I can't tell you why SnT players don't play decay (I think many of them do, in fact), but as someone who plays only decays I can tell you I don't play SnT because I don't find it necessary, in fact, I find it awkward. I played the card when I started out and decided I didn't like it in the deck, so I have been playing with alternatives for years.
Hi. I've been playing the full playset of Show and Tell for a while. Mainly because it completely bypasses the graveyard hate and sometime creates a ton of "ooops! I win" situations. I'm really considering playing abrupt decays tho. I'm sure they can coexist. I only have a Bayou and no tropical island tho, so i'll have to rearrange my fetches, or try to get a cheap one. A reason I don't like to get rid of SnT is because, at least from what I see, a lot of players rely on Decays to get rid of the hate, but without SnT and only decays you are conceding against the Black LeylineOriginally Posted by Stryfo
An idea for both of them to coexist could be a sideboard like:
3 Pithing Needle
2 Show And Tell (2 in MB)
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Flusterstorm
2 Thoughtseize (2 in MB)
2 City of Traitors
1 Ashen Rider
1 Echoing Truth
Although this plan would completely drop my Serenity idea which to be honest I'm having a blast with :(
What do you guys think of City of Traitors? They are great to play against soft counters IMO
I think it's fairly standard for both SnT and decay builds to have access to 1-2 bounce affects in the board so conceding to leyline might be an exaggeration, also in my experience decks playing black leyline where matches I didn't really want to SnT, stuff like bug nic fit so they has access to problematic permanents like lili, sower etc, but that just might be my experience what decks have you come up against with black leyline and how has SnT been against them?
Black Leyline I've seen it in Pox, Jund, that Leylines deck, and Dredge. I even remember one time having facing 2 black leylines against black pox, and i had both a fatty + SNT and the echoing truth. The good thing about SNT is that although you can get rid of those pesky leylines, sometimes you need to be as quick as you can and hopping that barrier instead of trying to break it with bounce effects/decays/serenities is a stronger and much critical play. Another good thing about Show and Tell is that sometimes your opponent has two different GY hate cards which forces you to find two bullets, which sometimes can be waay too long of a time.
About how SNT worked against those decks, most of the times it just ended the game. Black decks mostly have one way to kill one of your fatties, which is Liliana which them can't cheat with SNT.
Leyline also sees play in Tezzerator builds.
It is also becoming a sideboard staple of Shardless BUG lists. I would suggest to run Reverent Silence in the board to overcome it (and splash damage against CB+RiP).
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Hey guys finally decided to make an account on here, got third again in dallas this weekend playing legacy SCG, this time with reanimator and just wanted to let everyone know my matches, im usually a delver player and decided at 2am after losing with delver in practice all day that im just going to jam reanimator for the hell of it, here is how my day went.
Miracles 2-0
Miracles 2-0
Burn 2-0
Miracles 2-1
SneaknShow 2-1
Rug delver 2-0
double draw into top 8
top8:
Miracles 2-0
TES 1-2
Ended up third and had a ton of fun hanging out with all of my friends i see at the scgs and making a lot of new friends as well, everyone i played was really cool and most of us kept each other updated throughout the day.
Creatures (8)
1 Grave Titan
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Lands (16)
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs
Spells (36)
3 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
2 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
3 Ponder
4 Reanimate
2 Show and Tell
2 Thoughtseize
Sideboard
2 Pithing Needle
1 Inkwell Leviathan
2 Echoing Truth
1 Flusterstorm
3 Massacre
2 Show and Tell
2 Thoughtseize
2 City of Traitors
Well done and congrats on the finish!
Hi guys,
Stryfo and I are going to stream a daily on twitch.tv in 20 minutes. We will be using his BURG list with Izzet Charms. If you guys want to tune in and hear analysis about lines and generally learn magic as we learn, feel free to join us!
We will go live soon and hopefully we can hear feedback on plays you liked and didn't like and that can feed into some deeper discussion in this thread.
http://www.twitch.tv/clashed007
Missed it and you no vod on twitch, you got a vod on youtube or anything as I would be keen to check it out.
I agree.
Also, has anyone EVER tried Dreams of the Dead? http://magiccards.info/ia/en/66.html
Personally I haven't tried that card yet. But it doesn't look that good to me at 1st sight. You're basically paying 6 mana to get 1 creature into play, granted afterwards you can repeat the process for 1U. However, it can't target Iona of Elesh (or Sire if you're running him), there's the cumulative upkeep part that needs to be paid... And it get's removed if you can't pay it (and I assume that counts as well for Liliana's sac ability?). Which makes it impossible to return it later on with reanimate/exhume. Honestly, I'd just run Animate Dead instead. That card doesn't limit you to your own graveyard either.
