losing 4 targets to surgical. I have a 3/1 split with Jin since he does roughly the same thing but allows us to draw even < 7 life. He's worse most of the time but sometimes he can be better and that's enough for me.
I've been treating Keranos more like Tidespout rather than a faster wincon---it clears the way for you to set up a bomb by killing problem creatures (but only creatures) and being really hard to interact with from your opponents side. But again, I don't have enough matches with this dude yet to know it's the real deal or not.
I should have been clearer with the first post. I thought they would be similar because of the hard-to-remove aspect of both Inky and Keranos, but they play out differently.
The game is so much faster now that I haven't used Keranos in a long time. When Miracles was in full stride as a hard control deck safely Entreating after 1,000 turn we could do well by sticking Keranos and burning them out. Now they can flip out an alarming number of Mentor tokens and win, even if we get a turn to burn the Mentor dead, the token left hit us again and it's over. D&T seem to be a turn faster than I remember, less of a Port, Wasteland, hit you with Thalia for 10 turns and more of a deck that puts a few 3 power creatures into play in one turn and laughs at your math as it beats you to the ground. I'm going through the matchups trying to find one where Keranos is the perfect silver bullet and they're all equally or better served by creatures that also see relevance in other matchups.
I don't know man Keranos has been in my sideboard for a long time now and I still find him extremely important. I think you guys are underrating the fact that there's only one card in the whole (played) format and it's usually boarded out in g2, but also a very important point: He bypasses containment priest. For me this is the tipping point and more than enough to keep him around. I usually board it vs Miracle, Stoneblade and DNT. He tips the scale so much in your favor vs DNT that you can win the games in the long run. I still play 3 decays in my sideboard so keranos becomes an engine to become kind of a control deck, and when they are on tank empty because of him, you can reanimate and execute your gameplan more easily.
I am on 3x dark rit main but it's a mistake to compare it to daze. You should compare it to Lotus Petals. Daze prevents opponents from interrupting/executing their plan while dark rit allows you to carry your plan earlier.
Since I wanted to have drs hate mainboard, I switched 3 daze for 3 collective brutality. This also brought the mana cost a little up so I had to replace 3 petals for 3 dark rits and I find I'm in a good spot now. Although I love the extra T1-2 options it allows, I would probably stick to petals if you don't need the extra mana for brutalities.
Howdy all,
The legacy itch came back. And a recent bonus at work lead me to finish the pimping of my reanimator deck. I haven't played since Eldrazi was still new and running amok. From what I gather the meta is filled with more piles of fair blue crap. This was the list I was running before I took my hiatus for almost like 2 years. Probably going to try bringing this to a team constructed event if the team lets me be the assigned legacy player.
Creatures (9)
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Archetype of Endurance
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Tidespout Tyrant
3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Spells (36)
3 Lotus Petal
2 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
3 Daze
4 Exhume
2 Show and Tell
4 Force of Will
Lands (15)
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
Sideboard (15)
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Thoughtseize
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pithing Needle
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Teferi's Realm
1 Grave Titan
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Blazing Archon
From what I'm reading JVP is no longer really popular in reanimator lists and collective brutality is worth consideration to deal with DRS. I pack Teferi's Realm as a catch all way to deal with hate cards worked wonders against MUD and D&T, though I admit committing to double blue was very difficult at times. Pernicious Deed, I've only used once and it served it's job pretty well against Team America but again the Green can be difficult to deal with in decks packing wasteland. I'm probably thinking of putting more discard/collective brutality to deal with increased DRS.
Archetype of Endurance I'm extremely conflicted on, if I drop this card against Miracles or Death and Taxes I feel like I could have just used Empyrial Archangel or Tidespout to deal with threats. If I had two fatties on the field it usually meant that I was going to win. Sire of Insanity has backfired on me so many times, what is leading me to cut this card is an ANT player was able to recover against a T1 sire against me because he dropped U. Sea, a Swamp, then infernal tutored a chain of Vapor. UBx Reanimator just can't barf this card fast enough consistently compared to BRx.
