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    [Primer/Deck] Burn



    One of the longest running strategies in Legacy is to just "burn" the opponent out, literally casting burn in Lightning Bolt & variants of 1 cast 3 damage spells, or other similarly effective cards. On top of that, the mono red deck is one of the cheapest strategies you can play that has had the level of success it's achieved in the format.

    1) Playing Burn
    2) Successful decklists & trends
    3) Card Choices
    3a) Maindeck
    3b) Sideboard
    4) Price Guide
    5) Awesome Links
    6) Previous Burn thread http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...7811-Deck-Burn special thanks to Peter_Rotten
    7) 20 Match ups


    1) Playing Burn:
    Overall strategy Your ultimate goal, like any deck, is to win the match, more specifically with burn, it's to just go all out aggressive, burn the opponent down from 20 to 0 as fast as possible, whether the opponent is playing combo, aggro, control or whatever, you are pushing to win the game as fast as possible and take the win before they do anything relevant, the hardest match up's will be those that are just faster than you, mostly being combo decks, while most other match up's will just be a race through their own clock for lethal and/or their disruption when they have it.

    Starting hand Mostly you'll be looking for hands that are mostly burn and a couple lands, the strategy for the deck is just all out aggression, so as long as you're doing something you're doing your job, if you mulligan it will almost always be based on the land count, or lack there of.

    Turns 1-2 You'll want to start out with a creature drop if you have it, specifically Goblin Guide since over the course of turns it has the potential to do 2 damage over and over again, depending on the strategy you're going against, if it keeps connecting to the opponent each turn. Grim Lavamancer also has the potential to do 2 damage recurring, however it will cost 1 per each activation, but does not require an attack step. After that you'll want to burn your Lava Spikes & Flame Rifts since they can only hit the opponent anyway. Rift Bolt also takes a turn to hit when you suspend it, so it's another you'll want to cast earlier.

    Turn's 3 & later This is more where you'll cast your other burn spells Lightning Bolt & Chain Lightning because you may want it as removal against some creatures, while Price of Progress may do more damage because the more non basics the opponent has in play, the more damage it can hit for. Sulfuric Vortex, especially against slower decks, will also come down, with the potential to finish them off with a "soft lock" that does 2 damage every one of their upkeeps, & the ability to prevent lifegain against stuff like Baterskull as an example, so they don't catch up & you can finish them off with burn when they're stuck at low life from your earlier aggression. Your other "finisher" would be Fireblast since once they are at 4 or less life, you can just finish them off right there for "free" at the cost of 2 mountains, preventing them from getting to another turn in a chance to turn the game around by just killing them right there. Without disruption, your average damage will be lethal, 20 damage, on turn 4.

    "Goldfishing" / "Practicing" Similar to a combo deck, you can get a basic feel for the deck even just by playing solitaire, sitting & playing it out while counting to 20, trying to do that much damage as fast as you can & seeing what turn you're on when you put out that much. In doing so, you'll see that while the average turn is 4, sometimes you can even do enough damage on turn 3, usually with the help of Fireblast or a turn 1 Goblin Guide that does 2 damage per turn, over the course of each attack phase. This, however, is just a base, as playing against an actual opponent they will likely have some interactions with you, many of which may come down to whether or not to burn a creature, burn the opponent, or even save it for a turn before committing.

    Additional notes: by Justin
    When playing Burn, you don't always want to aim every spell at the opponent's dome. There are certain creatures that you will want to kill, especially if it's turn one and you are on the draw. A turn one Goblin Lackey, for example, is something that you will usually want to get off the board. You also want to kill early creatures from aggressive decks that can outrace you, including the mirror-match, UR Burn, and WR Sligh. If an opponent drops an early Goblin Guide, Delver of Secrets, Grim Lavamancer, or Steppe Lynx, you will need to kill those creature. You also need to be prepared to take out creatures that can gain life against you, such as Deathrite Shaman. Sometimes you have no choice but to throw a Fireblast at a Germ token with Batterskull. So playing this deck is not just about goldfishing to do 20 damage to the opponents dome. You need to realize when to adjust your strategy and interact with your opponent's board.

    On the question of which bolt spells to cast first, I usually favor Rift Bolt. The reason is that you have to wait a turn to cast it for R, so it's best to cast them early. When your strategy is to do 20 damage ASAP, I would value the one-drops in this order: Goblin Guide, Grim Lavamancer, Rift Bolt, Lava Spike, Chain Lighting, and Lighting Bolt. When you are concerned about removing your opponent's creatures this might change to: Grim Lavamancer, Goblin Guide, Lava Spike, Rift Bolt, Chain Lightning, and Lightning Bolt.

    History: Burn, mono red, etc, these full aggression strategies have been a long time deck in Magic for years, but the breakout for burn strategies in recent Legacy would be 2011, followed by 2012 which had even more success.

