[Deck] Castlevania (A.K.A. Burg or BUG in a RUG)

[Barbed Blightning]

Before I start priming, I'll explain the name: it comes from a German team of designers, Carsten Linden, Mike Hoffmann, Timo Schünemann and Florian Koch who concocted a list for GP Stasbourg. They named is "Burg"--conveniently both it's color composition and the word for castle in German. A similar idea has been floating around in my group, though I refer to the deck as BUG in a RUG. German Threshold, similar to Canadian Threshold, seems like a proper formal name.

Anyway, here's an idea for you: let's smash Team America and Canadian Threshold together.

As you might guess, there's a universe of possible cards that could be crammed in such a deck. As such, I'll provide a hypothetical list and links to others as well. Think of this deck as less of a list you tweak (Like its progenitors, BUG and RUG) and more like Junk; that is, a goodstuff.dec.

A typical list (updated 8/29/2013)

Creature (14)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 Tarmogoyf

Instants (24)
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Spell Pierce

Sorcery (4)
4 Ponder

Land (18)
4 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga


SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Dread of Night
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Creeping Tar Pit
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 2 Fire Covenant
SB: 1 Compost


Explanation of certain cards:

The Taiga: Though it seems un-intuitive to run a non-island land in a tempo deck, Taiga does a lot of work in color-fixing. With bot a Taiga and Underground Sea in play, any spell in the deck can be cast.

Fire Covenant: It's on par with Maelstrom Pulse, but can wipe out an entire field instead of only redundant threats. Instant speed also allows for combat-step shenanigans.

Only two Abrupt Decays: though the spell is bonkers in Legacy, in this particular deck the card is difficult to cast and easy to find in a pinch due to the abundance of cantrips.

Coverage:

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...gpstr13/day2#9

Carsten Kotter's "The Triumvirate" of Legacy
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...iumvirate.html

[Barbed Blightning]

[Reserved for Future Content]

[(nameless one)]

Isn't this just 4C Deathrite? I'm pretty sure there's already a thread for this.

[Barbed Blightning]

Isn't this just 4C Deathrite? I'm pretty sure there's already a thread for this.

I was under the impression that 4c DRS was WUBG and more control-oriented. This is a tempo or midrange deck.

[lambert101]

Deck looks solid.
12 counters
8 removal
8 beatsticks
4 utility guys
8 cantrips
20 lands

Welcome to legacy its efficiency meets greed

[Ziveeman]

I posted this in both the RUG and 4C Deathrite thread, and I guess now here. I tested this for GP Denver but ultimately decided not to play it. It was solid in testing (and looks pretty similar to the OP list).

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nimble Mongoose

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Daze
3 Spell Pierce
3 Abrupt Decay

3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest

SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Divert
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Darkblast

Pretty similar to the list you posted. I did run into someone in a Cockatrice match back in December playing almost the exact 60, except replaced Mongoose with Lavamancers. Certainly something to consider.

[phazonmutant]

Tarmogoyf is straight awful. Abrupt Decay is fine, but not worth splashing another color for on its own. What is worth splashing is Deathrite Shaman!

Even if the curve is super low, Deathrite fixes mana, makes Daze better, and helps deploy threats while leaving up Stifle and countermagic. Oh, and also regularly deals 6-8 on his own.

I've been testing a variant of the GP Strasbourg list and made some changes to fit my preferences and meta:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
2 Thought Scour
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Stifle
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Daze
3 Force of Will

4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Taiga
4 Wasteland

// Sideboard
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Engineered Plague
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Envelop
1 Flusterstorm
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Force of Will
1 Life from the Loam
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Submerge

It seems pretty greedy to only be playing 3 Force in the main, but I wasn't sure what else to cut to fit in the 2nd Thought Scour. I found that Deathrite + Mongoose really wanted some Thought Scours to play nice together in the non-control matchups where they aren't stocking their graveyard with spells.

I hate the Taiga, Underground Sea, and Bayou. I've wished I had the Bayou when it was an Underground and I wished I had a Badlands when I had the Bayou. I've also been unable to Daze + play a blue spell because I fetched a non-U land. The deck seems to need 3 different color lands to work correctly. It's just a shitty manabase and I'm not sure how to fix it. Fortunately Stifle stops Wasteland ^^.

