Faithless Looting is a Careful Study with a 3 mana flashback. In Legacy, the 3 mana flashback is typically less important than pitching to Force of Will. Nevertheless, Careful Study, Hapless Researcher and Ideas Unbound frequently don't even make the cut into Bu color lists these days. Brainstorm & company are just that much better.
In my eyes, the monoblack Reanimator lists look very similar to Tin Fins. Both intend to combo quickly with fast mana.
When discussing red cards, some niche choices include Simian Spirit Guide, Blood Moon, Overmaster, Stronghold Gambit and Sneak Attack. None of those other than ape mana are really worth the splash, though, when we think about the explosive strategy.
Made Top 8 at a 28 player SCG IQ yesterday with this list. 5 rounds of swiss cut to top 8.
Creatures
3x Griselbrand
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Tidespout Tyrant
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Archetype of Endurance
Spells
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
4x Careful Study
4x Entomb
4x Reanimate
4x Exhume
4x Daze
3x Ponder
3x Thoughtseize
1x Animate Dead
Artifacts
3x Lotus Petal
Lands
4x Polluted Delta
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Underground Sea
1x Bayou
1x Tropical Island
2x Swamp
1x Island
Sideboard
3x Show and Tell
2x Pithing Needle
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Disfigure
1x Golgari Charm
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Massacre
1x Coffin Purge
1x Inkwell Leviathan
1x Keranos, God of Storms
Round 1 I had the bye, got to walk around the room and see what everybody was on. To note we had 2 D&T, 2 Nic Fit, 4 or 5 total delver decks of various colors, and to everybody's surprise, not a single miracles deck represented. The head judge was overjoyed that the rounds barely went over time.
Round 2 I played against ANT. Game 1 he mulled to six, and I was able to disrupt with a turn one thoughtseize and a turn 3 Griselbrand drawing into a daze for his first ritual sealed it. Game 2 we both mull to six. I keep a hand that has the turn one reanimate with 1 entomb, and he duresses it out. I topdeck another one like the lucksack I am and get Iona and name black. He chain of vapors it and can't kill me before I draw into the careful study to run her back out. 2-0 thanks to the bye.
Round 3 I get paired against my buddy who is on an eldrazi-post-MUD kinda weird deck he's been doing well with. Game 1 I get the turn 2 Griselbrand and kill him before he ramps enough to stop it after we both mulled to 6. Game 2 he goes to 6 and I keep a hand on 7 of 2 lands, force, careful study, reanimate, griselbrand, lotus petal. He ancient tombs into chalice 1, which I have to force. He gets Newlamog out turn 4 before I draw a way to bin a fatty. Game 3 I'm on the play and snap keep a 7 that can turn 1. He keeps on 7 as well and he says to me "Get it turn one or I win." Well after I turn 1 Griselbrand he shows me ancient tomb, relic, tormod's crypt and chalice. I love lotus petal. 3-0 with a chance to double draw in.
Round 4 my opponent is on esper delver. He decides he can't chance the draw so we play. I mull to 6 and he has a turn 1 delver blind flipped and has all the relevant counters. Game 2 I keep a slightly sketchy 7 that doesn't pan out when he has force and daze for my turn 2 attempt and then slams true-name and equips a SoFI. 3-1 and hoping to draw in.
Round 5 me and my opponent math it out and see that we can safely draw in. I make the power play of buying a Starbuck's Frappucino and in response I am more ready for top 8.
Top 8 I get paired against my buddy on his Eldrazi Post... Mud.. Stacks... thing. Game 1 he keeps on 7 and I mull to 5 on the play. I thoughtseize him and take TKS and petal reanimate it taking his 3 ball. He turn 2 plays his other TKS which I daze, but I can't kill him before he drops Karn and rips me apart. Game 2 I get the turn 1 after we both keep 7. Total game time, 45 seconds. Game 3 he snap keeps and I mull a 7 of 2 lands, Griselbrand, careful study, double reanimate and ponder. The hand was great if he doesn't chalice for 1 but if he does I lose on the spot. My 6 is the exact same thing, great if he doesn't chalice on one. I keep a 5 that ALSO dies to chalice one, but I don't possess the man parts to go to 4 in top 8. He opens with cloudpost tapped and I cry a little. I careful study and bin Tidespout and when he turn 2 drops Trinisphere I know it's over. TKS finishes me.
Overall I had a blast with the deck, it felt great and I'm enjoying my particular build. Archetype is an absolute house and I regret waiting until now to try him. I will be playing this deck at GP Columbus and am looking for anyone's input on things I can do differently with this list to improve it. I need to practice more against D&T and Miracles, but I am fairly comfortable with most other matchups in the meta. Thank you in advance if there's anybody that can help me in tuning this for GP or if you just have general advice as this will be my first ever GP.
One question came to my mind.
Could Stifle be a good card in UB reanimator?
It is close to what needle does but it also can cancel triggers and be pitched to FoW.
Counters relic/crypt/spellbomb activation.
Cancels Shaman activation while having reanimate on the stack. Also can forbid an access to the green mana by hitting a fetchland at the right moment.
Counters miracle trigger.