    2) Successful decklists & trends: from here http://www.starcitygames.com/pages/decklists/ & http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/for...=Legacy&page=1
    2009:
    9th place - David Kilmartin SCG Boston (187 players)
    15th place - Gene Richtsmeier SCG St Louis (128 players)

    2010:
    29th place - Patrick Sullivan GP Columbus (1,397 players)
    2nd place - Kyle Miller SCG Denver (125 players)

    2011:
    6th place - David Menor Gutierrez - Open City of Bridges, Spain (171 players)
    5th place - Patrick Sullivan SCG Los Angeles (216 players)
    7th place - Michele Salardi - Legnano-MLL#8 (116 players)
    1st place - Manuel Gomez - LCL Lliga Catalana de Legacy 4, Abril, inGenio (118 players)
    14th place - Iain Bartolomei SCG Denver (117 players)
    15th place - Jacob Shapiro SCG Cincinnati (228 players)
    8th place - Luisma Augusto - Eternal Weekend 2011 Legacy Main Event (293 players)
    8th place - Samuel Davis SCG Kansas (156 players)
    8th place - Austin Yost SCG Las Vegas (168 players)

    2012:
    1st place - Austin Yost SCG Washington (234 players)
    1st place - James Allen SCG Richmond (118 players)
    11th place - Cary Duncan SCG Cincinnati (297 players)
    2nd place - Anthony Phaneuf SCG Memphis (94 players)
    13th place - Lou Stefanovic SCG Tampa (141 players)
    16th place - Jeremy Dunn SCG Tampa (141 players)
    11th place - Issac Sears SCG Sacramento (116 players)
    5th place - Burt Hamernick SCG Des Moines (148 players)
    7th place - Niklas Rauterberg - Legacy Event in Maintal (127 players)
    5th place - Robert Swiecki - Magiccardmarket 5th anniversary tournament (131 players)
    15th place - James Syed SCG Worchester (213 players)
    32nd place - Lou Stefanovic SCG Worchester (213 players)
    30th place - Burt Hamernick SCG Indianapolis (313 players)
    14th place - Jay Shield SCG Washington DC (350 players)
    19th place - Charles R Dyk 2012 Gen Con Legacy Championship (350 players)
    30th place - Charles Fitzgerald 2012 Gen Con Legacy Championship (350 players)
    3rd place - Patrick Sullivan SCG Los Angeles (235 players)
    8th place - Ali Aintrazi SCG Invitational Atlanta (311 players)
    21st place - Joel Gibson SCG Dallas (175 players)
    9th place - Jacob Dobbs SCG Los Angeles (269 players)

    2013:
    31st place - Michael Shelkofsky SCG Atlanta (230 players)
    16th place - Jacob Harris SCG Cincinnati (279 players)
    12th place - Jacob Dobbs SCG Las Vegas (142 players)
    3rd place - Doug Honeycutt SCG Atlanta (349 players)
    16th place - Jeremy Maciolek SCG Atlanta (349 players)
    22nd place - Jacob Pettie - Tales of Tales of Adventure - Coopersburg, PA (186 plyers)

    2014:
    12th place - Hugo Villamor SCG Orlando (239 players)
    5th place - Eddie Chalecki - LCL 2014, March (121 players) Deathburn
    6th place - Joey Lively SCG Dallas (308 players)
    4th place - Gentile Simone - Evil 10, Padova, Tarmogeddon 9 (205 players)
    14th place - Jon Thiel SCG Indianapolis (346 players)
    14th place - Lou Stefanovic SCG Providence (302 players)
    16th place - Jamie Syed SCG Providence (302 players)
    9th place - John Ware SCG Las Vegas (232 players)
    1st place - Bryan Cambidge SCG Las Vegas (232 players)
    9th place - Forrest Ashmore SCG Portland (296 players)
    4th place - Charlie Mitchell SCG Worcester (290 players)
    7th place - Brian Cooper SCG Kansas City (256 players)
    23rd place - Kevin Stanley SCG Kansas City (256 players)
    29th place - Logan Martin SCG Kansas City (256 players)
    13th place - Matthew Long - Tales of Adventure Eternal Extravaganza (266 players)
    8th place - Alex Johnson SCG Syracuse (230 players)
    11th place - Ben Burchett SCG Washington DC (285 players)
    8th place - Robert Wright SCG Atlanta (263 players)
    8th place - Jackson Smith SCG Indianapolis (260 players)
    9th place - Jim Davis SCG Worcester (225 players)
    3rd place - Oliver Coffey SCG Portland (228 players)
    8th place - Florian Stange - JK Legacy Cup (153 players)

