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Thread: [Primer/Deck] Burn

  1. #81
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by olystuart View Post
    So far the only list I've taken to a tourney (SCG Seattle in April) was a fetchless monored one with 4 Vortex, 4 Flame Rift, and 4 Vexing Devils. I'm doing a little testing here and there but will start doing more when it comes closer to the October Open here. I'm also slowly adding fetchlands to my collection, though with my lack of much budget I'll probably play fetchless again or possibly throw in ~4 fetches and maybe 2 Lavamancers. I'm not sure if that's worth it or not yet - more testing. I am testing a Rw splash-list as well though. In it I do run 4 Boros Charm over Flame Rift, do not run Helix or any other white cards in the main. The main reason is Wear // Tear. I'm not sold on the splash, but I did lose 2 games to Leyline in the Open and it sucks having zero answers to a popular 4-of (in my limited experience, Leylines don't get talked about much because most of the Legacy coverage is of the top tables and Top 8s, and I think more non-elite decks at the mid tables play Leylines). There are other corner cases as well such as hitting Omniscience or Dream Halls in response to Enter the Infinite coming on the stack. In the end my guess is that I'll come to the conclusion of just about every good Burn player out there: mono Red is the place to be. Leylines suck to face but Burn is probably better off just asking: do you have it? Decks that pack Leylines are often decks we can successfully race. I mean do they really want to Mull down to it? If so they might just lose to all of our non-targetting damage (GGs Flame Rift Vortex Devils PoP) before they can draw into their lock or combo anyway. And if we lose 2 games in a long tourney to Leyline or another enchantment, so what? We probably end up losing 2 games to Wasteland if we splash. Boros Charm could save your Vortex in some odd game situation I guess, but in the context of Burn it's just really a worse Flame Rift because it requires the splash and also because it targets. So yeah I think I just talked myself out of white splash while rambling about my testing experience :)
    What do ya'll think about running 6 REB/Pyroblast in the 'board? I'm liking #s 5 and 6 better than other options for the moment in testing such as Shusher, Ensnaring Bridge, and Mindbreak Trap. Again, probably wrong, just something I'm testing out as REB is just so crucial in some hard matches.
    What decks have you been play testing against? I find Ensnaring Bridge to be a needed 3 slot just for Sneak and Show decks, along with just landing one in some creature match ups can flat out win the game for you, not that I suggest always bringing it in against all creature decks, only certain ones. Mindbreak Trap is a pretty hard card to pass up when Storm can just beat us first turn without it, I like to have 4 around. Shusher is iffy and to me depends on the meta you are expecting, I find it is very good against the counterbalance match-ups and heavy mono blue decks, but Pyroblast/REB is also very good at what it does. It is a hard call, side boarding, I find I spend most of my time on it, rather than the main board.

    I have a core that I never seem to change sideboard wise and it evolves these cards:

    4 Mindbreak Trap
    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    3 Faerie Macabre


    Interestingly enough, even though I am playing a mono-red deck, all those options are not red cards. ;p
    If you are seeing heavy use of Leyline, and I know you only said a few loses, I would consider Anarchy. For the time you would just non-target damage and save up until you can land an Anarchy, could be worth while, I know it is a relic of the past when a lot of White decks hated us out.

  2. #82
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by olystuart View Post
    So far the only list I've taken to a tourney (SCG Seattle in April) was a fetchless monored one with 4 Vortex, 4 Flame Rift, and 4 Vexing Devils. I'm doing a little testing here and there but will start doing more when it comes closer to the October Open here. I'm also slowly adding fetchlands to my collection, though with my lack of much budget I'll probably play fetchless again or possibly throw in ~4 fetches and maybe 2 Lavamancers. I'm not sure if that's worth it or not yet - more testing. I am testing a Rw splash-list as well though. In it I do run 4 Boros Charm over Flame Rift, do not run Helix or any other white cards in the main. The main reason is Wear // Tear. I'm not sold on the splash, but I did lose 2 games to Leyline in the Open and it sucks having zero answers to a popular 4-of (in my limited experience, Leylines don't get talked about much because most of the Legacy coverage is of the top tables and Top 8s, and I think more non-elite decks at the mid tables play Leylines). There are other corner cases as well such as hitting Omniscience or Dream Halls in response to Enter the Infinite coming on the stack. In the end my guess is that I'll come to the conclusion of just about every good Burn player out there: mono Red is the place to be. Leylines suck to face but Burn is probably better off just asking: do you have it? Decks that pack Leylines are often decks we can successfully race. I mean do they really want to Mull down to it? If so they might just lose to all of our non-targetting damage (GGs Flame Rift Vortex Devils PoP) before they can draw into their lock or combo anyway. And if we lose 2 games in a long tourney to Leyline or another enchantment, so what? We probably end up losing 2 games to Wasteland if we splash. Boros Charm could save your Vortex in some odd game situation I guess, but in the context of Burn it's just really a worse Flame Rift because it requires the splash and also because it targets. So yeah I think I just talked myself out of white splash while rambling about my testing experience :)
    What do ya'll think about running 6 REB/Pyroblast in the 'board? I'm liking #s 5 and 6 better than other options for the moment in testing such as Shusher, Ensnaring Bridge, and Mindbreak Trap. Again, probably wrong, just something I'm testing out as REB is just so crucial in some hard matches.
    I know how you feel man, theres just times when it hurts to play burn, since enchantment removal is completely unavailable in our color. But yeah I've come back to mono red again, though no vortex for me, it just seems too little too late most of the time. I know the blanking lifegain is nice, but in the first five turns where most burn games are played, the only life gain you are gonna see is deathrite, jitte, and finks, unless I'm missing something, and of those, finks aren't even popular any more, and jitte still takes time to get on line, Deathrite being 2 toughness is easy to deal with, so I just don't think its necessary maindeck.

