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Thread: Theoretical High Stakes Legacy Tournament

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    Theoretical High Stakes Legacy Tournament

    What do you guys suppose the draw would be, and conversely, the difficulty would be, in hosting an open Legacy tournament with a high buy-in put towards a cash prize?

    By high stakes lets say for example the buy-in is $500 hoping to get 100 people, using the $50,000 purse to divide to the top 8.
    -Do you think only a dozen people would show up?
    -Would Wizards show disapproval to such a costly entry?

    What would be the realistic limits to setting a high buy-in while still drawing enough participants that you could boast massive purse amounts?

    World Series of Poker's main event is a $10,000 buy-in netting ~6,000 participants or so, with the first place prize being 8-9 million dollars. And while by no means do I realistically expect a 1:1 implementation, I'm curious to know what the draw of offering even a $1,000,000 first place prize in an open tournament would be, knowing that the prize would generated by a larger than typical buy-in.

    So let's start small, what would be the largest buy-in you would be willing to pay, and what would have to be the cash prize to motivate you?
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    Re: Theoretical High Stakes Legacy Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    -Do you think only a dozen people would show up?
    If that, most likely the perception would be that no one is going to show so it's a waste of time going.

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    -Would Wizards show disapproval to such a costly entry?
    Who gives a fuck?

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    What would be the realistic limits to setting a high buy-in while still drawing enough participants that you could boast massive purse amounts?

    World Series of Poker's main event is a $10,000 buy-in netting ~6,000 participants or so, with the first place prize being 8-9 million dollars. And while by no means do I realistically expect a 1:1 implementation, I'm curious to know what the draw of offering even a $1,000,000 first place prize in an open tournament would be, knowing that the prize would generated by a larger than typical buy-in.

    So let's start small, what would be the largest buy-in you would be willing to pay, and what would have to be the cash prize to motivate you?
    You would be going about it all wrong. The correct way to do something like this is have a number of "feeder" events that qualify you for the main event. See SCG Invitational as an example.
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    Re: Theoretical High Stakes Legacy Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by dontbiteitholmes View Post
    If that, most likely the perception would be that no one is going to show so it's a waste of time going.


    Who gives a fuck?



    You would be going about it all wrong. The correct way to do something like this is have a number of "feeder" events that qualify you for the main event. See SCG Invitational as an example.
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    Re: Theoretical High Stakes Legacy Tournament

    WHY? For $500 I would just rather buy a few staples and grind away I play magic for the game not the prizes. If you want that go and play poker.

    I have a hard time with even $20 tournaments when the prize is power or duals. I just can not justifie that kind of expense unless there is a high chance of me coming out ahead.


    IE: you need a realistic ROI
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    Re: Theoretical High Stakes Legacy Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Fanatic View Post
    WHY? For $500 I would just rather buy a few staples and grind away I play magic for the game not the prizes. If you want that go and play poker.

    I have a hard time with even $20 tournaments when the prize is power or duals. I just can not justifie that kind of expense unless there is a high chance of me coming out ahead.


    IE: you need a realistic ROI
    If there are 100 players putting in $500 each, and the prize payouts equal just $40,000, that's a much higher mean return for one's investment than any SCG open.

    I'm the least risk-averse person I know, so the above scenario sounds great to me. OP's proposed system of using all the entry money as prizes is even better.

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    Re: Theoretical High Stakes Legacy Tournament

    Granted this is for Vintage, but 63 people preregistered for this at $100 buy in: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=45072.0

    So, yes, I do think it is plausible...just not at $500, at least.
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    Re: Theoretical High Stakes Legacy Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by ElricTheWhiteWolf View Post
    Granted this is for Vintage, but 63 people preregistered for this at $100 buy in: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=45072.0

    So, yes, I do think it is plausible...just not at $500, at least.
    Yeah, $100 doesn't seem like an unreasonable number for decent prizes.

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    Re: Theoretical High Stakes Legacy Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Fanatic View Post
    WHY? For $500 I would just rather buy a few staples and grind away I play magic for the game not the prizes. If you want that go and play poker.

    I have a hard time with even $20 tournaments when the prize is power or duals. I just can not justifie that kind of expense unless there is a high chance of me coming out ahead.


    IE: you need a realistic ROI
    Yeah, but you openly admit you're awful at magic. The problem is not the theory, it's that this guy represents a large portion of magic players, who are just the nerdy untalented type. That 60% would never pay even $40 to buy into a tournament, that is unless it's sealed or something. Basically, I hate the argument that this guy presents, because it's a scrubs mentality, but that actually represents a huge chunk of magic players.... Players who obviously have a chance, because it's magic and they're not retarded, but are clearly edged out in playskill by the higher thinkers.