On an other forum I saw someone mention trying Snapcaster Mage in this deck. Has anyone tried this? It can be flashed in to block a C. Priest or something else, can make you recast some spells, etc. This got me thinking about maybe trying a bit more control with the deck, but I haven't given much thought to it yet.
Did OK at SCG Worcester this weekend. Went 9-6 over all, 6-3 on day one and 3-3 on day two.
Played something similar to my usual UBr list.
My main take away from the event was that Stronghold Gambit is a beast. I actually found it to be more useful than Show and Tell. I think that's mostly because it costs less, and therefore gets around Dazes and Spell Pierces more easily. I bring it in against both Miracles and Omniscience, which were the two most well represented decks in the room.
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Congrats to my buddy Noah. Even though I wasn't the winner, it was good to ride home in the same car as the trophy.
Legacy - all flavors of Delver, UB Shadow, Eldrazi Stompy, UBx Reanimator, some UBx midrange piles
Modern - Prowess, Traverse Shadow
Pioneer - UW Aggro
Nice to see someone getting good results with Stronghold's gambit. Against Miracles I usually board maybe pithing needles, the 3rd (maybe the 4th one too) show and tell and the decays. Did you really need it against Omniscience tho? Don't get me wrong, I absolutely think that Stronghold gambit has massive potential but Omnitell seems like a 90-10 MU in Reanimator's favor already.
Another card that I'd like to try is Intuition. It could serve both as a way to get a reanimation spell (thanks to redundancy) or it can function as a Entomb if you pick 3 fatties, all at instant speed.
Won a local 12 man tournament to take home $25 and a Wasteland. Took zero notes, so I can't give details beyond my recollections. I had lovingly totally plagiarized Stryfo's list because I felt I was in a rut with my current build and kept faltering at the same obstacles and was keen on a totally different take on the deck. So I sleeved it up his list verbatim (again, with love) and went to a tournament previous, going 3-1-1, beating Burn, Death & Taxes and Miracles; losing to MUD and drawing against Maverick. That was good enough for the number 6 seat in top8, only to get swept by Team America. So I took my experience home with me, retooled the creature suite, and armed with better play experience, showed up with this list:
4 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Badlands
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Hapless Researcher
3 Griselbrand
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Grave Titan
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
2 Animate Dead
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Izzet Charm
1 Misdirection
Sideboard
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Inkwell Leviathan
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pernicious Deed
2 Pithing Needle
2 Thoughtseize
2 Echoing Truth
1 Darkblast
Round 1 - Goblins - 2-1
Game 1 he's on the play and goes Mountain into AEther Vial. So before he can get a Lackey attacking I Entomb and Reanimate Elesh Norn. He takes his hits and Matrons up his Stingscourger, but Hapless Researcher and an Exhume wipes his board again and he scoops.
Game 2 he has Relic of Progenitus as his first play, I has Force but no blue pitch, end up drawing a Careful Study for my turn, would have been nice then. I'm able to bin a creature and force him to pop his Relic, but he keeps me off mana enough that my only follow up is Reanimate at 5 life, so I die.
Game 3 is very much like game 1, land Elesh Norn only to get bounced, redeploy for the lock.
Round 2 - Merfolk - 1-2
Game 1 he doesn't show much besides basic Islands, counters my early attempt at Griselbrand, then finally shows me a Merfolk. I get Elesh Norn and he has nothing to stop me, counter the single attempt to bounce her and get the game win.
Game 2 he has Grafdigger's Cage early and slowly starts powering out Merfolk through Cavern of Souls while I search for a way to get rid of the Cage. By the time I can access my graveyard, an army of Islandwalk fish kill me.
Game 3 I goes back and forth, I end up Reanimating his True-Name Nemesis so I can Exhume Tidespout Tyrant, he has Phantasmal Image to copy the Tidespout, the resulting counterwar bounces the majority of both our boards, and he rebuilds before I can find another reanimation effect.
Round 3 - RG Lands - 2-0
Game 1 goes fast, Griselbrand hits 3 times before he does anything of note.
Game 2 I play Pithing Needle on Thespian Stage turn 1, don't have much to do after that, but turns out neither does he. I get Grave Titan in play, and Maze of Ith does a good job at stalling the 6/6 himself, but can't do anything about the army of Zombies that eventually run him down.
Round 4 - ANT - 2-1
Game 1 he takes with a turn 2 combo to storm 12.
