Most blue decks that let SnT resolve have basically admitted they have already lost the game (unless they're running grisel, emrakul, omniscience, or other proactive threat). You can't always play around everything, and sometimes the correct call is to cast Show and Tell with it's hidden text [opponent must discard countermagic] to clear the way for a reanimation effect. There's a trap when people think about magic as a game about value and 1-for-1s, you can forget that some things just kill you, in this case bluffing to aid in the cheating in of a griselbrand.Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
Or that they are holding removal, not countermagic. I see where you are coming from to a point, but overall I feel like Abrupt Decay does a better job of dealing with hate cards and is more relevant than fighting counters with bluffs. I mean, I have counters to fight counters, I'd rather have absolute answers as well, not just more of the same strategy that does a lot less comparatively.
Hello, fellow reanimator players.
While I plan to build a 4c version eventually, at the moment I have to start with only 3x US for my duals landbase. That's why I'd really like to get an advices on building UB version.
What could be used a replacement for Abrupt Decays to battle miracles? Maybe Wipe Away?
Or would it be a good idea to keep Abrupt Decays and add 2 shocks into the side for a green splash?
And what would be a better temporal replacement for a fourth Underground Sea? Watery Grave or Darkslick Shores? Shores make Daze somewhat worse, but help to preserve life total.
In lieu of green, a UB build is going to be more reliant on discard and bounce coming out of the board, and probably lean more on countermagic throughout the entire match. If you look at historic builds, they had something like 2 Thoughseize and 3 Daze main, then 3 Spell Peirce, 2 Duress and 2 Echoing Truth in the side. Then probably some copies of Show and Tell with a Boseiju for good measure.
Limited to just UB, I'd recommend trying to go for a more explosive build, keep Watery Grave for Daze, play Lotus Petal and try and come in under whatever hate they can muster. 4c Reanimator is the slower and safer build, but if you can't be slow and safe, might as well be fast. Super fast.
I think there is no real replacement for Decay.
I personally play UBg at my local store with no duals, three WGraves, one Breeding Pool and three LPetals. Not good enough for for big tournaments for sure. The life loss is significant and I had to cut one Reanimate for Animate Dead because Reanimate is often dead with shocklands.
Earlier, I tried the clean UB build with Echoing Truths but I quickly realized that Decays are really worth of another shockland.
As a side note, Dimir Charm is good against Miracles when they top their top :) Also kills Containment Priest, counters Terminus and helps in other matchups playing Deathrite Shaman.
Having 3 Seas is great. You can probably get away with a Shockland. Make no other adjustments until you really notice a real issue.
I personally play all-in Griselbrand and I've been playing an Overgrown Tomb since forever. My friend played UB Reanimator and when he splashed green he was trying an Overgrown Tomb.
If you're on UB reanimator, you really don't need anything more than 3 Seas. You will however need Misty (preferably, considering you're building into 4c) as your secondary fetchland. Knowing sideboard (i.e. if you will runspells) will influence if you use 3 basics vs another fetchland.
3 underground seas is more than enough, I run 3 color and only 2 underground seas so I can run more basics. I have found shocklands to be really bad in reanimator because you want to be able to use daze freely and have two lands and as much life as possible for a turn 2 reanimate. I would stick to UB if you cant get at least one green dual land. Running some extra counter magic and echoing truth/wipe away should be fine.
When I play 4c Reanimator, I play 4 Delta and 4x catacombs, for the simple fact that black is so much more important than blue it's not even funny.
I found a video, BBD playing Eldrazi against Reanimator.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFCwicjxCuw
The Reanimator list is quite interesting because it is playing the white splash instead of green.
Does anyone have some experiences with a white splash including Monastery Mentor, Swords to Plowshares from the board?
Cockatrice: Deckerator
(
) Reanimator
Death&Taxes
I used white for Loyal Retainers, Mentor, Meddling Mage,and Serenity in the past but went back to green.
Serenity ended up not being as good as abrupt decay. It's nice that it takes out multiple hate pieces out at once. Mentor was nice since I play a Petal list which would allow me to go wide and made a later game lotus petal a not so dead draw. I ended up switching back to Decays and adding in a Teferi's Realm. Swords to Plowshares though, not sure how I feel about it due to Chalice running around now.
Hello again,
did anybody test the plain B Reanimator? I played a few games online and it was super explosive. My list is
17 Swamp
4 Animate Dead
4 Dark Ritual
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
1 Grave Titan
3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
3 Lotus Petal
1 Pack Rat
4 Putrid Imp
4 Reanimate
4 Smallpox
1 Tidespout Tyrant
4 Unmask
Sideboard:
1 Archetype of Endurance
1 Ashen Rider
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Disfigure
1 Engineered Plague
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Perish
2 Pithing Needle
3 Ratchet Bomb
1 Stormtide Leviathan
T1 Unmask, Swamp, Petal, Imp/Entomb, Reanimate is insane and it requires only 5 cards in your opening hand! I am kidding here.