    2015:
    6th place - Cameron Ramsay SCG Indianapolis (582 players)
    16th place - Ben Henkes SCG Houston (143 players)
    9th place - Trent Avera SCG Dallas (190 players)
    7th place - Jacob Shannon SCG Syracuse (107 players)
    14th place - Nicholas Herbs SCG Syracuse (107 players)
    1st place - Adam Minniear SCG Indianapolis (121 players)
    4th place - John Taylor SCG Charlotte (80 players)
    12th place - Cristiano Silva - Impact Returns Legacy Event (107 players)
    5th place - Andrew Croy SCG Cincinnati (119 players)
    7th place - Austin Casey SCG Cincinnati (119 players)
    16th place - Jared Welsh SCG Cincinnati (119 players)
    25th place - Chase Harrell SCG Indianapolis (130 players)
    30th place - Kyle Beltran SCG Indianapolis (130 players)
    16th place - Jon Janssen SCG Atlanta (95 players)
    11th place - Trent Avera SCG Dallas (98 players)
    1st place - John Nickel - GP SeaTac Trial winner
    26th place - Kian Dre - GP SeaTac (2014 players)
    5th place - Ben Stecher SCG Denver (80 players)
    5th place - Henti Nuuttila - Finnish Legacy Championship (109 players)
    6th place - Tuomas Tarna - Finnish Legacy Championship (109 players)

    3) Card choices:

    3a) Maindeck: (most common in recent trends in bold)
    Creature:
    Grim Lavamancer Repeatable 2 damage based on 1 mana & 2 cards in graveyard, overall the best "pinger" available for the deck
    Goblin Guide 2/2 with haste, overall the best 1 drop attacker for the deck
    Eidolon of the Great Revel A newer staple as of recent, Pyrostatic Pillar on legs
    Monastery Swiftspear A newer, though less common staple. Works like a "mini combo" with your non creature spells
    Keldon Marauders 3/3 for 2 with vanishing, that does 1 damage coming into play & leaving play. Though the most recent lists have gone to more straight burn
    Hellspark Elemental 3/1 for 2 haste trample, can be replayed from the graveyard for 2. Though the most recent lists have gone to more straight burn
    Vexing Devil less common As most recent lists run more straight burn
    Figure of Destiny less common As most recent lists run more straight burn

    Instant:
    Fireblast 4 damage for "free" at the cost of 2 mountains, a staple for Legacy burn decks as a "finisher"
    Lightning Bolt 3 damage for 1 mana, a staple for Legacy burn decks
    Price of Progress Damage based on non basic lands, as most Legacy decks run more non basics, a Legacy burn staple
    Searing Blaze Seen more commonly lately
    Searing Blood Not as common as Searing Blaze but also in some lists

    Sorcery:
    Rift Bolt 3 damage to any target, cast for 3, or suspend for 1
    Chain Lightning 3 damage to any target
    Lava Spike 3 damage targeting players
    Flame Rift 4 damage against all players

    Other:
    Sulfuric Vortex 2 damage on upkeep, stops lifegain

    Land: (Average around 20 lands, anywhere from 8-12 fetchlands)
    Mountain
    Bloodstained Mire Wooded Foothills Scalding Tarn Arid Mesa Fetchlands, Grim Lavamancer fuel
    Barbarian Ring (2 in some lists) 2 damage with threshold

    3b) Sideboard:
    ~Graveyard hate:
    Tormod's Crypt 0 cast
    Relic of Progenitus Cantrips
    Faerie Macabre "Uncounterable"
    Leyline of the Void Starts in play
    Grafdigger's Cage Also affects stuff from the library
    Surgical Extraction "Free" to cast, removes all copies
    ~Blue hate:
    Vexing Shusher Uncounterable & makes other spells so
    Pyroblast Destroy blue permanent, counter blue spell
    Red Elemental Blast Destroy blue permanent, counter blue spell
    Burnout Counter blue instant, draw a card next upkeep
    Volcanic Fallout 2 damage to creatures, uncounterable
    ~Artifact hate:
    Smash to Smithereens Destroy artifact, do 3 damage
    Shattering Spree Can hit multiple artifacts
    ~Sweepers:
    Pyroclasm 2 damage to all creatures
    Ratchet Bomb Destroys based on converted mana cost
    Flamebreak 3 damage to all creatures, 3 players
    Pyrokinesis 4 damage divided, with alternate casting cost
    ~Burn:
    Pyrostatic Pillar Good against cheap, fast decks
    Searing Blaze 3 damage to creature & player, with Landfall
    Sulfuric Vortex 2 damage on upkeep, anti life gain
    ~Other:
    Pithing Needle Affects activated, non mana abilities
    Phyrexian Revoker "Pithing needle" with legs
    Reverberate Copy an instant, sorcery spell
    Reroute Retarget an activated ability
    Phyrexian Metamorph Copy an artifact or creature
    Ensnaring Bridge Especially against Show and Tell decks
    Mindbreak Trap Usually against combo decks

    4) Price guide of more known burn cards: As of March 2013 (For the most current prices, click on the link of each card) High-Mid-Low according to http://magiccards.info/ & http://magic.tcgplayer.com/all_magic_sets.asp
    $20.00 to $50.00:
    Bloodstained Mire $42.97 $37.29 $31.25
    Wooded Foothills $41.18 $34.69 $29.47
    Scalding Tarn $44.39 $34.80 $30.95
    Arid Mesa $39.98 $24.57 $20.89

    $10.00 to $20.00:
    Chain Lightning $16.03 $13.15 $10.87

    $5.00 to $10.00:
    Goblin Guide $10.99 $7.02 $4.92
    Vexing Devil $8.95 $7.54 $6.20

