So I recently have been getting into Vintage. I just recently bought all the power I needed. I came up with this abomination of a deck. I do not get to playtest due to family but I would like some help.
Land - 15
1 x Library of Alexandria
4 x Scalding Tarn
2 x Misty Rainforest
4 x Island
2 x Underground Sea
1 x Tropical Island
1 x Volcanic Island
Planeswalkers - 3
1 x Chandra, the Firebrand
1 x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Creatures - 1
1 x Inkwell Leviathan
Spells - 41
1 x Black Lotus
1 x Mox Ruby
1 x Mox Emerald
1 x Mox Sapphire
1 x Mox Pearl
1 x Mox Jet
1 x Sol Ring
1 x Mana Crypt
1 x Time Vault
1 x Voltaic Key
1 x Ancestral Recall
1 x Time Walk
1 x Brainstorm
1 x Ponder
1 x Merchant Scroll
1 x Demonic Tutor
1 x Vampiric Tutor
1 x Mystical Tutor
1 x Gifts Ungiven
1 x Thirst for Knowledge
1 x Tinker
1 x Yawgmoth's Will
1 x Fastbond
1 x Regrowth
1 x Empty the Warrens
4 x Gush
4 x Mana Drain
4 x Mental Misstep
4 x Force of Will
I have always been a fan of Mana Drain and definitely wanted to play a drain control type deck. Gush seems like the best draw spell with exception to Necropotence, alas only 1 is allowed so I went with Gush. Planeswalkers, Inkwell, and EtW are the kill conditions. Chandra's -2 + Recall or Time Walk just makes me giddy.
I just wanted to throw it out there and see what improvements can be made.
Havent checked the Vintage section here in a while, but I have played a ton of Gush variations.
This is my current list:
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Fastbond
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Echoing Truth
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Nature's Claim
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Gush
1 Flusterstorm
3 Mental Misstep
3 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Regrowth
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Preordain
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Library of Alexandria
2 Island
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
Sideboard:
2 Dismember
1 Flusterstorm
4 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Nature's Claim
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Perish
1 Pithing Needle
2 Yixlid Jailer
The list has been insanely consistent, and fairly fast. It can also play the long game with some good controlling aspects. I used to play a storm variant with Timetwister and Tendrils of Agony, but Vault/Key has been better against Workshops for me.
I think Chandra is getting a little cute. With all the tutors I think I'd want access to Hurkyl's Recall ... if you add that it's pretty hard not to add Mana Vault given some of the big 3 holes in several cards in your deck.
Now that Regrowth is unrestricted, does this deck want to run 2-4?
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I've been dicking around with a Tendrils / Drain / Gush / Talrand list based on one off TCDecks. It has Drain and Gush, does that count as Drain Gush Control?
In any case, Talrand has been sweet (and really good!) and Tendrils has won me some games. I got to time walk 4 times in a row with Regrowths so that was sweet.
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I think some older lists used to Empty the Warrens for the same effect, then Time Walk to effectively use it like Tendrils. Talrand seems very much better. It looks more grindy than the Tendrils lists, while being better against Shops as well.
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Internets lists hardly ran 1 Regrowth. Don't understand why people would suddenly run it, unless it was a mistake to not run it before and there was a lemming effect.
Getting to cast Ancestral Recall 3+ times is much better than getting to only cast it twice via Snapcaster Mage. Even better, Snapcasting a Regrowth on Ancestral for more value. I think in a Gush deck, there stands a very good reason to run 3+ Regrowths right now, provided you don't go up against a Workshop matchup.
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Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
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That's the question. Sure you can build a strong gush storm deck w/ 3 or 4 Regrowths, but can you build one that doesn't roll over and die to Shops? I think that's significantly less clear. As I understand it, Workshop decks are what pushed Gush out of the NE US metagame, if that's true how does adding Regrowth make the deck a better option if you still have to cross your fingers and hope you don't play against Workshops?
Indeed, that's the challenge. I imagine that such builds would move towards less splash win-condition and instead opt for more Red splashes, including but not limited to:
Ancient Grudge
Lightning Bolt
Trygon Predator
Ingot Chewer (SB)
And instead of running Tendrils, play Empty the Warrens which allows the deck to not have to go "full in" to generate a lethal storm count. The Ancient Grudge approach has been quite popular in the past with such Gush Control decks too.
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Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
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Lotus Cobra maybe ... He can get nuts fast
It's an interesting question. Splashing red (either for Grudge/Bolt/Chewer or for Empty) certainly gives you a lot of tools, but it opens you up even more to wasteland. There's always the other direction, leaning more towards blue, with basic islands and only light splashes of green (Fastbond + Regrowth) and black (Vampiric and Demonic Tutor, mostly to find Fastbond). You'd want to be maindecking blue anti-shop stuff, hurkyl's, rebuild, steel sabotage, etc. The kill could be Talrand, with Jace backup, Trygon in the board.
Yeah, that's the direction I was heading based on a deck that did well over in Europe. It had 3 basic Island in the main which I really liked, with a couple trops and seas. The board was like 1 Forest, 4 Triangular Men, 3 Nature's Claim. I consistently get smashed by Shops with every deck I play so I'm certain that I don't know how to play the U vs. Shops matchup, but it seems like that + Force + Drain should be enough to slow them down...
Also the list I saw had 3 Repeal main. That card has been very good in pretty much every matchup.
I found that generating lethal storm really wasn't the issue, making BB was. But, Gush has this handy way of allowing you to pick up your Sea... I'm not saying that Empty is wrong, but Tendrils has been pretty clutch as a way to win against lethal on board.Originally Posted by Koby
Do you guys feel that the deck wants 2, 3, or 4 Jaces? Jace is soooooo good in Vintage, but sometimes I've felt a bit glutted at 4s with a Talrand, a Tendrils, and 3 Jace. Drain does help with that though.
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