Other than the manabase, Deathrite is clutch, Abrupt Decay gets me out of jams that Dismember and Chain Lightning don't, and the board cards are nice. I think this has the potential to be a real deck.

Oh, and 'Goyf sucks. Hate that guy.

[Zirath]

Is Spell Snare necessary in this deck now that you have Abrupt Decay? Snare was used to remove SFM and Goyf primarily in the past but now that you have Abrupt Decay, you have enough removal that Snare seems redundant.

[phazonmutant]

Is Spell Snare necessary in this deck now that you have Abrupt Decay? Snare was used to remove SFM and Goyf primarily in the past but now that you have Abrupt Decay, you have enough removal that Snare seems redundant.

Interesting, that could be the case. I feel that Snare is incredibly well-positioned right now with all the 2-drops running around, but it may be redundant. I like that Snare is good against both creature decks and most combo decks, and it doesn't hurt to have more answers to Goyf.

[Jonathan Alexander]

If I'm not to busy/lazy I might write up a primer on the deck or something. Been a while since I wrote about Magic and I guess it's about time to do so again.
Also, it's strange that nobody likes Counterspell. It's been pretty sweet for us.

[phazonmutant]

If I'm not to busy/lazy I might write up a primer on the deck or something. Been a while since I wrote about Magic and I guess it's about time to do so again.
Also, it's strange that nobody likes Counterspell. It's been pretty sweet for us.

It seems so ambitious to be playing a UU spell in your deck that has a couple of non-U lands and wants to only have a couple lands in play. What does it do that the combination of Pierce and Snare don't?

[Ziveeman]

It seems so ambitious to be playing a UU spell in your deck that has a couple of non-U lands and wants to only have a couple lands in play. What does it do that the combination of Pierce and Snare don't?

If UU is a problem, what about Mana Leak instead of Counterspell? Sure it's dead late game, but so is Spell Pierce, and that card is still awesome.

@Jona: Would definitely want a write-up. You guys were the ones to take it to a GP so I would definitely appreciate any input you have.

[Zirath]

The mana base is pure Blue so I have trouble seeing when you would be unable to cast a UU spell.

My issue with Spell Snare is that it is best when the format is all RUG and Stoneblade. This is not the case. Against Storm, you can only get tutors with it; while very good, there is also the issue that they could simply just cast Ad Nauseam and shut you down. It also doesn't stop Silence/Duress, allowing them to play around your Snare. You cannot play around Counterspell easily.

I actually think Counterspell is really good. I would much rather have it than Snare or Pierce given today's metagame.

How are spells like Fire/Ice, Forked Bolt, Electrolyze and Izzet Charm?

[alphastryk]

The mana base is pure Blue so I have trouble seeing when you would be unable to cast a UU spell.

...

Tiaga and Wasteland are not blue. Some of the posted lists also have a Bayou.

[Barbed Blightning]

The mana base is pure Blue so I have trouble seeing when you would be unable to cast a UU spell.

My issue with Spell Snare is that it is best when the format is all RUG and Stoneblade. This is not the case. Against Storm, you can only get tutors with it; while very good, there is also the issue that they could simply just cast Ad Nauseam and shut you down. It also doesn't stop Silence/Duress, allowing them to play around your Snare. You cannot play around Counterspell easily.

I actually think Counterspell is really good. I would much rather have it than Snare or Pierce given today's metagame.

How are spells like Fire/Ice, Forked Bolt, Electrolyze and Izzet Charm?

My thoughts were more that the meta is full of bobs, hymns and goyfs, and snare fulfills the roll of quasi removal.

I'm happy to add any primers or info to the OP; it's basically finals for me right now so I am busy.

