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Thread: The time it takes someone to sideboard and present their deck question

  1. #1

    The time it takes someone to sideboard and present their deck question

    I posted a message on reddit,
    and basically complained that yatta yatta I had played a very fast game of magic in a tournament, and while I am sideboarding my opponent starts griefing me that it is taking too long to sideboard, over 3min he says, so I respond to him "What watch were you looking at?" and even had he wanted to in the time it would have taken him to call a judge over and declare what fanciful time the game supposedly ended at, how long it would have supposedly taken me to sideboard, yeah I was already done sideboarding anyway and he there was no judge called over. everyone else around at the table say yeah you have only 3 min to present your sideboard.

    so I have made a complaint to Wizards about this, since I think this "rule" is plainly ridiculous and would be hard to enforce, but someone responded on reddit and said that this rule was apparently abolished last february.

    so could someone confirm this with a link?

  2. #2

    Re: The time it takes someone to sideboard and present their deck question

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll_ov_Grimness View Post
    I posted a message on reddit,
    and basically complained that yatta yatta I had played a very fast game of magic in a tournament, and while I am sideboarding my opponent starts griefing me that it is taking too long to sideboard, over 3min he says, so I respond to him "What watch were you looking at?" and even had he wanted to in the time it would have taken him to call a judge over and declare what fanciful time the game supposedly ended at, how long it would have supposedly taken me to sideboard, yeah I was already done sideboarding anyway and he there was no judge called over. everyone else around at the table say yeah you have only 3 min to present your sideboard.

    so I have made a complaint to Wizards about this, since I think this "rule" is plainly ridiculous and would be hard to enforce, but someone responded on reddit and said that this rule was apparently abolished last february.

    so could someone confirm this with a link?
    Never heard of a rule being abolished on sideboard time...It has always been 3 minutes to sideboard...

  3. #3

    Re: The time it takes someone to sideboard and present their deck question

    I take issue with this rule, gravely, because there is no clock on the actual table, and unless both players time each other while sideboarding at the same time, kind of impossible, the rule could only be enforced after it was clear the player was stalling

    Even were that the case, it is possible for only 30 seconds to have gone by, a judge get called over, and the player having even less time to sideboard

    I really just think trying to enforce the rule off the cuff, the way the rule is, is really hard to do without just griefing the heck out of someone

    I'm talking about local events, where the setting is very casual,
    and I just want to have fun

    If this is the rule then I won't be playing anymore because I dont want the same player to make the same accusation every time I play. I really don't think I can tolerate this I would go play at another store.

    I want to have fun in a relaxed atmosphere

    and yeah if this is really the way the rules are I've already logged a complaint with wizards that I think the rule is pushing it and it basically means I will not be playing at that store anymore

  4. #4
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    Re: The time it takes someone to sideboard and present their deck question

    I usually don't make a big deal about how long it takes to SB. Buy them again I play at a quick pace so there's always time. I always tell them to take their time
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  5. #5
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    Re: The time it takes someone to sideboard and present their deck question

    There did use to be a rule that you only had 3 minutes to sideboard and present between games. See the old version of Magic Tournament Rules 2.3 (Pregame Proceedures) - right before the page break.

    The last update (Feb 8, 2013) removed the explicit rule from the MTR, although in Infraction Procedure Guide section 3.3 (Slow Play), Example C still says "C. After 3 minutes into a round at a Pro Tour Qualifier, a player has not completed his shuffling."

    Troll - I've been guilty of taking excessive amounts of time to sideboard and shuffle (and gotten called out on it by GerryT!), it's an easy mistake to make. It's only a problem though if (a) you do take excessively long, or (b) your opponent is abusive. Basically, both of you should keep an eye on the clock when the game ends and if your opponent isn't getting ready to present after roughly 3 minutes, you should ask him to hurry up so you both have a fair chance to play. 3 minutes should be more than sufficient time to sideboard and shuffle assuming you know your deck and know how to shuffle. It's as much to your benefit as his to be aware of the clock and start a new game in a timely manner. If there were no limit, someone up a game with a slow deck could just attempt to take forever to shuffle and try to win 1-0-1.

    However, if your opponent is being abusive, you should first tell him to chill out, then if that doesn't work, you might consider calling a judge over to help out the situation. Harassing players is considered Unsporting Conduct and can get you evicted from the event. That being said, him simply telling you to please sideboard more quickly if you're going on 3 minutes is not harassment.

