What is esperblade's bad matchup?
Seems like half the field today at scg is playing esper.
RUG
Nic Fit
12 Post
From playing against I have found its weak spot is the manabase.Originally Posted by KobeBryan
There's always a lot of Esper at SCG opens it seems. The deck still isn't that exciting.
they run lots of fetch and lots of them even fetch basics first.
If the bad matchups are RUG, nic fit, and 12 post, that is a very good deck across the field.
Sneak&Show, Omni-Tell, Jund
Not sure about jund, but sneak show and omni tell seem to have a bad matchup against esper.
Mud seems to have a rather favorable matchup. Chalice on 1 is back breaking g1, Trinisphere on turn 1 is back breaking. Lodestone is good. Cavern is an MVP, as is lightning greaves.
Rug is good vs them as long as they don't have the all basics hand and you daze something along the way. The matchup is substantially better if you run the full 4 snares for stoneforge and fire/ice or forked bolt for souls.
I c h o r i d - my anti blue
Manaless Ichorid- At least its cheeper than standard.
We admit for the sake of the exercise that following is true:
Landstill > Fromat
Non-Basic Hate > Landstill
Basics > Non-Basic Hate
We can therefore logically conlude that
Basics > Format
Pretty much this. Minus RUG. If you know how to play against RUG, which includes playing around daze and stifle, you wont lose against RUG.
Nic Fit requires you to identify which version you are playing against, and then working on not letting their engine go off from there (the valakut version is the hardest on esper, IMHO). Sideboarding is tricky against them. Mostly a hard matchup for esper no matter the version of nic fit, or for any fair controling deck, really.
12 Post is indeed the worst matchup I can think of. not playing wasteland (and even then, if he wants to add wasteland to the list, he would have to dedicate to it, and not only play 1 or 2, like most stoneblade players do, which is just not enough, when the deck doesn't have the clock to go with it), and the fact that esper doesn't have the quickest of clocks makes that the post player will usually just produce a load of mana and shove an Emrakul down the esper player's throat. Esper has chances tho, but slim ones (usually involves thoughseizes, vandicates, snapcasters while beating with a clique). And even then, the minute a primeval titan enters the field, just scoop (can't beat Eye of Ugin. Seriously).
"Knowing how to play against RUG" makes the vast majority of decks immune to RUG. The fact that RUG is still one of the top decks in the format indicates that people either don't know how to play against it, or that playing around it is not as easy as you make it sound. Anyway, as far as Tier 1 decks are concerned, RUG is probably the best one if you're looking to have decent combo and Esper matchups. You bite it to Jund, but hey, nothing's perfect.
Generic Jund isn't favored against generic Esperblade because the latter is the control deck vs. a midrange deck, and because Esperblade is not as badly affected by discard thanks to flashback and planeswalkers. You can modify either deck to beat the other if you want, but it is still probably an uphill battle for Jund in the absence of a super-inbred meta. That Jund's combo matchups aren't atrocious makes it an attractive deck in Esper-light environments, but I would not want to go to an SCG Open with the deck without at least a few dedicated maindeck/sideboard slots for Esper.
Decks like MUD and 12Post show up infrequently and really shouldn't be considered "answer" decks in terms of metagame dynamics. There are a variety of rare decks that beat Esper or decks with strong Esper matchups that are nevertheless poorly positioned against the field at large; these are not going to dissuade people from running Esper because they should have low frequency in the Swiss.
In my experience, RUG is roughly 50-50 (slightly in favor of Esper, but depends on boards), Nic Fit is favorable for Esper (although I've heard the opposite), and 12-Post is a terrible matchup for Esper.
Sneak Attack is an unfavorable matchup, but not a lopsided one.
Punishing Jund is a pretty bad matchup, but regular Jund is fine.
Having extensive playtesting against a highly skilled Esper opponent, I can tell you first hand that their only bad matchup is 12-post. Otherwise, tight play and decent draws will make it an even or favored game.
I think they are favored against many of the decks and highly skilled pilots will take it as far as it needs to go. And the thought that anyone would even try and say that Sneak&Show is favored against them is laughable, -maybe- game one. But even game one, they're contending with ~8 counterspells, 4 discard, jace, karakas, supreme verdict and clique, which is pretty handy against them. Games two and three is just a huge blowout: more cliques, more counters, humility, more discard, I'd say Esper is heavily favored.