Counters Snapcaster trigger.
That is a very interesting thought, my main issue up front would be that it cost mana and this deck runs very mana light. The turn you go off you will usually tap out, hence the 8 free counters widely played. That being said stifle does stop a lot of the hate. Cage is the only exception that comes to mind.
Albeit an interesting idea, I can imagine more scenarii in which Stifle just seats there, in you hand, doing nothing than in which you would be happy to have it.
FoW, Daze and even Misdirection to a certain extent would be more useful.
Stifle has a number of implications on deck construction; by itself the card is a trap. As a fun-of I guess it's fine, but I think you'd rather have Repeal, Divert, Chain of Vapor, Misdirection (as suggested by @Rocco111), Show and Tell, or a gotcha card like Quicken or Mindbreak Trap.
If you're talking about a Stifle playset, you're losing a few reanimation targets and cantrips decreasing the deck's ability to re-fire the combo after Grisel reanimation. At this point you're going to want to begin running Wastelands, as you're becoming more of a control-reanimator...except that you're still combo, which means you still can't really afford to be running ways to directly deal with DRS. Keep going down this path and you'll end up at the happy intersection of reanimator & dreadnought. This is where you step back and decide whether or not you value the too-diverse-to-hate hybrid weirdness or you buy Show and Tells and say "I'm just not beating a Containment Priest ever" (and by ever I mean until you draw whatever deals with 2 toughness sideboard card, in addition to SnT and fattie). The moral of the story though is that decks which run Stifle, without any way to use it to advance their ability to win (i.e. don't have their own triggers to stifle), generally underperform - especially if that deck is combo. Look for spells that change the combo (SnT) or protect the original combo, especially if they can also put reanimation targets into opponent's yard (Izzet Charm while not in your colors is a decent example).
I play Reanimator without discard. Who has experiences with discard in this deck? I think about adding 2-3 TS to my deck but i dont feel convinced about that. If i wanna play discard it should be a playset because i wanna draw it as early as possible. The best would be in my opening seven but it is a bad late game.
Cockatrice: Deckerator
() Reanimator
Shardless BUG
Death&Taxes
My issue with that strategy is the non-permanent part. Having my opponent T1 DRS and pass and I T1 Needle and pass, I'm now free to devote the whole of my resources to the game plan. Needle has it's own weakness in a variety of played answers, but this isn't very much less true of Stifle either. Needle is a good "fire and forget" weapon to combat some specific threats, without the need to hold back mana and retard your play just to have a live Stifle.
I play with 2-3 Thoughtseize in my deck and usually 2 Duress out of the side. For the most part my experience has been to use them as proactive counterspells. They rarely get played the combo turn itself, usually the turn or two before. Depending on how explosive your build attempts to be, you're not going to need them in every opening hand. Unlike ANT & TES and other hardcore combo decks, our combo is pretty lean, allowing us for lots of redundancy. I've won just any many games jamming multiple Reanimates into counterspells until one sticks as I have playing with counter backup myself. A handful of discard just feeds that redundancy further.
A good test would always to be slide a piece of scrap paper into your sleeves with whatever cards you're thinking about replacing with a Thoughtseize. As long as it isn't crazy obtrusive, it won't hinder your play in a tournament setting. Then every time you draw that card, ask yourself if you'd rather have a Thoughtseize in this situation. See where that leads you and you should get where you want to be.
This is definitely valid concern. It is connected with the amount of mana we have available on our typical reanimate turn - 1 or 2, rarely 3.
I am just excited about the surprise aspect of stifle. If you needle their shaman, they just give up on it and search for another answer. If you keep stifle in your hand, they might feel safe, fetch for tropical island, tap land and shaman and whiff.
I need to get some time to test it. I just wanted to know if anybody tried that before.
Has anyone been testing against Eldrazi? I've been running 4C and it turns into a coin flip for me. It gets worse if they splash white. 4x Leyline, plus Trinisphere/Amethyst, plus Chalice of the void is hard to get past. Then, while you are trying to build, Thought-knot Seer rips your hand apart. I'm getting ready for GP Columbus and I'm really not digging this match being such a huge part of the meta.
I was thinking of getting into Legacy and wanted to start with a list like this
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/426190#online
Is this a good place to start with the archetype just getting into legacy?
I love the versatility of the wish package, the only thing is Deathrite Shaman, Thalia, and Eldrazi decks(Chalice, Thorn). Deathrite decks, D&T, and Eldrazi are everywhere which is why I'm leary on this deck.
I'm assuming you're actually talking about my list with the wish sideboard:
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/426193#online
It's a great list. I would actually advocate for the 4th Unmask over the Duress, Unmasks are unusally expensive online and I have only just managed to obtain my 4th copy. This list is fast enough to beat Deathrite, Thalia, and thorn effects on the play and most of the time on the draw.
thanks for replying, I had a few questions if you wouldn't mind.
- Stronghold Gambit: When do you wish for this? I assume vs decks that don't run creatures, but those decks are usually combo and can beat you T1 or T2. Do you just use it after a Thoughtseize?
- Buried Alive: Is this for Deathrite Shaman decks so they can't remove all the creatures?
- You SB in Archetype of Endurance for decks with Swords?
- Children of Korlis: I assume this is so you can draw more with Griselbrand? Do you ever reanimate this or is it just a 1-of that if you draw is good?
- Do you side out Tendrils when you SB in the burning wishes?
- Why no Sire of Insanity?
It's a good card to Wish for if you have Griselbrand in hand and opponent is topdecking. Usually only good against lands, Miracles, and occaisionally Delver decks.- Stronghold Gambit: When do you wish for this? I assume vs decks that don't run creatures, but those decks are usually combo and can beat you T1 or T2. Do you just use it after a Thoughtseize?
Another "good-to-have" card in the board, the best Entomb-like option available as a sorcery.- Buried Alive: Is this for Deathrite Shaman decks so they can't remove all the creatures?
Karakas, actually. Swords to Plowshares rarely does anything.- You SB in Archetype of Endurance for decks with Swords?
In TinFins style, you use it to Tendrils them out game 1. There's enough fast mana that if you draw 14 you should be able to Entomb - Reanimate this most of the time and repeat as necessary until you can Tendrils them.- Children of Korlis: I assume this is so you can draw more with Griselbrand? Do you ever reanimate this or is it just a 1-of that if you draw is good?
Sometimes. The typical plan is to take out 1 of every sorcery you want to wish for. -1 Reanimate, -1 Exhume, -1 Thoughtseize, -1 Tendrils for +4 Wish. In matchups where you really want Reverent Silence, you bring in the extra 2 for 1 Unmask and 1 Jin-Gitaxias. In matchups where you want Archetype of Endurance, you trim a Chrome Mox as the last possible card you could board out, or a Jin-Gitaxias (going down to 2).- Do you side out Tendrils when you SB in the burning wishes?
I have lost games where I've made Sire of Insanity, usually due to being on the draw and opponent has Top, or when opponent finds Maze of Ith, Baleful Strix, Tarmogoyf (usually huge once hands are pitched), etc. It's just so much worse than Jin-Gitaxias in this deck because the draw 7 is at its best in this deck.- Why no Sire of Insanity?
Thanks, that helps a lot.
- You don't like Massacre? Seems like a good Wish target that we can play for free vs DnT, Maverick, etc.
- Also is Ashen Rider not needed? Seems good vs Pithing Needle(on Griselbrand), Rest in Peace, or Planeswalkers. I guess Revert Silence and Meltdown help there
Last edited by delfam; 06-05-2016 at 06:52 PM.
Hi everyone,
I'm new to Legacy and I'm building a budget version of Reanimator I plan to play at some local tournaments until I can afford the big cards to join the eldrazi crowd (please don't beat me ).
For these budget considerations, do you think it's a sacrilege (or a suicide) switching the Useas for some Watery Grave, and FOWs for Misdirections (not in the same numbers, probably supplied by some discard spells) ?
For information, my actual brewing look like this :
- 4 Watery Grave
- 1 Overgrown Tomb
- 4 Polluted Delta
- 2 Verdant Catacombs
- 1 Bloodstained Mire
- 1 Darkslick Shores
- 1 Swamp
- 1 Island
- 1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
- 1 Iona, Ehield of Emeria
- 1 Griselbrand
- 1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
- 1 Ashen Rider
- 1 Inkwell Leviathan
- 1 Empyrial Archangel
- 4 Lotus Petal
- 2 Animate Dead
- 4 Daze
- 2 Misdirection
- 4 Brainstorm
- 4 Entomb
- 4 Reanimate
- 4 Exhume
- 4 Careful Study
- 4 Dark ritual
- 1 Cabal Therapy
- 1 Duress
SB
- 4 Chancellor of the Annex
- 2 Pithing Needle
- 3 Ratchet Bomb
- 2 Spell Pierce
- 1 Mindbreak Trap
- 3 Nature's Claim
Don't have extra Griselbrand .
Thanks in advance for your help !
With so many shock lands you will need to probably switch to 4x Animate Dead and 2x Reanimate. The maindeck creature spread is probably a little too diverse (need more Grisel). It may also be more efficient to drop the blue (Daze + shocklands is pretty painful) and move to a more BR approach with Sire of Insanity and Faithless Looting. If you do stay blue with shocks/Daze/4x Reanimate, consider running 3-4 Gin-Gitaxias (in this case running 0-1 Grisel) as your primary target - but know that Dismember will cause you a lot of issues.
Thx for the answer, Fox.
What I fear with the B/R version is the lack of relevant answers to FOW and protection of the combo. Am I right or is the discard pack (Unmask + TS or Duress) sufficient ?
Cause in this case, the manabase will hurt a lot less (think I'll put 2 Blackcleave Cliffs and 1 or 2 Blood Crypt, basics and fetch for the rest).
As I have only one Griselbrand, I think I'll have to deal with this creature spread (probably add 1 Buried Alive as it let me choose what cards to put in my GY, but I know it sounds like Christmas Magic). I like a lot Sire of Insanity, but I see him dying on a lot of topdecks (Dismember, Tarmogoyf, Swords, etc.). Again, I may be wrong here.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts !
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