    The biggest issue with the statement "I had played a very fast game of magic" is that every player thinks they play quickly, just like every driver thinks they drive better than average - people's perception of their own abilities is not accurate. The only thing that judges can verify at the point at which you're sideboarding is that you're not taking excessively long.
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  6. #6
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    Re: The time it takes someone to sideboard and present their deck question

    @ Troll_ov_Grimness: There often is a round clock visible at large events, and I've played at local stores that also have clocks, so it's not hard at all to notice that three or four minutes have gone by and your opponent is still fiddling with his or her cards. Sideboarding shouldn't be a laborious process. If you've ever played a control mirror or a midrange mirror or a Lands mirror, or if you've ever played against someone running Sensei's Divining Top, there is a good chance that the game will end in an unintentional draw. Having a limit on sideboarding time improves the chances of finishing a round in time. You have more leeway at events that aren't run at a higher REL, but you're still expected to play at a reasonable pace and to not take excessive time sideboarding.

  7. #7
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    Re: The time it takes someone to sideboard and present their deck question

    Troll plays troll well. Move along.
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  8. #8

    Re: The time it takes someone to sideboard and present their deck question

    Quote Originally Posted by Koby View Post
    Troll plays troll well. Move along.
    My question and concern was duly noted, responded to accurately and respectively, and the response will help others.

    You'll be reported though

  9. #9
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    Re: The time it takes someone to sideboard and present their deck question

    Hovercrafty - your ignorance is very deep. You play on MTGO, you know that sideboarding time is limited to 3:00 minutes.
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  10. #10
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    Re: The time it takes someone to sideboard and present their deck question

    If your sideboard is built correctly, you should already know which cards are coming in and out against all of the top decks. In legacy, you should know instantly how to sideboard against blade control, jund, rug tempo, sneak and show, storm, bug, reanimator, elves, etc. Sideboarding is really part of deckbuilding, and you shouldn't have to do it on the fly at the tournament. You should only need to spend time thinking if your opponent is playing a deck that you weren't able to prepare for. Of course, in this case, you probably don't have much to bring in from the sideboard anyway.

    Often, people will just put graveyard hate, storm hate, or color-specific hate in their sideboards and assume that they're ready. However, you really need to think ahead of time which cards you're going to take out of your deck as well. You know that you want graveyard hate against a graveyard deck, but what do you want it to replace in your deck? Removal? Creatures? Land? Do you want graveyard hate if all they have is snapcaster mage? What if they also have deathrite shaman? The specific graveyard hate cards also matter. All of these decisions can be made before you get to the tournament. This entire process is "building" your sideboard.

  11. #11
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    Re: The time it takes someone to sideboard and present their deck question

    DISCLAIMER - Players generally do not understand abstract concepts of slow play. I will concede that it is a bit of a personal crusade of mine.

    As a judge, the majority of times this rule comes into play are related to picking up a deck for a deck-check. And I can assure you, it is generally one sided. The fact is it isn't fair to the player who managed to SB and shuffle sufficiently in 3 mins.

    As a player, you should always keep track of the time left in the round, and the time you and your opponent are taking to perform specific actions (obviously, the two are independent concepts with dependent results.) If a player takes more than 3 mins to present, the best course of action is to call over a judge (but don't stop the slow player, you will delay things even more,) tell the judge what has happened, and have the judge explain what is wrong to the player.

    This has 2 distinct advantages - 1. When a judge becomes involved, if the interaction takes a decent length of time (anything more than a minute) then the match will receive an extension and you can minimize the effect on actual game time, and 2. In many, many, MANY circumstances, if you have any proof (write down the match time, use a clock) the judge will issue a slow play penalty against that player, and you will receive extra turns at the end of time, in addition to the extension.
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  12. #12

    Re: The time it takes someone to sideboard and present their deck question

    Yes, it's hard to enforce. But the rule must exist, otherwise how are you going to say your opponent is stalling while sideboarding to draw a match?

    Obviously a decent judge won't punish anyone because their opponent says they took 15 minutes to sideboard and has no evidence to prove it. But once the judge is watching a match he can enforce that rule himself and avoid abuse.

    If a player gets several complaints over the course of a tournament for taking too long SBing, the judge can observe that players behavior later on and come to a conclusion himself. Wasn't like that (kinda) how Saito got punished?

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