Originally Posted by Sidneyious
By adding a second or even third color, I have to imagine you're losing a huge amount of percentage points in the Delver matchup. Turns their wastelands on and stifle's on, which turns on their daze's. And if even one of your burn spells gets dazed, you're in some trouble. And if you kept a 1-2 land hand and get wastelanded and now can't use the two man spells in your hand? It just seems bad.
Course, all of that pales in comparison to the fact you're giving up Price of Progress by adding a second color, let alone a third. I don't have too much experience with legacy Burn, but the amount of games that end when I'm at under 6-8 life that I win with a Price of Progress are not inconsequential. Taking away the ability to steal games seems bad. Also, just by having Price in your deck you're forcing your opponent to get suboptimal lands with their fetches or risk getting blown out, which again is not an inconsequential advantage. Upgrading Flame Rift to Boros Charm and Vortex to Atarka's Command cannot be worth that.
Your first point is actually an issue I've had with running Barbarian Ring, if it ends up being one of your two opening lands it's a really huge set back. You really want it to just be an uncounterable Shock.
Second point, I think you can actually color splash just fine and still play Price of Progress (take UR Delver for example). I think it's a fun experiment, but I tend to find that mono R Burn just tends to be best.
I took a break from Burn for a bit to play Grixis Delver, and I have to say that one of the things I miss most about Burn is not getting Wastelanded out of the game.
I think the color splash I like best is the white splash, for Path to Exile, Deflecting Palm, Rest in Peace, Stony Silence, Chained to the Rocks, etc. My gripe with this is you can't get a foil Plateau...
Red Deck Weekly -- I'm bad at magic
Hey guys
I just finished second with burn in the Legacy Challenge 25/6 2017 with 75 players.
I was trying out a card I never have seen in burn before.
The card I am takling about is Pain's Reward. Card draw auktion for life. A better version in burn than Painfull Truths. I played two maindeck. I splashed for black with two badlands and 10 fetchland to support it. In the tournament I played the spell a couple of times. It was fun. I am not sure if it is correct to play the card or if it more is a fun off card. But its worth some testing.
Thought you guys might like to know
I am not able to write up my full playlist on this Ipad, but I am sure it will be posted on wizards magic online result page within a day.
Update: link to results and decklist
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...nge-2017-06-26
ReneRandrup
Link to Pain's Reward
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...iverseid=75340
How much life did you usually have to bid to outbid your opponents?
Did your opponent ever bid enough life that you let the bid stand and had them draw four cards? If so, what was the bid?
Black also has Bump in the Night, Collective Brutality and Tyrant's Choice.
A black splash allows the deck to play a pure burn deck with zero reliance on creatures.
I too am curious about this. As an opponent I think I would pay up to 7-9 (since you're likely to draw ~7-9 damage of cards.) Between potentially drawing Force or other counters, it seems safe to draw the four and attempt to stabilize on the fact that they just 4-for-0'd them selves. Certainly depends on my life total, boardstate, etc; but it may also draw Jitte, BSK, or similar, and cause me to gain a bunch of life on top of it.
I could be totally wrong, but it does seem dangerous to say "Lol well one of us are losing 9-10 life" when your opponent may well be able to get you to pay 10, shoot you with DRS, untap, shoot you with DRS, bolt you.
Hi
1) I wouldent want to go creatureless. The creatures deals damage and opponent have to spent resources/cards to stop the damage.
2) I only resolved the spell 3-4 times. It was also countered a couple of times and a couple of times the spell was removed from my hand with disruption
3) including some testing I have paided between 0 and 9 life. Only once did I let my opponent outbid me. But not because I couldent pay the life. But because I afterwards had more than lethal. I belive his bid was 7-8 life and in that case the math is 1 spell deals 7-8 damage. Sure opponent is up cards, but burn opponenents usual are. The objective is not to be ahead on cards - the objective is to deal 20 damage.
4) al magic spells have to be sequenced and played at the optimal time. Same with this spell. I would never cast the spell if I was lowest on life (there are corner cases). But in that case, the worst case scenario is just being down a card (not playing it). In pratice the burn player is ahead on life in 90% of the time and then sometimes stalls, run out of threats and this is where this card come in. Its allow you the refuel your hand and paying with the resource your are ahead on: life. This is usual round 4-6 and at this point paying 3 mana usual is not a problem.