You might want to reconsider chain of vapor in favor of Etruth. At some point you're bound to have to bounce marit lage while you have a creature on board and you'll feel really bad.
Lands have no way of beating you when you drop Tidesprout tyrant
What's your blue card count for Force without Daze? I play the full 12 cantrips alongside (3) Daze.
Right, but sometimes your tidespout gets exiled to bojuka bog and you get stuck with something else. You don't always get to pick the best creature and you might be left with something that cannot beat lage. Also it's a bad idea to have all your answer on 1 drops because etruth can also answer chalice on 1 or bounce multiple thorn of amethyst. Diversifying your answers and your threats's cost is a better idea.
18 blue cards. For games 2-3 it usually stays the same or goes up slightly so I rarely have nothing to pitch.
This was the exact reason I switched from UB and Grixis Reanimator to UGg Reanimator. I had Blazing Archon and Empyrial Archangel on the field. My opponent had a Marit Lage, my Tidespout got extirpated. What made things worse for me was my opponent had Chalices on 1, 2, and 3. It was just a stalemate. Abrupt Decay really helps with that.
Has anyone been able to replicate any success of that 4c Reanimator deck that did pretty well at a Legacy GP a few years back? Maybe it's just me but the mana base felt too disruptable.
Which GP? I played 4c Reanimator for a number of years, don't remember anybody going any farther than any other Reanimator.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/339783#paper
I believe this is the finish you are looking for.
If you're wondering how I produce blue mana, I copy my opponent's Island with Thespian's Stage
My Youtube and Twitch usernames are DNSolver.
I am the Legacy metagame:
-2016 Eternal Weekend Europe won by BR Reanimator (I wrote the primer)
-2016 Eternal Weekend North America won by Turbo Dark Depths (I write about and develop the winning version specifically)
-Refiner of Hogaak Depths.
I think its interesting how BR reanimator is now considered the default variant when people talk about legacy reanimator. The UB version has all been pushed out of all major tournaments, I'm not sure if it survives purely in small local metagames.
the difference is that BR has the speed to push through a T1 DRS. UB doesn't
There’s another theory that the people with Seas would just play Delver.
When TinFins what up-and-coming a lot of players shifted to that, and I feel that after that train rolled through a number of them just moved over to BR. Hard to say if that train is still running or if it too will descend back, leaving the rest of us as the default "Reanimator"
Every release we're well positioned to take advantage of whatever big dumb pushed monster they dream up. I doubt anything will ever be as good as Griselbrand, but Archetype of Endurance and Keranos, God of Storms were good tries.
That's my main concern with reanimator, that it's an archetype that won't have any more support.
The core tools for reanimator (regardless of whether they are BR or UB) are already pushed, they cannot be made more efficient for what they do. Be it card draw, looting effects, counters, disruption, tutors, rituals... even the last new card, Collective Brutality, was more of a flexible modular card rather than a core tool for the deck.
The only new cards that we can anticipate are the creatures, and even then nothing will probably ever top Griselbrand. We can await silver bullets, but they don't really solve the issue of ever-increasing GY hate.
Maybe they'll give us back Mystical Tutor ;)
I think UB Reanimator is a completely different animal than BR, and you usually can steal matches against people that think otherwise. IMO the way to play with blue is to embrace patience and not be that impulsive. BR is as fragile as glass, while UB can grind out a lot. I don't disagree with the fact that there hasn't been a ton of good cards for Maindeck changes, but there has been a lot of very interesting ideas when we talk about going a little bit slower and sideboarding strategies. Search For Azcanta, for example, is one card I can definitely see being a sideboard staple for the long games.
As a quick update, I'm still on the no mana acceleration plan, and now i've went up to 2 duresses post-sideboard (2 Seize main, 2 Side) meaning I can go up to 6 discard spells post sideboard if i want to, which should feel very nice.
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