    New deck list:

    EDIT: I realize with the new mana curve I can probably afford to drop a land or two, but can't decide what to put in, any suggestions?...Maybe I should just leave it alone...

    20 lands

    4 Arid Mesa
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Red fetches
    8 Mountains

    11 Creatures

    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Grim Lavamancer
    3 Hellspark Elemental

    15 Sorceries

    4 Rift Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Lava spike
    3 Flame rift

    14 Instants

    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Searing Blaze
    4 Fire Blast
    4 Price of Progress

    SB

    2 Pyrostatic Pillar
    2 Oblivion Ring
    3 REB
    2 Faerie Macabre
    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Mindbreak Trap
    Last edited by xieyun006; 08-09-2013 at 12:45 PM.

  3. #83
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by xieyun006 View Post
    I know how you feel man, theres just times when it hurts to play burn, since enchantment removal is completely unavailable in our color. But yeah I've come back to mono red again, though no vortex for me, it just seems too little too late most of the time. I know the blanking lifegain is nice, but in the first five turns where most burn games are played, the only life gain you are gonna see is deathrite, jitte, and finks, unless I'm missing something, and of those, finks aren't even popular any more, and jitte still takes time to get on line, Deathrite being 2 toughness is easy to deal with, so I just don't think its necessary maindeck.

    New deck list:

    EDIT: I realize with the new mana curve I can probably afford to drop a land or two, but can't decide what to put in, any suggestions?...Maybe I should just leave it alone...

    20 lands

    4 Arid Mesa
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Red fetches
    8 Mountains

    11 Creatures

    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Grim Lavamancer
    3 Hellspark Elemental

    15 Sorceries

    4 Rift Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Lavadart
    3 Flame rift

    14 Instants

    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Searing Blaze
    4 Fire Blast
    4 Price of Progress

    SB

    2 Pyrostatic Pillar
    2 Oblivion Ring
    3 REB
    2 Faerie Macabre
    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Mindbreak Trap
    What is your reasoning behind Lava Dart, and why is Flame Jab not strictly better for the job?

  4. #84
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by JPettie View Post
    What is your reasoning behind Lava Dart, and why is Flame Jab not strictly better for the job?
    Didn´t he mean lava spike?

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    yeah my bad that was lava spike, fixed

  6. #86
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    This is my Burnlist i play from time to time

    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Deathrite Shaman

    4 Sulfuric Vortex

    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Rift Bolt
    4 Lava Spike

    4 Price of Progress
    4 Flame Rift
    4 Fireblast

    4 Mountain
    4 Arid Mesa
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Scalding Tarn
    1 Barbarian Ring
    2 Badlands
    1 Taiga

    SB: 2 Pyroblast
    SB: 3 Shattering Spree
    SB: 3 Mindbreak Trap
    SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge
    SB: 4 Searing Blaze
    Got tired of Legacy and you like drafts? Try my Paupercube What?

  7. #87

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    What is your experience splashing with DRS? I typically think a benefit of burn is the general immunity from wasteland (Barbarian Ring aside). It seems that the DRS could be replaced with lavamancer with little affect.

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by ahg113 View Post
    What is your experience splashing with DRS? I typically think a benefit of burn is the general immunity from wasteland (Barbarian Ring aside). It seems that the DRS could be replaced with lavamancer with little affect.
    Exactly. The improvement you´ll get by replacing lavamancer with shaman is not worth make ourself vulnerable to wastelands. Not to mention PoP.

  9. #89
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Pop is usually just another Flame Rift at worst.
    If the opponent is wasting me, I dont care. Most spells cost 1 and dont forget DRS "counters" Wasteland.
    DRS usually helps winning a turn faster, besides his other abilities.
    Got tired of Legacy and you like drafts? Try my Paupercube What?

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Humphrey View Post
    Pop is usually just another Flame Rift at worst.
    If the opponent is wasting me, I dont care. Most spells cost 1 and dont forget DRS "counters" Wasteland.
    DRS usually helps winning a turn faster, besides his other abilities.
    I like lavamancer better than DRS, hitting creatures is amazing against somedecks, leaving your precious cards in hand for the opponent. Have you considered using bump in the night over flame rift, or vortex?

