Ral feels like a combat walker (tapping down an opposing blocker and swinging in with Geist) whereas Ajani Vengeant definitely feels like a control walker. I think it just depends on what you're looking for your 4cc walker to do for you. Although in the context of Modern UWR Midrange, Elspeth would be better than both Ajani Vengeant and Ral Zarek.Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition
The guy combos sweetly with Stasis
I expect it will not be good enough for Legacy though
I think the thing that people are missing with the Ajani Vengeant comparison is that Ral Zarek taps something. Ajani keeps something from untapping, but you can't hit something that's already untapped. Of course, your opponent gets to untap it again on their turn, so it's terrible from a defensive standpoint, but as Vacrix pointed out, it's good for getting creatures through. I'm saying this is potentially Legacy playable, definitely Modern playable and nutty in Standard, at least until the October Rotation when Geist of Saint Traft goes away.
I generally agree with this sentiment, with a caveat: I think Tribal decks will splash the other color for a 2-of from the SB, to push through the last points of damage either with the +1 or the -2. The -2 will be especially useful with Merfolk's more Tempo game. Could it spawn another deck? Possible, but unlikely. After all, Ral is made of AWESOME.
True.
You already said that.I expect it will not be good enough for Legacy though
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
All the designers that worked on this product are fantastic except the lead designer, so I predict plenty of fun cards and horribly unimaginative mechanics.
Please stop talking about whether Force of Will is broken or not. It obviously is, and rather than "the glue that holds vintage together" it would be better to call it "the rug under which you hide the filth until there's so much that you can no longer conceal it".
This is laughable. A year ago people were complaining that the blue decks had finally "solved" vintage, and a year before that Shops was again the bogeyman of the format.
I'd agree that Ral is unplayable because of JTMS...but Stasis is a thing. Ral seems absurd for it. No longer having to splash hard into green or rely on Forsaken City or weird, combined effects. Just one Planeswalker makes the deck.
And Winter Orb.
As being said, UR Goblin Welder-Tangle Wire-stuff tier 3 decks are getting a boost.
Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way.
To be fair, every Planeswalker being made post-Jace the Wallet Slayer will be "unplayable" because WotC would have to make it so good that they'd need to ban it in Standard. Ral will find a home somewhere as he has pretty decent abilities.
Liliana is VERY playable in a post Jace era... I could possibly see Ral seeing some play
I think he meant 4cc planeswalkers as non-4cc planeswalkers (like Liliana of the Veil) obviously aren't fighting with Jace for consideration on that manacurve slot.
Which is why I had "unplayable" in quotations.
Liliana and Elspeth are quite playable, but not as broken as Jace.
Garruk Relentless is also sweet. And Sorin does a good Elspeth impression.
I would be interested in seeing some sort of riduculous RUG Stasis deck with Winter Orb, Ral, Forsaken City, and Quirion Ranger / Scryb Sprite. There is still the issue of killing them, however.
Yeah, so stasis lock is my pet deck.
The issue is that red brings nothing else, imo. I am on U/G with Winter Orb, Stasis, Tanglewire. GSZ for mana dorks and untappers to sustain lock along with Garruk. I am currently testing 1 huntmaster to speed up the clockand kill utility creatures that make it through.
I haven't tested Tamiyo but that feels better since the draw is potentially nuts. Tapped Hierarch, Ranger, Dryad arbor, beast token...draw 4 thanks! Tamiyo's +1 is nice as well. If threats make it through, it's usually just one, maybe two, perma tap is nice. But Tamiyo's ultimate sucks in stasis. Surei get my stuff back, but it's no wincon.
JTMS is great in stasis. We dump our hand quickly and the card quality/adv is great. Threatsthat make it through can be bounced. Fatseal to keep the off the few outs they have, and he is a win con to boot. JTMS > Tamiyo.
Ral? His +1 is awesome for stasis. His -2 is awesome as well. Stasis needs removal. His ultimate is stupid. I get that mtg has a random component...the top of my library, that's all the variance i care to endure. What am i gonna do, even if i flip 3, so what? I mean, what a retarded fucking ultimate. Three turns of exalted ranger beats, yay.
I will def test though, his +1 rocks hard and his -2 is very solid. One taiga + birds is prolly fine. Rangers save duals from wastelands pretty well. But, he sustains lock very well, so may want to run three?
Outside of Huntmaster and Ral, how can red benefit U/G Stasis?
This look like a planeswalker for artifacts decks to me. Tangle Wire, Welder, Mana stones etc... I don't know if this is better than the not so old UB artifact decks that attacked with 5/5 strixes and whatsnot (probably no) but it open possibilities in another color. Welder should still be a pretty good card with a deck that can support it (aka not die if welder do).
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I think this card is going to be solid in the right deck. I agree that he is worse than jace, but his first abioity will create some cool interactions, he can create CA, and his ultimate should win you the game. Also, his ultimate comes much quicker than a jace ultimate.
Even if you ult and flip two extra turns, that means you can let Stasis die, untap, and cast another one while your opponent does nothing. It gives you extra cards to protect the lock. It can let you play enough lands or recharge Forsaken City to drop another Planeswalker or a creature (cough, Huntmaster, cough) to win while Ral rebuilds loyalty maintaining the lock.
He seems really damn good. He does what Garruk does but he appears to do it better. Maybe think about a switch away from UGr towards URg? I mean sure, red adds very little other than Ral and Huntmaster, but those two things are pretty impressive.
Ha ha Stasis, the ultimate prison deck! Has "that deck" had any success in the past, 5 years, I have to admit that is a type of deck I would not mind seeing make a splash somewhere, when I actually played it though it was like 10 years ago and even then it was more of a "fun" or at least "fun for me" deck.
Primary legacy deck High Tide primer
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