[Jonathan Alexander]

Counterspell was added to our Threshold list shortly before Ghent - Maverick and Miracles were quite the decks back then. Countering "late" Swords to Plowshares was justification enough, but it also countered Knight of the Reliquary. People would sandbag their Knights until you only had one card, then lose it to Counterspell. It's also pretty pretty sweet against any Jaces that get thrown at you. It's especially good when people see you have Pierce, play around it and still get their stuff countered.
The Taiga gets boarded out against combo decks by the way. Looks greedy, feels greedy, still works. Also, I suggest you test the list as it is covered in the GP. When Carsten first sent me the maindeck I mocked him, but when we actually got around to test the deck, it seemed to crush everything.

Edit: I won't have time to write an article in the near future. So I guess you guys will have to figure out yourself what the reasons behind the configurations are. But in general this deck works pretty much the same as regular Threshold.

[Zirath]

Tiaga and Wasteland are not blue. Some of the posted lists also have a Bayou.

The original list is pure blue. Wasteland is barely used to cast most of the spells anyways (Tarmogoyf is essentially the only one). There is no reason that trying to make the mana base pure blue is strictly bad since you play 4 Daze anyways. I am sure there are merits to Bayou and Taiga but only if the list is not as blue heavy.

@Spell Snare: Most of those cards you need to have your two of and you usually have Daze anyways. You also have more options turn 2 with DRS than RUG does. I know there are merits to Snare but I think there are better cards and have since Sneak Show returned.

[SirTylerGalt]

Cool deck!

I just remembered that Caleb Durward wrote an article about 4-color thresh a few months ago:

http://www.channelfireball.com/home/...-color-thresh/

[catmint]

If I would go 4c, I would rather splash red into BUG than replace goyf/nimble with deathrite and splash black for decay/deathrite in RUG.

Splashing decay solves a couple of problems that RUG has, but there are more problems created by loosing nimble or goyf (besides having weaker mana).

Splashing red for BUG solves the "cheap removal" problem "missing reach problem" "handling planeswalker problem" for the cost of more awkward mana (probably loosing all early BB spells, which I am not too fond of anyway).

What I would like to play:

4 deathrite
4 delver
4 Goyf
2 Tombstalker

3 Bolt
3 Decay

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm

4 Force
4 Daze
4 Thoughtseize

20 lands - no fkin clue what could work.

Sideboard including Red-Blast and Ancient Grudge to make the shardless and UWx matchups positive.
Something like
1 Decay
1 Bolt
2 Surgical
2 Plague
2 Red-blast
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Flex for control/midrange with something like Thrun, the last Troll, Winter orb, Sylvan Library or snapcaster mage

[Barbed Blightning]

If I would go 4c, I would rather splash red into BUG than replace goyf/nimble with deathrite and splash black for decay/deathrite in RUG.

Splashing decay solves a couple of problems that RUG has, but there are more problems created by loosing nimble or goyf (besides having weaker mana).

Splashing red for BUG solves the "cheap removal" problem "missing reach problem" "handling planeswalker problem" for the cost of more awkward mana (probably loosing all early BB spells, which I am not too fond of anyway).

What I would like to play:

4 deathrite
4 delver
4 Goyf
2 Tombstalker

3 Bolt
3 Decay

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm

4 Force
4 Daze
4 Thoughtseize

20 lands - no fkin clue what could work.

Sideboard including Red-Blast and Ancient Grudge to make the shardless and UWx matchups positive.
Something like
1 Decay
1 Bolt
2 Surgical
2 Plague
2 Red-blast
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Flex for control/midrange with something like Thrun, the last Troll, Winter orb, Sylvan Library or snapcaster mage

My tweak:

4 Deathrite
4 Delver
3 Goyf
3 Nimble Mongoose

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Lightning Bolt

4 FoW
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce

Mana:

3 Tropical
3 Volcanic
2 Underground

4 Wasteland

3 Misty
3 Scalding
2 Delta

You could also drop the geese, add a goyf and two 'seizes. Personally, I like the idea of playing a bit more towards the RUG end.

Tombstalker's problem is his BB in the cost. If I'm running him, I also want to be running Hymn as I like it much better in tempo than Thoughtseize. Though Stalker is a tank in TA.

Board:

3 Submerge
3 REB
2 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Plague
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Darkblast
1 Sylvan Library


Mostly throwing stuff at the wall here.