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by xyeyun006
    enchantment removal is completely unavailable in our color
    Chaos Warp ? Wizard has been so kind to print this red catch-all removal, i think we should use it. It might not be the best card in the world at 3cmc but it is the only way we have to remove enchantments (not considering slow-as-hell artifacts like ratchet bomb).

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoCop 90 View Post
    Chaos Warp ? Wizard has been so kind to print this red catch-all removal, i think we should use it. It might not be the best card in the world at 3cmc but it is the only way we have to remove enchantments (not considering slow-as-hell artifacts like ratchet bomb).
    I will buy a playset of foil Japanese Jittes if someone can show me a video of them doing the following in a sanctioned Legacy tournament:
    -casting Chaos Warp on an enchantment (e.g. Omniscience or Sneak Attack)
    -opponent Brainstorms in response, putting Emrakul the Aeons Torn on top of library

  13. #93

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I will buy a playset of foil Japanese Jittes if someone can show me a video of them doing the following in a sanctioned Legacy tournament:
    -casting Chaos Warp on an enchantment (e.g. Omniscience or Sneak Attack)
    -opponent Brainstorms in response, putting Emrakul the Aeons Torn on top of library

    There's just no way of it works since the card use a shuffle effect, and if they put the Emrakul on top as response they will just lose their big creature.

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Maikhell View Post
    There's just no way of it works since the card use a shuffle effect, and if they put the Emrakul on top as response they will just lose their big creature.
    You'll notice there wasn't a third bullet point for "Emrakul enters the battlefield". The jokes on them! Like I said, if you can get a video of that happening in any sanctioned event, please post it! So many LOLOL

  15. #95
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by xieyun006 View Post
    I like lavamancer better than DRS, hitting creatures is amazing against somedecks, leaving your precious cards in hand for the opponent. Have you considered using bump in the night over flame rift, or vortex?
    The ability to hit creatures is good, but dont forget you need to remove 2 cards and you cant mess with opp. graveyards. With DRS you have preboard gyremoval and manaacceleration.

    I tried Bump, but I think it sucks. Vortex ist one of the strongest cards in the deck and Rift deals 4 which is >3. Besides you dont always want to fetch for Badlands.
    Got tired of Legacy and you like drafts? Try my Paupercube What?

  16. #96

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    I am also testing a idea for a RB Burn deck using Deathrite Shaman, but I have Bump in the Night in the main too. One of the cool thinks I have been thinking about for this build is access to Cabal Therapy in the board. That gives me a little help against Combo, and the added speed of DRS should also help against Aggro. If needed I could use DRS to help drop turn two Sulfuric Vortex or Volcanic Fallout.

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Against combo try Leyline of Sanctuary and Mindbreak Traps in the board.
    Got tired of Legacy and you like drafts? Try my Paupercube What?

  18. #98
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    i play a version of Burn, with Tarmogoyf in

    main

    8 mountains
    4 taiga
    6 fetchs

    4 Tarmogoyf
    3 vexing devil
    4 lavamante
    4 Goblin Guide

    4 rift bolt
    4 chain Lightning
    4 Lightning bolt
    4 Lava Spike
    4 price of progress
    4 Fireblast
    3 flame rift

    side
    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    3 Sulfuric Vortex
    3 Leyline of the void
    3 Angel of despair
    3 smash to smithereens

  19. #99
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaudy View Post
    i play a version of Burn, with Tarmogoyf in

    main

    8 mountains
    4 taiga
    6 fetchs

    4 Tarmogoyf
    3 vexing devil
    4 lavamante
    4 Goblin Guide

    4 rift bolt
    4 chain Lightning
    4 Lightning bolt
    4 Lava Spike
    4 price of progress
    4 Fireblast
    3 flame rift

    side
    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    3 Sulfuric Vortex
    3 Leyline of the void
    3 Angel of despair
    3 smash to smithereens
    Does Grim Lavamancer not counteract your Tarmogoyf plan?
    It also seems like you have a lot of sideboard cards dedicated to beating Sneak and Show.
    Are you having a lot of problems with the match-up where you play and have those slots been as good as you wanted them to be against Sneak and Show or other decks?

  20. #100
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by JPettie View Post
    Does Grim Lavamancer not counteract your Tarmogoyf plan?
    It also seems like you have a lot of sideboard cards dedicated to beating Sneak and Show.
    Are you having a lot of problems with the match-up where you play and have those slots been as good as you wanted them to be against Sneak and Show or other decks?
    well, Grim Lavamancer some times shrinks Tarmogoyf ( lands, maverik, D&T, Sneak and Show, reanimator, goblins), but agains match ups like delver, Deathblade, Agent, Jund, it doesn't.

    for me the most important creature in my deck is Lavamancer, is almost a win card againts many deck (D&T, Goblins, DeathBlade, Agent, Delver, Sliver, Elves), if you can keep it, you even can slow down a bit.

    And yes i have many trouble with Sneak and Show decks. I have trouble finding a way to win this match but, after of read here, may be just bridge is enough

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