Game 2 I quickly deploy a Sire of Insanity, he reads it, then reads it again when I move to end step. We play draw-go while I hit him down.
Game 3 I'm thankful he doesn't have a fast hand, I beat him down with a menagerie of creatures. He shows me a hand of nothing but mana. Top card of his library? Tendrils of Agony. Storm 7 would have been enough to kill me. Scary.
I take a breath and a pee and look at top 8 posting, somehow with lots of draws going around and a good breaker, I'm the number 1 seed. Seems like every store is using the play/draw rule, so that's nice.
Quarterfinal - BRUG Delver/Pyromancer - 2-1
Game 1 he has some Wastelands to trip me up but my Darkblast keeps me safe long enough to stick a creature. I had my doubts with Darkblast before, but it pulled double duty here.
Game 2 I keep a weak hand and it plays out like I kept a weak hand.
Game 3 I win off what could be considered a misplay or miscommunication. He plays a Deathrite Shaman on his turn and passes to me. After some hand sculpting, I have in hand Entomb, Reanimate, Izzet Charm, Misdirection & Careful Study or Hapless Researcher, not sure which. In play I only have Underground Sea and Badlands. End of his turn, I play Entomb, getting Griselbrand. He stops me in my upkeep, plays Surgical Extraction, targeting my Griselbrand. I play Misdirection, pitching my other blue card, moving the target to his Scalding Tarn. He Forces, I tap out and play Izzet Charm, countering his Force. Stack resolves just like that, he eats his own fetch and I draw for turn tapped out facing down a sick Deathrite Shaman. Card for turn is Swamp, I jam it down and play Reanimate and take the game from there.
After the game, he explained that he wanted to play his Surgical Extraction on my end step, and complained I rushed through the steps and didn't give him the opportunity to play anything, hence the upkeep battle. I explained to him the turn ends after he passes priority on an empty stack, and only he can pass priority. Even if I rushed him, he could have just said "stop, I haven't passed priority" and then we'd rewind. But instead he said "wait, upkeep" so that's where we fought, after I untapped. In hindsight, that was his only window, since drawing that Swamp for turn would have given me mana enough to achieve the same results if he had waited for the Reanimate to play Surgical, but as he played it during my upkeep, I wondered why he hadn't waited for the Reanimate first. Also with him untapping into a Deathrite next turn anyway, it was do or die for me. He left kind of salty, upset at me for rushing him and upset at himself for not standing his ground on the timing of steps.
Semifinal - Loam Pox - 2-1
Game 1 I am able to squeak out a win despite his cards designed to crush me at every turn. He had at least 2 draw steps to grab any sacrifice effect and I dodged both.
Game 2 was close, landing Elesh Norn to wipe his board, then reanimating both of his Bloodghasts to hit him with a hasty 8 damage, I was feeling good. But a Pernicious Deed on his side followed by an Innocent Blood cleared me out, Chains of Mephistopheles put an end to my recovery, few hits put me to 2, and then running Smallpox made me dead.
Game 3 I'm sweating as I shuffle up, thinking I have to have a godly hand to beat him, one turn slow and I'd be buried under hate cards. Thankfully, my opening 6 cards lets me stick Iona turn 2, and naming black, he's stuck trying to dredge Loam to find his one of Karakas. Never sees it and I win.
Final - Affinity - 2-0
Game 1 I'm faster to bring a legitimate threat to the table, and a few chumps with Hapless Researcher to fend of a Cranial Plated guy gets me the game.
Game 2 I get Pithing Needle on Cranial Plating and clear the board with Elesh Norn. Grave Titan joins next turn and that's enough to get the win.
The deck felt good and the more I play it, the more I understand Stryfo's card choices. I'm still unsure about the miser Misdirection, at times I'll think a third Izzet Charm might be the more useful slot. Pernicious Deed got lots of use, catching every opponent off guard and letting me clear the board of threats and gravehate before making my play. Engineered Explosives was useful as well, especially at 0, but for this tournament specifically, paled alongside Deed. I thought I'd miss Ponder more than I did, a few games I did wish for a bit more cantrips, I was playing hellbent often, and a topdeck Careful Study or Izzet Charm didn't feel good. But Hapless Researcher did more than I originally gave it credit for; totally negating my opponent's bounce strategy, reanimating a dead Researcher on the cheap to rebin my fatty; dodging Edicts; playing nice with Exhume to sneak something through a Deathrite, and lastly attacking on a open board. Also welcome when all you have out is Elesh Norn and you want to push the clock up by a turn. Also learning to enjoy all the real mana sources, speed from Lotus Petals was fun, but inconsistent enough that first turn Reanimates were rare and now with a more solid mana base I'm finding it easier to cast the expensive cards like Deed and even Engineered Explosives at 4 (take that Leyline of the Void)
So yeah, good weekend. Going to keep this list for now, maybe adjust the creatures a bit as the meta moves around, but no major changes anticipated. I'll try and answer any questions people have, but this is all from memory; and I can't really take credit on the unique card choices, that again would be Stryfo.