    $2.00 to $5.00:
    Price of Progress $4.99 $3.80 $2.85
    Lava Spike $4.35 $3.56 $2.84
    Sulfuric Vortex $6.17 $4.08 $3.24

    $1.00 to $2.00:
    Grim Lavamancer $2.97 $1.84 $0.95
    Hellspark Elemental $2.50 $1.67 $1.04
    Rift Bolt $2.88 $1.93 $1.20
    Flame Rift $2.05 $1.30 $0.95

    $1.00 or less average:
    Keldon Marauders $0.74 $0.36 $0.20
    Fireblast $1.65 $0.98 $0.67
    Lightning Bolt $1.63 $0.95 $0.74
    Mountain $129.98(Guru) $6.09(Unhinged) $5.00(Unglued) $3.99(Beta) $0.75(Zendikar) $0.03(Basic)


    5) Awesome Links: In relation to Burn & Legacy
    Price trends of Singles:
    http://www.mtgprice.com/sets/4th_Edition/Lightning_Bolt

    Burn articles/reports/etc:
    2014:
    http://www.starcitygames.com/article...-Counters.html Burn against Counters (Patrick Sullivan)
    2013:
    http://www.essentialmagic.com/em2/Do...318&hdocpage=1 Essentialmagic.com
    http://blog.mtgdeals.com/flongmore/i...-time-to-burn/ Burn article, MTGdeals (Feline Longmore)

    2012:
    http://starcitygames.com/events/cove...derson_ru.html Feature match, Burn in the top 8, SCG Invitational Atlanta (Ali Aintrazi)
    http://www.starcitygames.com/article...ek---Burn.html Article, after the two SCG 1st place wins (Patrick Sullivan)
    http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...f_vs_zac_.html Feature match, Burn in the finals, SCG Memphis (Anthony Phoneuf)
    http://www.starcitygames.com/events/..._vs_james.html Feature match, Burn in the finals, SCG Richmond (James Allen)
    http://www.starcitygames.com/events/..._josh_cho.html Feature match, Burn in the finals, SCG Washington (Austin Yost)

    2011:
    http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/s...eport-5th.html Article, playing burn (Patrick Sullivan)

    Burn decklist sources:
    Starcitygames.com Burn
    http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/tip...&format=Legacy

    Legacy metagame:
    http://www.starcitygames.com/pages/decklists/
    http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/for...=Legacy&page=1
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...y(started-2012)

    6) The previous Burn thread: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...7811-Deck-Burn & special thanks to Peter_Rotten as well as everyone else that participated in the thread since it's creation in 2007.
    Last edited by feline; 12-14-2015 at 06:55 PM. Reason: Update
    Primary legacy deck High Tide primer

  2. #2
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    7) Match ups
    01) RUG (Aggro, Moderate playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
    They are a tempo based aggro deck, using Nimble Mongoose Tarmogoyf & Delver of Secrets backed up by counterspells and a little burn in the form of Lightning bolt & sometimes Forked bolt or Chain Lightning. For the most part the match up will just be a race.

    02) Esperblade (Control, Moderate-Heavy playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
    They are a control type deck, using counterspells & discard as disruption, along with card advantage. Their potential kill conditions will be Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Stoneforge Mystic, Batterskull, Snapcaster Mage. Batterskull specifically will set you back as it gives them a 4/4 Lifelinker that doesn't tap to attack, so if they net it with a Stoneforge Mystic, don't let it put a Batterskull into play unless they're low enough to burn out before that happens.

    03) UW Control variants (Control, Moderate-Heavy playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
    They are a control deck with counterspells & some removal, they also have the option of Counterbalance Sensei's Divining Top to potentially counter your spells. Their kill conditions will either be Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Entreat the Angels, Stoneforge Mystic, Vendilion Clique and/or Snapcaster Mage & in some lists, Helm of Obedience + Rest in Peace combo.

    04) BUG aggro (Aggro, Moderate playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
    They are an aggro deck, backed up by counterspells/discard & some removal, including Abrupt Decay, their kill conditions will be Delver of Secrets Deathrite Shaman Tarmogoyf & possibly Tombstalker. Deathrite Shaman has the potential for life gain as well as doing damage to your life total or producing mana, while the remaining creatures are more basic. More midrange strategies will be a little slower, & possibly even running Dark Confidant, Shardless Agent & Ancestral Vision. For the most part this will be a race between both sides as to who hits their lethal first.

    05) BUG control (Control, Moderate-Heavy playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
    They are a control deck with counterspells, discard & removal, as well as the planeswalkers Liliana of the Veil and Jace, the Mind Sculptor, they also usually run Tarmogoyf and Deathrite Shaman as well as the possibility of Vendilion Clique. Again, watch out for Deathrite Shaman as it has the potential for life gain to set back your burn strategy.