René Randrup
Hello fellow Burn players,
I am currently building Burn for an upcoming legacy quarterly in my area (the standard 2 lavamancer, 3 searing blaze build). The problem I'm running into is I'm unsure of what I should put into my sideboard to properly prepare for the meta.
This is the top 8 from the previous quarterly: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14875&f=LE
In addition, the previous Legacy tournament in the area had a TON of Grixis Delver and Sneak & Show.
My main questions are:
1) What should my sideboard look like in a meta filled with Grixis Delver, Death & Taxes, and Sneak and Show?
2) What do you guys normally take out when sideboarding?
3) What's my worst matchup?
Do you even need to side board against Grixis Delver? jk jk.
1.
Here's my friends list from the CK invitational, which I think is pretty well rounded and good for a meta with D&T, Delver, and Sneak and Show.
His side was:
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pyroblast
1 Searing Blaze
2 Searing Blood
1 Shattering Spree
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Surgical Extraction
I think something like this would be good, maybe cut down a Searing Blood for an additional Ensnaring Bridge or Pyroblast I think, Sneak and Show is your worst match up, and those 2 cards are really good there.
2.
Grixis Delver - You're heavily favored. I normally take out some number of Lava Spikes and or Rift Bolts on the play, some number of Goblin Guides and/or Spikes on the draw. I bring in Searing effects and Pyroblast. Pyroblast can fight over TNN and kill delvers and hit those "Please don't kill me" Force of Wills.
D&T - I think they're favored pre board, your favored post board. I tend to take out a mix of Eidolon, Price of Progress, and/or Lava Spike. A lot of people think I'm a little crazy how I side in the match up... Eidolon isn't as good because they play Vial and Stoneforge, they just cheat their stuff in. Price is mixed, because sometimes they draw nothing but basic plains and Wastelands, other times they're stuck on Karakas, Horizon Canopy, and Ports. And Spike... is just Spike. I tend to try to leave 1-3 Price in, sometimes I take out all the Eidolons, other times I have 2 Eidolons, 2 Price, and take out some number of Spike. Guide is also worth siding out on the draw here, but I tend to value creatures more in the match up since you tend to have to try keeping their board under control, so I leave them in.
Show and Tell - You're screwed. In, Ensaring Bridge and Pyroblast. I keep questioning bringing in Surgical, but they still have other ways to go off other than Show and Tell, but you can also screw them over by getting their fatties they cheat in. I tend to side out some number of Price, Rift Bolts/Spikes, or Guides depending on play or draw. Sometimes you just really need to get in 3 damage, but you draw the Rift Bolt... I also like having Sulfuric Vortex in this match up, because then you can race Griselbrand.
3) Show and Tell, Reanimator, Belcher, any combo deck that can kill faster than you.
Red Deck Weekly -- I'm bad at magic
Thanks for the help. I'm going to pretty much use the same sideboard minus 2 cages for faerie macabres and 1 Shattering Spree for a Pyrostatic Pillar. I imagine I'll probably encounter at least 1 Storm deck, so it doesn't hurt to edge the matchup just a tad. I also don't believe anyone plays Elves in the area so Macabres are just better suited to deal with combo.
I agree with not bringing in Surgicals against S&S as it just seems like it won't affect their plan as much as 3 to the face does. Hopefully all goes well and I can just dodge the matchup though.
Fellow Pyromancers,
In order to cope with the historical Mana Flood issue in Burn, and also considering how heavily the meta has recently shifted towards Grixis Delver and Death and Taxes, how do you guys feel about running a single copy of Molten Vortex in main deck?
This is what my current list looks like (Molten Vortex is basically taking the fourth Rift Bolt slot):
Lands
10 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Arid Mesa
Creatures
4 Goblin Guide
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Grim Lavamancer
Spells
4 Lava Spike
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Rift Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
2 Searing Blaze
3 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Molten Vortex
Right now I'm running 4 Seering Blood 4 Smash to Smithereens in my sideboard has anyone tried condensing their creature removal and artifact removal into abrade yet? So it would be something like 4 abrade 2 smash to smithereens. I know most people try and stick to the concept of every card has to do damage but in my mind this allows for more do nothing anti combo sideboard cards like pyroblast/graveyard hate.