But seriously, Smallpox is great, Unmask is great, there are many different sequences that leads you to a T2 bomb. Any experience to share?
I recently 3-2ed a League with Mono B Reanimator. Its a nice list because of its explosiveness and its rogue factor but going forward i will play UBr Reanimator due to its resilience (force, pierce...) and card selection (ponder, brainstorm...).
That is great. Any differences from my list?
If on straight UB, I'd consider running Wipe Away in the sb to deal with problematic permanents. Wipe Away has added benefit of being able to bounce a Karakas at end step!
I am old school player and I still remember the good old days when in the Extended played several versions of Reanimator. Personally, I most liked the mono-black version with Entomb and Vampiric Tutor. You know Akroma, Angel of Wrath, Phantom Nishoba, Verdant Force and of course Visara the Dreadful in mainboard, and in sideboard such gems as Woodripper. Then I stopped playing because I finished school and it was time to find a job. About five years ago I decided to start playing Legacy format and immediately my choice fell on Reanimator. Initially, I could not afford UB version, so I began to arrange mono-black version with the intention to purchase the remaining cards to "complete" Reanimator. Since that time I play almost exclusively mono-black version, which I constantly test and improve. To be honest, I prefer this version than the UB (which in the end I managed to complete) mainly because many solutions, I came myself and it's a deck with which I am most familiar.
So the answer to your question... yes I have "little" experience with this version and will be happy to share my knowledge. Here's my decklist:
Mainboard:
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Archetype of Endurance
1 Resolute Archangel
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
3 Animate Dead
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
1 Rain of Filth
4 Lotus Petal
2 Chrome Mox
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Gemstone Caverns
9 Swamp
Sideboard:
4 Creatures
4 Pithing Needle
4 Ratchet Bomb
3 Massacre
Creature list is actually fairly standard, but there are some aspects that I must discuss. Four copies of His Majesty Griselbrand is an absolute must. He is our most powerful weapon, our main engine and simply one of the best creature in Magic. In most cases, it will be our first reanimation target, and we do not always have the opportunity to play Entomb, so it is better we have it in our hands. We never cut away any Griselbrand for Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur. This is a mistake and in my opinion a really big one, because Jin is weaker and slower. Both Iona and Elesh are creatures prepared for aggro and combo matchups, this is obvious. We can't defend our creatures using counterspells so we need one that is hexproof. Archetype of Endurance is improvement over the Inkwell Leviathan and his ability to bestow our creatures hexproof isn't without significance. In the main I have one more slot for bombs. For five months I test Resolute Archangel and I'm as far very satisfied with the possibilities she gives me.
Reanimation suit is rather obvious. Four copies of Entomb don't require a comment. I concluded that the optimum number of reanimation spells is something between 10-12, except that Reanimation and Exhume should be fullsets.
Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy and Duress are our defence suit. We only choose the best ones. Additional benefit of playing Seize and Therapy is the possibility of targeting yourself. It's worth noting that to effectively play Therapy, the first step should be to learn a few tricks. Here are two articles describling this topic: http://www.channelfireball.com/home/...erapy-session/ and http://www.starcitygames.com/article...l-Therapy.html. I recommend especially the one written by Caleb.
Rest cards are our speed suit. For lack of consistency we need to be fast, fast as hell. Four copies of Dark Ritual and Petals in general should be enought but I find that by adding 2 copies of Mox we increase our chance to first-turn combo out. I love this configuration and I will always recommend it. Rain of Filth is something that I test for some time now and so far I don't have opinion on it. We will see.
Mine mana base is quite unique. Four copies of Gemstone Cavern let us steal back the play when we're not actually on the play by having a land on turn zero. When on the play, casting Entomb in our opponent first upkeep step leaves him with possibility of respond only via Force of Will.
*
In case of sideboard, the thing we always have to keep in mind is to not oversideboard and to keep it simple. We cannot allow to not be able to play our plan by replacement of too many cards. Needle is our response to many different things, Deathrite Shaman being on top. Ratchet Bomb is our only threat against permanent based hate and lately also for Chalice. Massacre is preety obvious. Four flex-slots are for differnet creatures that I choose depending on the meta. Usually, in my case, I select Sphinx of the Final Word (for Miracles and heavy control meta), Grave Titan (for BUG), Silumgar, the Drifting Death (against D'n'T and token heavy decks) and Sire of Insanity (as a last-chance creature).
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A few thoughts on the general approach to the mono black Reanimator, represented by the most players, that I think are wrong. Due to the lack of consistency, we cannot afford that in our deck were any dead card, cards that aren't the best of its kind and card that don't fit into our gameplan.
Two biggest mistakes at the stage of construction of mono black Reanimator are Putrid Imp and Unmask. Players overestimate Imp, while in the meantime he is a dead card for most of the time. We are playing him only when we have one of the large creatures on hand and doesn't have Entomb. Same thing you can do with Thoughtseize and Cabal Therapy with the added benefit that's hitting opponent with them. On the battlefield his is I think the weakest creature in Legacy (better only than 1/1 tokens). Almost the same with Unmask. I understand the benefit of this that we can play this card "for free", but in return we lose another card, probaly crucial for us. We cannot afford it. The only good thing is that we could check to see whether a path is clear. But we can do same thing with Gitaxian Probe and virtualy doesn't lose a card.