    06) Jund (Aggro, Moderate playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
    They are an aggro strategy backed up by burn & card advantage, possibly some discard in the form of Thoughtseize / Inquisition of Kozilek. Their card advantage will come from Hymn to Tourach Dark Confidant & Bloodbraid Elf, as well as Sylvan Library & Punishing Fire, though since you are a burn strategy, their Library will not net them many cards & the Punishing Fire combo will only affect your creatures for the most part. They also run Deathrite Shaman so watch out for potential life gain. For the most part it will be a race on both sides as to who can get to their lethal first, however they have the potential for card advantage the longer the game goes on so try to kill them earlier.

    07) Dredge (Combo, Light playtesting required)
    They are an aggressive combo deck that will work off of their graveyard to swarm you, Dredging cards to their graveyard by drawing them & milling themselves, while putting Ichorid & Narcomeba into pay, while triggering 2/2 zombie tokens off of Bridge from Below. Casting Cabal Therapy and Dread Return from their graveyard for their flashback costs.

    08) Maverick (Aggro, Light-Moderate playtesting recommended)
    They are an aggro deck with lots of disruptive creatures, the ones to watch out for that will affect you are Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, which will make your non creature spells cost 1 more, Scavenging Ooze because it can gain them life & grow, Gaddock Teeg because it can prevent you from casting Fireblast, & Stoneforge Mystic because it can net a Batterskull or Umezawa's Jitte. For the most part it will be a race between both sides as to who can get to their lethal first, though the longer the game goes the better chance they have to stabilize, throug their lifegain and large arsenal of creatures, so try to win earlier than later.

    09) Ad Nauseam Storm decks (Combo, Light playtesting required)
    They are a fast combo deck that will try to finish you off with either lethal storm Trendrils of Agony or an early Empty the Warrens for enough 1/1's to kill you faster than you can kill them. For the most part this is just a race as to who gets to their lethal first, though they are usually faster.

    10) High Tide (Combo, Light playtesting required)
    They are a slower combo deck that will likely wait until their last turn before your lethal to go off, then cast a complicated set of spells that include card draw, untap effects & High Tides. For the most part this is just a race as to who gets to their lethal first, though they will never go off before their turn 3. One thing to note is if you're getting low on burn spells, having untapped mountains in play when they Time Spiral can still get you to lethal if they don't draw into any counterspells after a resolved Spiral.

    11) UR Delver (Aggro, Light-Moderate playtesting recommended)
    They are an aggro deck with counterspells & burn, running a similar strategy as your own, but also running blue for card draw & counters. For the most part this match will mostly be a race between the 2 decks, though winning faster is optimal since they have the ability to draw more cards, as well as net card advantage with things like Snapcaster Mage.

    12) Show and Tell variants (Combo, Light-Moderate playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
    They are a combo deck that will try to cheat a bomb into play by resolving Show and Tell or Sneak Attack to put Griselbrand / Emrakul, the Aeons Torn into play and finish you off, Griselbrand has lifelink & the potential to draw 7 cards, though at the cost of 7 life, while Emrakul will make you sacrifice 6 permanents if it gets to swing at you during an attack phase. They will likely be faster than you, however preventing them from having too much life can stop them from drawing any cards off of the Griselbrand.

    13) Reanimator (Combo, Light playtesting required)
    They are a combo deck that will cheat a bomb into play from the graveyard. Usually Griselbrand Iona, Shield of Emeria as their main targets. If you burn them down fast enough then they might not even be able to cast Reanimate since they lose life off of reanimating, while drawing cards off of Griselbrand are also prevented if their life is low enough. Aside from that, it is just a race as to who gets to their lethal first.

    14) Elves (Combo, Light-Moderate playtesting recommended)
    They are a tribal combo/aggro type deck, though more combo related as their key cards will be Glimpse of Nature Natural Order & possibly Green Sun's Zenith into Craterhoof Behemoth or Regal Force. Try to keep them off of too many elves, but at the same time focus on burning them down before they can have a huge turn. They also may run Deathrite Shaman so watch out for the potential life gain from it at +2 per turn. In the end it will be a race while you may be able to slow them down since alot of what they push usually involves getting out a number of elves.

    15) Merfolk (Aggro, Light-Moderate playtesting recommended)
    They are a tribal aggro deck that is backed up by disruption in the form of counterspells, as well as some card draw. They have the potential to put out alot in one turn when the previous they may have only had 1 or 2 merfolk in play, because they can Vial one into play at the end of your turn, then vial another one in on their turn, as well as playing another one, then activating a Mutavault & swinging for huge amounts where as before it was significantly less. Other than that it's mostly just creatures coming down with counterspell/card draw back up that will be a race to burn them out before they can get you for lethal.

    16) Goblins (Aggro, Light-Moderate playtesting recommended)
    They are a tribal aggro deck with a focus on card advantage & the ability to swarm you with tons of goblins the longer the game goes on, though their earlier plays will be less significant if you prevent turn 1 Goblin Lackeys from connecting with you, preventing them from dropping goblins into play early for free. Aside from that it's just a race, burn them out before they get to the point of swinging with enough goblins to kill you.