A friend at my LGS has tried Hazert as a singleton threat and a way to avoid mana screw, he really enjoys it.
So my dear girlfriend (bless her heart) got into Magic because it's a passion of mine. At first she was very hesitant, but once she started playing, she really took to it and since she has a competitive nature, she obviously enjoys winning. Since I mostly only play Legacy, she agreed to join in on the fun. I chose Burn since I felt it was the simplest deck to teach to a newcomer (mono-colored, just point everything at the face, standard combat, etc.) and she has picked it up nicely. She even signed up for the GP Vegas Legacy event with me and won a match! However, the deck does not seem very strong considering our local meta, which is filled with fast combo decks (Reanimator, Storm, Sneak & Show) and Batterskulls/Jittes (Stoneblade, D&T). In short, I have a few questions. Is there any way she could tweak her deck to be stronger against our meta, or should she just throw in the towel and learn a different deck? If it's the latter, what would be another "easy" deck for her to learn that would be a bit more competitive?
if your meta is extremely combo heavy i'd remove all searing effects from the main and play flame rifts and swfitspears, no vortexes. just pure and fast.
batterskull/ jitte( taxes and or blade) wants grim so there is probably a balance here.
show and tell is extremely tough,I think people are on ensnaring bridge and to some degree maybe pyroblast
reanimator you can beat in theory in g2/ g3 by boarding hard free gy hate( leyline instead of split cards that cost mana, like cage /relic,etc.)
storm you can play pyrostatic pillar for pillars 5-X from the board, i wouldn't play more than 2 typically. also pyroblast helps here.
what is the current list you are on and what does the SB look like?
Hey there,
Two of my friends are starting to play Legacy this year. They don't really know the Legacy metagame, so I try to lend them decks that minimize interaction and decission making. Right now, one of them is playing Burn and enjoying it (the Catalan League metagame is pretty fair, with some combo decks but not too many); he even bought the majority of cards so I haven't to lend mine to him anymore. The other one played Big Red last tournament and had a great time, even if the results weren't that good (3 wins 4 losses, IIRC). I think Big Red could be a great option for your girlfriend; it's not a deck too difficult to play, it doesn't need a great knowledge of the metagame, it can be explosive and it can even lock the opponent out of the game with Chalices/Blood Moons.
OR, if your meta is really infested with fast combo, you could go big and play the fastest combo deck available: Belcher. Come on, join the Belcher Cult!
Colorless is the new blue
http://ooh---shiny.blogspot.com
My local meta consists of mainly of fair decks with little-to-no SB plan against fast combo decks even though they show up mainly to bigger prize payout tournaments. I like to prepare hate just to be safe.
Here's my list:
Glade Burn
(NOTE: For the purposes of this response I'll talk about my sideboard plan to which I hope helps you against your meta. So disregard the mainboard.)
My maybeboard is basically my sideboard plan against various decks I think will be at major tournaments and adjust my sideboard according to the projected turnout. 7/10 times my information is correct.
For Reanimator and Storm (ANT/TES) I run 1 Leyline of the Void, 2 Surgical Extractions, and 1 Grafdigger's Cage against them, and side out the Guides.
Best way to interact with Sneak & Show/Show & Tell variants for me was siding in my 1 Pithing Needle and my 3 Pyroblasts. Side out the Goblins and Burn face.
Against Stoneblade decks (Batterskull/Jitte) I just side in 1 Vortex, 2 Smash to Smithereens, 1 Pithing Needle (for Jitte/Batterskull/SFM), and 2 Exquisite Firecraft. I side out the Bedlam, 4 Guides, and 1 Shrine.
Hope I was of some help
--GB
Hi everyone.
So I'm not really a burn player - but it's where I started way back when. It's changed a bit since then of course with Eidolon, Vexing Devil etc.
I have a question for all you burn veterans and experts.
A couple weeks back I was playing/testing some new sideboard cards against my opponents (I was on LED-dredge).
I came up against Burn playing Pyromancer Ascension.
I didn't think much about it at all, I kinda dismissed it as a noob pile right there. Then he wrecked me in game 2 and 3 after I won game1, with pure burn to the face.
I normally beat Burn in 2 games...
I've never seen Burn play Pyromancer Ascension before.
FWIW, he didn't seem to play any creatures or draw, but he did otherwise have what seemed like a normal burn deck.
So.... did he get lucky? Is the card rubbish?
What's the consensus on this one?
I think Pyromancer's Ascension is pretty bad. You don't have any card draw or deck manipulation, so getting counters on it will be somewhat inconsistent. Also, Ascension is an awful, awful top deck, which is something that Burn usually can't afford. Plus, imagine if Pyromancer's Ascension was replaced by Flame Rift. In order for Pyromancer's Ascension to be better, you will usually need to cast four or more spells after resolving it.
----------------------------------------
Anyways, I decided to go back to Burn after not having played it for a long time. Played in a somewhat casual 8 man Legacy event with a pretty standard anti-creature list (x2 Lavamancer, x2 Searing Blaze, x1 Sulfuric Vortex, x0 Flame Rift main deck) and went 2-1. The sideboard could have used a little work (I was still on a pre-Top ban sideboard with x4 Exquisite Firecraft), but otherwise the rest of the deck was what you would typically see.
I'd mostly be interested in what people think about my sideboarding plans. It's been a while since I've kept up with Burn matchups, so some of these plans could use a bit of work.
Round 1 I played against Moon Stompy (the eventual winner of the tournament) and lost 1-2. This matchup felt like it should have been easier but we both drew incredibly awkwardly all three games. That's what you get for not playing a deck with Island in it, I guess. I lose the die roll and game 1, stick a single threat on my turn 1 and then he lands a turn 2 Trinisphere and I never draw my third land and get run over. I board in x3 Smash to Smithereens, x1 x1 Grim Lavamancer, x1 Searing Blaze, x1 Sulfuric Vortex and take out x4 Eidolon and x2 Price of Progress.
Game 2 I'm on the play. We both mulligan and after I get in for some damage with early creatures my board gets wiped and I stick a Sulfuric Vortex. Eventually we end up in a board state where I have Vortex and two Smash to Smithereens plus a single Rift Bolt in hand, while he has two 2/2 dorks (a Spirit Guide and a Magus of the Moon). We're both a relatively high life totals, so I bolt his Magus in order to slow down his clock (I decided to hit Magus over Spirit Guide because it turned his Sol lands back, cutting him off from double red) while Vortex chips away at us both. We both proceed to draw a lot of bricks (lands on my part and either lands or uncastable double red cards on his part), so I'm hitting him for 2 a turn and he's hitting me for 4. Towards the end of the game, he's at 8 life and I'm at 4 life, and I draw a Lightning Bolt. I have a decision between bolting his 2/2 or hitting his face, and I decide to go face, bringing him down to 5. On his turn Vortex brings him to 3, then he attacks me down to 2 life and instead of passing finally decides to drop an artifact. It's met with an instant Smash (which I had been holding all game), winning me the game.
Game 3 played out a lot like game 1. He's on the play again, drops an early Trinisphere, and I somehow never find a third land and quickly die.
Round 2 I played against OmniSneak, winning 2-1. Game 1 he casts a turn 2 Show and Tell, putting Griselbrand into play, which basically ends the game. We play out a few more turns and I come pretty close to being able to sneak out the win, but he sequences well and rides his 7/7 lifelink to victory. I don't have Pyroblast in my sideboard, so I'm feeling somewhat bad. I board in x2 Pyrostatic Pillar and x2 Sulfuric Vortex, boarding out x2 Grim Lavamancer and x2 Searing Blaze. After the round, I realized I probably should have boarded out some copies of Price of Progress instead, since his deck can easily fetch for mostly basics, but it didn't occur to me at the time.
Game 2 I get off to a strong start, and kill him in typical burn fashion. An early Eidolon complicates things because it means it's a lot harder for him to dig for a win.
Game 3, I'm on the draw and have to mulligan to 6, keeping a mediocre 1 lander. He again casts an early Show and Tell, this time dropping an Omniscience into play while I drop and Eidolon (which was okay for me because I had only one land at the time and couldn't even cast Eidolon). He removes my Eidolon (taking 2 damage in the process) but apparently his hand is full of bricks because the largest threat he can present after Omniscience is in play is a single Simian Spirit Guide. I draw my second land and start clocking him, and all of a sudden Simian Spirit Guide needs to play defense to random haste creatures. He draws bricks for a few more turns in a row, I get him down to 4 life, and then I make the read that he probably doesn't have Force of Will in hand and yolo Fireblast him (putting me down to 0 lands) for lethal before he can get any more draw steps.
Round 3 I play against Grixis Delver, winning 2-0. My deck has lots of main deck creature removal, and my opponent was still learning his deck. I had some pretty good sequencing to play around Daze and Spell Pierce, but for the most part these games were pretty straightforward victories for me.
Game 1, I'm on the play. My opponent Ponders turn 1, then Deathrite Shaman shows his ugly face on turn 2 but he immediately eats a Searing Blaze on turn 3. Afterwards, my opponent is on the back foot, not being able to present a good threat while I slowly draw more burn. True-Name comes down at some point, but it's way too late, and I close out the game with x2 Price of Progress (one of them gets Forced) followed by a Fireblast. Against Grixis Delver I bring in x2 Pyrostatic Pillar, x1 Grim Lavamancer, and x1 Searing Blaze, taking out x3 Monastery Swiftspear and x1 Sulfuric Vortex.
Game 2, another Deathrite Shaman shows up, this time on turn 1. He immediately eats a Chain Lightning, and again my opponent finds it hard to present a good threat while I slowly burn him out. True-Name Nemesis shows up again at some point to start the clock, but like before he's way too slow of a clock, as I am still at 20 life. My opponent is at 2 life with me basically out of gas (having played land-pass for a few turns), but I'm so far away from dying and any burn spell is lethal from my end. A second Deathrite comes down to try and stabilize a little bit, but he eats the Searing Blaze that has been stuck in my hand all game, closing out the game.
Overall, the deck still felt like it had a lot of game against other fair decks. Losing to Trinisphere was unlucky, but beating Show and Tell was pretty fortunate on my part, so I guess it balanced out. I did have plenty of games where I was at the mercy of my draws though. After having played Miracles for a few months, trying to play a non-blue deck like Burn again just feels so clunky. But regardless, the deck still performed fine, and I would probably jam it again at some point, since I do think that it's a deck that does pretty well in fair metas.
Has anybody ever played 2-3 Blood Moon in the sideoboard?? I'm really starting to think about playing them. They destroy the 4c decks, Canadian Threshhold, Grixis Tempo, TA, Lands and Storm decks. Also against Reanimator and Elves they are quite good if the opponent does not expect the card to be played at least in the 2. game. Anyone tested Blood Moon in Burn?
Top 8'd a CK 1k 68 players. Burn was the most represented of the meta with 7 pilots.
List + bad rounds summaries later tonight. I'll just edit this post.
EDIT: LIST + summaries
Main (60)
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Searing Blaze
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
4 Goblin Guide
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
11 Mountain
4 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
Sideboard (15)
1 Searing Blood
2 Searing Blaze
4 Smash to Smithereens
3 Exquisite Firecraft
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
Overall: I missed probably a half dozen triggers and about 3 damage on the day from missed attacks, I'm hella rusty since I haven;t played magic in a while
R1: Staver (lands)
I got lucky and he mis configured a chasm lock in G3
R2: Mike Tessier (big red stompy)
G1: Played around trinisphere,
G2/ G3:smash is a good card.
VOD HERE:
R3: Kelvin(Czech pile)
I make a bunch of mistakes and still get there. wheeee.
R4: James Johnson (ANT)
Stole a game in G2 from being on the play and having pyro + eidolon and spells
G3: I probably should have mulled to hate but decided to race, double goblin guide and swiftspear + some spells were not enough,if I had been on the play it probably would have been closer
R5: Tim Wilder (Czech Pile)
g1, He won off some tight play and close ness, I went full face I think
g2, I was in an ok position, my outs according to his deeper analysis were POP on TOP, and I hit it But overall I had some bad ness and he had to play literally perfectly to dodge most of it.
g3: vod here if you want to watch a bunch of punts
R6: Randy Yao (elves)
g1: I burn dudes
g2: I 4 for 1'd myself to kill an elderscale wurm( bolt, fireblast(2 mountains)), I had a board presence of eidolon guide, swiftspear, eidolon did a lot of work. ended up killing him fireblast waiting for ever to kill him with it when I should have probably just killed him
R7: Intentional draw
Top 8 Quarters: I lose to Tessier, He takes it down.
Last edited by ThomasDowd; 10-03-2017 at 01:16 AM.
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