Another issue is the tendency to copy all of creatures from UB Reanimator that don't fit into our build. And I talk specifically about Tidespout Tyrant. Becouse we don't have the option to extend a hand size using a Brainstorm or Ponder, we can't effectively use the capabilities of this creature.
Occasionally I also see that people tend to add Smallpox to their lists, which I completly do not understand. Personally, I think it's a stupid idea... Sorry but I am.
*
Finally I would like to present to you a table with the results of my matches. I keep record of my matches for two years now. Draw conclusions yourself.
Legend: rw/rp - round won/round lost /// mw/mp - match won/match lost /// mecz - match /// proporcja - win rate
Oh hell, thank you so much paraszczak. That is a real treasure.So the answer to your question... yes I have "little" experience with this version and will be happy to share my knowledge.
Most of your points make perfect sense to me. I definitely want to try Sphinx. Chrome Mox also looks solid.
On the other hand, smallpox was just great in my testing. It is maindeck kill for shamans and strip mine at the same time. Time will tell. I will replace imps with therapies etc. But still want to try Unmask.
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
Last edited by jattra; 05-21-2016 at 12:15 PM.
Hello again,
I have played 4:0 yesterday in my LGS event (approx. 20 players) with the monoblack build:
Main deck (60):
17 Swamp
4 Animate Dead
1 Ashen Rider
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
1 Grave Titan
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Lotus Petal
2 Putrid Imp
4 Reanimate
1 Smallpox
3 Thoughtseize
2 Unmask
Sideboard (14):
1 Archetype of Endurance
1 Disfigure
1 Dread of Night
1 Extirpate
1 Massacre
1 Pack Rat
3 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Stormtide Leviathan
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Tombstalker
A few notes:
It was insane evening, the storm was rumbling outside and the deck was super explosive.
I often reanimated one or two bombs T1.
T1 Unmask Ritual Bin Reanimate happened.
T1 Bin, T2 Ritual Reanimate with Animate Dead in hand - good luck disrupting that.
T1 Reanimate countered. T2 Extraction on FoW and reanimate happened.
T1 Therapy and Imp, T2 Bin Griselbrand, sac Imp to flashback Therapy and Reanimate happened.
T2 Smallpox destroyed a blue land against miracles and the oponent discards Mentor, I discard Griselbrand. T3 animate both and get some tokens.
T4 Hardcasted Griselbrand using two rituals. I gave a smile to those Shamans trying to keep my GY in check. T7 Hardcasted Ashen Rider using 6 lands and two Petals. I was a bit flooded that game. Say bye to that Batterskull.
17 lands is a lot.
I usually wanted only Needle, Disfigure, Extraction/Extirpate from my sideboard. Sometimes swapping some creatures. Also played Pack Rat against miracles and have it in hand but it was not needed at all.
The build is far from perfect. I used only cards I had. The key point is that Unmask is tremendous, Imp is good (two are probably fine), Smallpox is also good but need more testing.
Cheers.
For you guys running mono-black, I really recommend running red with a couple fetchlands and Badlands, to take full advantage of Faithless Looting. It is very powerful in these decks with a couple more creatures than UB and is desperately needed to smooth out draws. Here's a build I would recommend:
Creatures:
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona
1 Tidespout Tyrant
4 other creatures - I prefer Jin-Gitaxias or Sire of Insanity, maybe a singleton Grave Titan or Archetype of Endurance
Spells:
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Animate Dead
4 Entomb
4 Faithless Looting
4 Unmask
4 Thoughtseize
Mana:
2 Badlands
2 Swamp
1 Bayou / Badlands
8 black fetch
2 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
Sideboard:
4 Burning Wish (comes in except against fast decks with little to no hate, in which case you don't sideboard)
1 Reverent Silence (if running the Bayou/Overgrown Tomb main)
1 Meltdown
1 Empty the Warrens (surprisingly useful)
1 Stronghold Gambit (or Show and Tell if you have a blue land lying around)
1 Pyroclasm
1 Massacre
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Wretched Banquet (copyright me)
1 Buried Alive
1 Cabal Therapy
1 creature slot - Elesh Norn or something
Red also adds the powerful Burning Wish package so that you always have a chance against any hate. Running a green land allows you to deal with Leyline very easily.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/391417#online
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype...r-26292#online
2nd list has a more typical sideboard plan that I'm not a fan of, but you guys can try.
For you guys running RED-black, I really recommend running BLUE with a couple fetchlands and Underground Seas, to take full advantage of Brainstorm, Ponder and Force of Will...
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to be rude but the main reason why someone chooses to play mono-black Reanimator is his budget. If you want to make this a better build and have the money for this purpose, you should rather invest them in blue. If your goal is to slow collecting cards to complete UB Reanimator, buying a red card is rather a stopgap.
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