    17) Zombies (Aggro, Light playtesting recommended, however a less common match up)
    They are an aggro deck that takes advantage of Cabal Therapy Goblin Bombardment & Carrion Feeder with stuff like Gravecrawler Bloodghast & Lingering Souls. They also run disruption in the form of Tidehollow Sculler & Thoughtseize. They also may run Deathrite Shaman which can set back your burn with it's lifegain. In the end it will be a race through their recurring creatures & disruption to kill them before they overwhelm you.

    18) Belcher (Combo, Light playtesting recommended)
    They are an all in combo deck that will likely go off 1st turn, setting out an army of 1/1's or a Goblin Charbelcher that will hit you for lethal. It is an all out race on both sides, but they will likely be faster than you, & you won't likely even know that they're playing belcher until they go off.

    19) 12 post (Ramp/Combo, Light playtesting recommended, however a less common match up)
    They are a ramp deck with combo elements. Putting out Cloudpost as many times as they can, in order to cast huge Eldrazi creatures like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn Kozilek, Butcher of Truth & Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre. They will also have access to Primeval Titam & Show and Tell. Since you're playing burn, it is also worth noting they have access to Glimmerpost which can gain them life, buying them another turn to cast a creature & start trying to stabilize. In the end it will be a race to kill them before they get out a huge creature & start swinging at you.

    20) Burn The mirror match! (Moderate playtesting recommended)
    If a mirror match happens, being on the play -vs- being on the draw can make the difference, whether it's just killing them faster before they can take you out, or just card advantage if you keep going back and forth into a top deck mode, since Flame Rift hits both sides, try to cast it last or as a finisher since you'll be burning yourself, essentially paying 2 to take yourself down for 4 which will help them in their strategy as well as help you, but you're paying the mana and they are not. Also try to get creatures out as much as you can if you're running them, posing as many threats as you can to put them on the defensive
    Last edited by feline; 03-31-2014 at 11:07 AM. Reason: Update
    Primary legacy deck High Tide primer

  3. #3

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    I'll add a few things about playing Burn.

    1) When playing Burn, you don't always want to aim every spell at the opponent's dome. There are certain creatures that you will want to kill, especially if it's turn one and you are on the draw. A turn one Goblin Lackey, for example, is something that you will usually want to get off the board. You also want to kill early creatures from aggressive decks that can outrace you, including the mirror-match, UR Burn, and WR Sligh. If an opponent drops an early Goblin Guide, Delver of Secrets, Grim Lavamancer, or Steppe Lynx, you will need to kill those creature. You also need to be prepared to take out creatures that can gain life against you, such as Deathrite Shaman. Sometimes you have no choice but to throw a Fireblast at a Germ token with Batterskull. So playing this deck is not just about goldfishing to do 20 damage to the opponents dome. You need to realize when to adjust your strategy and interact with your opponent's board.

    2) On the question of which bolt spells to cast first, I usually favor Rift Bolt. The reason is that you have to wait a turn to cast it for R, so it's best to cast them early. When your strategy is to do 20 damage ASAP, I would value the one-drops in this order: Goblin Guide, Grim Lavamancer, Rift Bolt, Lava Spike, Chain Lighting, and Lighting Bolt. When you are concerned about removing your opponent's creatures this might change to: Grim Lavamancer, Goblin Guide, Lava Spike, Rift Bolt, Chain Lightning, and Lightning Bolt.

    3) I would argue that Grim Lavamancer and Fetchlands are optional and not a staple of four in Burn. Lavamancer is great at killing small creatures, but he slows Burn down, especially if your opponent plays spell that can exile cards in your graveyard and take away Lavamaner's "food."

    4) Keldon Marauders is more common that you give it credit for. It's potentially five damage for two mana and is a strong option for decks that don't run Lavamancer.

    5) Hellspark Elemental was becoming quite common in Burn, before the printing of Deathrite Shaman. It's potentially six damage in one card.

    6) I agree that Flame Rift and Sulfuric Vortex are staples, but I don't think that it is mandatory to run four of each. I would say that 2-4 is more appropriate. The "core" cards that require a mandatory four are: Goblin Guide, the four "bolt" spells, Fireblast, and Price of Progress.
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  4. #4

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Thank for creating this primer feline. The new primer is great.

    I am really interested in the match ups. Needless to say it's much easier to goldfish than playing an actual match with Burn. Knowing what options Burn have in different match ups is really important. Perhaps you could add a SB Tech/Meta Call section in the match ups. This would give every Burn enthusiast a better idea of the options and potential tricks the deck has.

  5. #5

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Here is some super secret tech:


    Pyromancer's Swath
    Ensnaring Bridge
    Flame Jab


    Swath gives you more damage for all burn spells. Bridge keeps nasty creatures at bay. Jab makes your mountains into burn spells.

    Swath + jab = every spell is at least a lightning bolt.

    Swath + Bridge = Always have empty hand.

    Swaths stack.


    I know how janky it is, but it might be an option if we want to go creatureless.

  6. #6
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Awesome primer! So much information!

  7. #7

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn


    4 Goblin Guide
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    //Enchantment (2)
    2 Sulfuric Vortex
    //Enchantment Creature (4)
    4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
    //Instant (15)
    4 Fireblast
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Price of Progress
    2 Searing Blaze
    1 Searing Blood
    //Sorcery (12)
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Lava Spike
    4 Rift Bolt
    //Land (20)
    3 Arid Mesa
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    11 Mountain
    3 Wooded Foothills

    //Sideboard
    3 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Searing Blaze
    1 Searing Blood
    3 Skullcrack
    3 Smash to Smithereens
    4 Tormod's Crypt


    Deck! Went 4-3-2 with this at SCG Portland- not super well, but I'm not the best player. :P

    I want to make room for 3 Hellspark Elemental. Thinking of taking out a Fireblast, a Price of Progress, and maybe a Rift Bolt. Any thoughts?

    Also, I think my sideboard sucks. Please help? :)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamajellydonut View Post

    Blood Moon is a card that can singlehandedly win games against the right decks. Unfortunately, it doesn't deal damage, it tops out the curve, sucks in multiples, and is useless mid-late game. If you're ok with the above, which many are, tossing 1x in the sideboard can be one of the most clutch things you've ever done.

    Simian Spirit Guide, Moxen, etc, are the most useless things in Burn. Having that turn 3/4 win is awesome, but realistically it doesn't matter how fast you win so long as you do. Simian Spirit Guide and all its acceleration brethren deny you of cards and ultimately slow the deck down as you have less damage done.
    It's also worth stating that most decks that run basics fetch them first vs burn because of pop anyway. Those that don't usually counter/decay it.
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  9. #9

    Has anyone tested young pyromancer in burn yet???

  10. #10

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Am I correct if I say City in a bottle really kills mono red burn if you have a way to deal with any resolved non-land permanents since you have no mana left to play anything??

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by vennie View Post
    Am I correct if I say City in a bottle really kills mono red burn if you have a way to deal with any resolved non-land permanents since you have no mana left to play anything??
    I do not understand this question. City in a Bottle does very little as almost no one plays with Arabian Nights cards. It is erated to only target cards from the set, not cards that are reprints so it does not hose land if thats what you are meaning.
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  12. #12
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by vennie View Post
    Am I correct if I say City in a bottle really kills mono red burn if you have a way to deal with any resolved non-land permanents since you have no mana left to play anything??
    Prior to the rule change, if you were playing someone with a 100% AN mountains yes, it would be effective.
    Since the 13th of July, an errata on the rule changed all that. It won't affect them since their original printing was Alpha.
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  13. #13

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Kayradis View Post
    Prior to the rule change, if you were playing someone with a 100% AN mountains yes, it would be effective.
    Since the 13th of July, an errata on the rule changed all that. It won't affect them since their original printing was Alpha.



    Wait...

    Why would someone sane play with all AN Mountain in Burn? Get a life!
    Ah, I guess i just made a mistake here. Thought it now hit all cards printed in AN, but it now is all cards that were first printed in AN.

  14. #14
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    I find Devil to be great in your opener, but at turn four when your hand is near on empty and all you want is a bolt it's the last thing you want to see. Also, we have better openers.

    Think about it this way. Would you pay R for a 4/3 creature that does not help you win the game once the other guy has a board presence? I am going to put into the grave in my first 3 turns at lest an Instant, Sorcery and a land. Add in one Deathrite I had to remove and suddenly all that thing can do is die to a Gofy. The card looks cute but it's a trap.

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  15. #15

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Hey this is a build I am letting a friend use for a upcoming SCG. Any thought or feelings you want to share go for it.

    //Creature (8)
    4 Goblin Guide
    2 Grim Lavamancer
    2 Vexing Devil

    //Enchantment (3)
    3 Sulfuric Vortex

    //Instant (12)
    4 Fireblast
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Price of Progress

    //Sorcery (16)
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Flame Rift
    4 Lava Spike
    4 Rift Bolt

    //Land (21)
    3 Arid Mesa
    15 Mountain
    3 Scalding Tarn


    SB: 4 Mindbreak Trap (Turn one Kills)
    SB: 3 Searing Blaze (Super Aggro match for removal while keeping pressure on the board)
    SB: 2 Smash to Smithereens (Stoneblade/Affinity)
    SB: 3 Surgical Extraction (Yep)
    SB: 3 Volcanic Fallout (Delver matchups, can be countered)

  16. #16
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Here it is:

    //Creature (8)
    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Grim Lavamancer


    //Enchantment (2)
    2 Sulfuric Vortex

    //Instant (14)
    4 Fireblast
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Price of Progress
    2 Skullcrack

    //Sorcery (16)
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Flame Rift
    4 Lava Spike
    4 Rift Bolt

    //Land (20)
    4 Arid Mesa
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Wooded Foothills
    8 Mountain



    SB: 3 Faerie Macabre
    SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge
    SB: 3 Smash to Smithereens
    SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
    SB: 3 Volcanic Fallout

    I'm happy with main list as the deck is as aggressive as it can be. Still toying with sb though.

  17. #17
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by AmokPL View Post
    Here it is:

    //Creature (8)
    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Grim Lavamancer


    //Enchantment (2)
    2 Sulfuric Vortex

    //Instant (14)
    4 Fireblast
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Price of Progress
    2 Skullcrack

    //Sorcery (16)
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Flame Rift
    4 Lava Spike
    4 Rift Bolt

    //Land (20)
    4 Arid Mesa
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Wooded Foothills
    8 Mountain



    SB: 3 Faerie Macabre
    SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge
    SB: 3 Smash to Smithereens
    SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
    SB: 3 Volcanic Fallout

    I'm happy with main list as the deck is as aggressive as it can be. Still toying with sb though.
    Could you explain the split on Sulfuric and Skullcrack in more depth?
    How vital have the Volcanic Fallouts been in general, and what match-ups do you find you need them in?

  18. #18
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    As I said before I treat Skullcracks as an instant one-turn version of Vortex. When I was playing 3-4 Vortexes I got flooded with it so many times I decided to cut it. Vortex itself is not a gamebreaker. Having four copies of it increases chances of getting it soon but ideally on turn 3 I wouldn't want to drop it just to have it Dazed or Decayed and have a blank turn. It WILL get countered most of the times. I like to draw it when I realize the game will last longer. Opponent held his ground, most likely got rid of all counters, denying my finishing spells. Yes, then you drop Vortex and try again.

    Playing Burn, every turn you didn't deal damage is a big step towards losing the game. My approach is to throw all I have in opponent's face ASAP to get him killed turn 3-4. If he manages to drop f.e Batterskull and try to attack to get more life - I will Skullcrack his head denying his lifegain, hitting for 3 and killing him next turn. The longer the game goes, the lesser your chances for winning it. Having two Vortexes on turn 2-3 is not a good hand despite Vortex being a good (also slow) card

    Volcanic Fallout is the best answer for aggro decks. Instant, uncounterable, hits flyers. Some Goblin, Elf even Merfolk players in my area would agree.

  19. #19
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Think about it this way. Would you pay R for a 4/3 creature that does not help you win the game once the other guy has a board presence?
    What are you considering a board presence? I think your statement is just incorrect, and I tried to address this in my last post already. In fact, I would say that this statement applies to Goblin Guide as well, a card that many consider core to burn at this point. (If you advocate for not running guide, well I can understand, but that's a separate argument entirely.) As I said before, if Devil was just a 4/3 without any drawbacks, I would still play it, because that's just insane efficiency.

    But, let's consider some of the bad scenarios. First, you're trying to outrace the enemy. If they leave a blocker for devil, this is still fine for you. Devil will trade with almost every creature in the format (except a strong tarmogoyf) right now, so it's still at least a 1-for-1. But in leaving a blocker up you've bought yourself at least another turn, which is another turn to draw that burn spell to close out the game. Yes, you won't draw that spell every time, but this is probably the worst case scenario, which I think is actually rather rare. Second, they have removal. This is a fair argument, since removal sucks. However, since you're liking running at least 8 other creatures (lavamancer, goblin guide, hellspark elemental maybe), chances are they'll have another target for their removal anyway, so I wouldn't be so concerned about this. Otherwise Devil is a 4/3 they can't handle, so it turns into a 4 damage spell for . This seems very strong to me, and in particular will help increase your clock against decks that don't want to win with the combat step.
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  20. #20
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Valtrix View Post
    What are you considering a board presence? I think your statement is just incorrect, and I tried to address this in my last post already. In fact, I would say that this statement applies to Goblin Guide as well, a card that many consider core to burn at this point. (If you advocate for not running guide, well I can understand, but that's a separate argument entirely.) As I said before, if Devil was just a 4/3 without any drawbacks, I would still play it, because that's just insane efficiency.

    But, let's consider some of the bad scenarios. First, you're trying to outrace the enemy. If they leave a blocker for devil, this is still fine for you. Devil will trade with almost every creature in the format (except a strong tarmogoyf) right now, so it's still at least a 1-for-1. But in leaving a blocker up you've bought yourself at least another turn, which is another turn to draw that burn spell to close out the game. Yes, you won't draw that spell every time, but this is probably the worst case scenario, which I think is actually rather rare. Second, they have removal. This is a fair argument, since removal sucks. However, since you're liking running at least 8 other creatures (lavamancer, goblin guide, hellspark elemental maybe), chances are they'll have another target for their removal anyway, so I wouldn't be so concerned about this. Otherwise Devil is a 4/3 they can't handle, so it turns into a 4 damage spell for . This seems very strong to me, and in particular will help increase your clock against decks that don't want to win with the combat step.
    Have you played vexing devil against a good opponent? Most of the times it won't affect the game, since the opponent will just choose whatever he can deal with more easily: 4 damage or a 4/3. If in both cases it is bad for him, well then, his deck is probably no match for Burn anyways.

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