Hey PirateKing, I'm building a reanimator now and I found it very amusing the 4 color reanimator deck you guys are making. About the card choises, I just wonder if it wouldn't be better to cut some loothing effects (as this version with hapless researcher has 10), as you even think it would be good to put more 1 copy of izzet charm.
I use to play with UR Delver and TES, and in those decks Ponder is really great to find what you want and avoid dead draws. As your decklist cut ponder, maybe take off some loothing effects to insert some ponder? I mean, the old lists had only 4 of it (careful study), maybe 10 is more than the necessary.
ThiefSlayer, I can totally understand your concerns over Ponder, and they are ones I've shared in the past. Yes there have been games where I draw dead into Careful Study or Hapless Researcher that would have been live had it been a Ponder. But I've played many games of 'classic' Reanimator struggling to get a creature into the graveyard, thinking do I cast this Ponder and hope to find something, or just hold on and try and discard to hand size?
Getting that creature into the graveyard shouldn't be an obstacle when it's such a critical aspect of the deck, and especially so considering how much fight you can expect trying to get it back out. Any game you're stuck with a creature in hand, playing Brainstorm and Ponder trying to get either Entomb or Careful Study is a game where you're literally doing nothing. And sadly our window is so narrow that we just can't afford to spend 2 turns sculpting.
I've looked a lot at Izzet Charm and Careful Study, trying to figure which I want more. Izzet Charm alone is such a better card, all the options are amazing, and you can expect to use all three in a tournament. I can't think of a game where I wasn't happy to see it. Instant speed as well, just awesome. But then I look atand I get apprehensive to jam more in the deck, since they're pretty much competing for space against Careful Study, and that
cost is so smooth.
I think I'll need more games to figure out for myself what the right balance is, but as I write this, I'm happy with the build as is.
I'd really recommend giving the deck a try, you'll quickly see that Hapless Researcher is so much more than looting effect 5-8.
Now that you said it, it really sounds like a build without petals for acceleration and excessive digging for the pieces is too slow for the gameplan. Thanks for the insights, I'll get the final pieces until next week and will give it a try!ThiefSlayer, I can totally understand your concerns over Ponder, and they are ones I've shared in the past. Yes there have been games where I draw dead into Careful Study or Hapless Researcher that would have been live had it been a Ponder. But I've played many games of 'classic' Reanimator struggling to get a creature into the graveyard, thinking do I cast this Ponder and hope to find something, or just hold on and try and discard to hand size?
Getting that creature into the graveyard shouldn't be an obstacle when it's such a critical aspect of the deck, and especially so considering how much fight you can expect trying to get it back out. Any game you're stuck with a creature in hand, playing Brainstorm and Ponder trying to get either Entomb or Careful Study is a game where you're literally doing nothing. And sadly our window is so narrow that we just can't afford to spend 2 turns sculpting.
I've looked a lot at Izzet Charm and Careful Study, trying to figure which I want more. Izzet Charm alone is such a better card, all the options are amazing, and you can expect to use all three in a tournament. I can't think of a game where I wasn't happy to see it. Instant speed as well, just awesome. But then I look at
I think I'll need more games to figure out for myself what the right balance is, but as I write this, I'm happy with the build as is.
I'd really recommend giving the deck a try, you'll quickly see that Hapless Researcher is so much more than looting effect 5-8.
@PirateKing Do you think the inclusion of izzet charm slows the deck down? Since if izzet charm is the only discard spell in hand you couldn't use it until turn 2, then reanimate on turn 3. Or would you mulligan a hand with izzet charm as the only discard outlet?
I play Grixis for Izzet Charm and maindeck Pyroblast and I really think we need to move away from Ponder. Our deck has such a high density of combo pieces (I have 11 ways to get a creature into the yard including thoughtseize and 10 reanimation spells), and so few mana sources (I have 15 land + petals) that I always feel like I'm wasting my turn when I ponder. I only have 1 in the 75 now and I'm considering cutting it.
Legacy - all flavors of Delver, UB Shadow, Eldrazi Stompy, UBx Reanimator, some UBx midrange piles
Modern - Prowess, Traverse Shadow
Pioneer - UW Aggro
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