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    Re: Theoretical High Stakes Legacy Tournament

    I would prefer GP size tournaments to be €50-200 entry rather than less (as long as a very large majority of it is prize support). You're paying a fair amount for travel and such anyways, it would greatly improve the EV of such events imo.

    Although I can understand that most less serious players wouldn't be too supportive.
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    Re: Theoretical High Stakes Legacy Tournament

    I would be interested in high-stakes tournament, but not at $500.
    I think the sweet spot would be $100.
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    Re: Theoretical High Stakes Legacy Tournament

    Cheating would be fucking rampant @ $500.00 ... as if it isn't now at early rounds of GPs.

    Also, compare this payout with Bazaar of Moxen ... 50k on 500 is awful compared with the following on 35 ($50)

    Format : Legacy
    Entry fee : 35€

    Winner : Power 9 BB
    Finalist : 40 Dual Lands WB
    3rd-4th : 4 Underground Sea BB
    5th-6th : 4 Tropical Island BB
    7th-8th : 4 Tundra BB
    9th : 1 Underground Sea BB
    10th : 1 Tropical Island BB
    11th : 1 Tundra BB
    12th : 1 Volcanic Island BB
    13th : 1 Savannah BB
    14th : 1 Taiga BB
    15th : 1 Bayou BB
    16th : 1 Scrubland BB
    17th-20th : 1 Underground Sea WB
    21th-24th : 1 Tropical Island WB
    25th-28th : 1 Tundra WB
    29th-32th : 1 Volcanic Island WB
    33th-64th : 1 Non-blue Dual Land WB

  12. #12

    Re: Theoretical High Stakes Legacy Tournament

    I didn't do the math, but it is crazy how much BoM gives out in terms of entry fees. Also, I would totally pay $100 for a big tournament.

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    Re: Theoretical High Stakes Legacy Tournament

    BoM actually isn't much more than the $40 US SCG Legacy opens which is really fucking crazy ...

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    Re: Theoretical High Stakes Legacy Tournament

    Agree about cheating at $500 buy in. At that price I would probably not play anyway. For $100 buy in I would love to play if the event looks to be properly run (maybe extra judges on staff to keep things running smoothly). I think we could muster a solid crowd if run in socal, I think we should put our heads together and organize something.

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    Re: Theoretical High Stakes Legacy Tournament

    In a given region, how many players are comfortable enough in a format to shell out something like $100? I have no idea, but it can't be more than 20 or 30 even near big cities.

    If it was 100% payout, I would gladly play for more than the $40 of an SCG event. But I would only do this in Legacy, not Standard, Modern, or Limited. Other players would have a different choice of format, which is another reason why drawing a large number is not realistic.

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    Re: Theoretical High Stakes Legacy Tournament

    Taking the Bazaar of Moxen model and applying it to the USA might get us closer to that goal. It would have to be hosted in a large, cheap (price, not quality) venue that is relatively central to most Magic markets. I suspect this might still be in the Midwest due to the density of Northeastern, Mid-Atlantic, and Mid-western Magic communities.
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    Re: Theoretical High Stakes Legacy Tournament

    Another reason that would at least interest me is that prize support wouldn't come in the form of store credit or packs or some internal point system to maybe be eligible for prizes later. The prize is cash, the cash of the people you beat to get it. And I get why local stores offer store credit, because there is a cost to keeping the lights on, and that's fine. But I don't need cards, an especially not the $50 i won for 5 hours of work (Quin is work).

    If it was some annual tournament that was a big deal in NYC that could muster a serious cash purse, I felt like that would be an interest to me. I just wondered if other people felt the same way.

    And just as fair, if there were smaller cash games, but like serious cash games, $50 each, winner walks away with a grand, that would also be cool.
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    Re: Theoretical High Stakes Legacy Tournament

    The best part about paying $40 for the new StarCityGames prize structure is you now don't get pens or notepads included in that cost anymore, you need to pay a dollar. Instead, I get a bunch of super useful tokens of derdlers I couldn't give two shits about. Are you fucking kidding me?

    I'd buy-in at $100 for a sweet prize payout.

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    Re: Theoretical High Stakes Legacy Tournament

    If there were a BoM style thing around in the states I would be totally down to play in it. I think a Place such as NYC somewhere would be perfect.


    Or like someone else said, something that has a bunch of feeder events, such as an SCG Invi, but for legacy only would be sweet.
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    Re: Theoretical High Stakes Legacy Tournament

    I would pay as much as $100 for a tournament (maybe up to $200 in the right location and with a known TO), but it would need to have some kind of minimum guaranteed prizes.

    I agree with Koby that a BoM-style payout structure is a superior model, but I have my doubts that the geography of the US could support such a tournament. Although I would love to see a similar event in the US, BoM makes a lot more sense in Europe.

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