Punishing Jund is bad game one, which means sometimes they can pull it out in another game, but Rest In Peace literally shits on their entire deck and smart play will dictate that it likely won't be abrupt decayed.
Sayin that Nic Fit is a bad matchup is pretty hilarious. Maybe the scapeshift version because they don't run Wasteland (or shouldn't)? Otherwise Nic Fit is wildly in their favor.
The thing about esper is that you can tune it a lot depending on what you expect and therefore put up an even to slightly positive fight against a wide field (if you are a skilled player). I agree 12 Post is the matchup coming to mind where tuning won't do much.
From the prison decks I think MUD is not a bad matchup. Lands and enchantress are surely more painful.
Currently playing: Elves
Just play Humility...I agree 12 Post is the matchup coming to mind where tuning won't do much.
This. The reason Esper is a popular deck is due to its lack of horrid MUs. The colors allow for pretty much any type of SB to beat whatever you want, and with an experienced pilot with Optimal play skill it is a great deck. It doesnt have any serious overwhelming match ups in its favor, but it has the ability to beat anything as well which is why it is so popular in large tourneys with a bunch of random decks.The thing about esper is that you can tune it a lot depending on what you expect and therefore put up an even to slightly positive fight against a wide field (if you are a skilled player). I agree 12 Post is the matchup coming to mind where tuning won't do much.
From the prison decks I think MUD is not a bad matchup. Lands and enchantress are surely more painful.
I've played both decks, and I'd be very happy to be on the Sneak Attack side of the table.
Game one, Esper usually has 6 counterspells: 3 Forces, 1 Counterspell, 2 Pierces (which line up horribly against Sneak Attack's ramp and 9-11 counterspells, 7-8 of which are free). 4 discard spells are solid, but 2 of them are usually Inquisition of Kozilek which hits Show and Tell but not the other enabler or the fatties (or most of the protection for that matter). Clique is good against the Show and Tell plan but gets run as a one-of. Ditto Karakas, but only against Emrakul. Jace is a strong play if you can stabilize (or against a Show and Tell -> Emrakul) on turn 3 or later. Supreme Verdict is usually a one-of and answers both Emrakul and Griselbrand, but you'll have to tap out and contend with their new 7-14 cards if they dropped Griselbrand, and unlike having a Jace, you don't even get to keep a planeswalker in play. Not to mention that Sneak Attack runs 8-10 cantrips (compared to Esper's 5-6) which allows it to not only dig for business very quickly, but also protect important cards from discard.
Game two, Esper can bring in usually a second Clique, a Force of Will, maybe a few Flusterstorms, and perhaps two discard spells (plus Sword of Feast and Famine). Maybe a faster clock in Geist too if they opt to do so. Humility would be awesome against Show and Tell (or against Sneak as well if you can resolve it before they go off), but I don't think many Esper decks run it, and only as a one-of with no Tutor at best. Sneak Attack can bring in some combination of Red Elemental Blasts, Defense Grid to essentially nullify your countermagic, and Leyline of Sanctity to just shut down all your discard spells and Cliques.
If you're playing Miracles, slam fucking Baneslayer Angel postboard. At least that's how we did it last year and it was pretty freaking cool AND good.
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
I'll second (third?) that Esperblade has a poor matchup against Show and Tell decks, especially Hive Mind. They have fewer counterspells, very little discard, and a slow clock.
"Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."
Sure as hell sounds like fun.
Yup, BSA is a beast in the matchup, but she's lost a lot of ground elsewhere unfortunately.
Perhaps he's just very well prepared for it then, he hasn't lost to it in tournament play yet. This was the list he ran through a recent Jupiter tournament with and it's at least similar to what he is running now: http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/44193
More relevantly, it's prevalent in our meta and being prepared for it is a must.
So maindeck:
6 counterspells
4 discard
1 clique
1 karakas
1 verdict
postboard:
+1 humility
+1 supreme verdict
+1 force
+2 flusterstorm
+1 clique
+1 duress
+1 sword of feast and famine
Which puts him at:
10 counters
5 discard
2 board wipes
2 clique
humility
karakas
jace
Or something like that. If that's considered unfavorable against Sneak&Tell then the deck should be stone-cold raping every tournament and it's not even close.
Between ponder, brainstorm, and Jace it's not hard to find your 1-of's.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote
