This list seems very interesting
Creatures [23]
3 Mirran Crusader
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Instants [6]
2 Disfigure
4 Swords to Plowshares
Sorceries [6]
2 Vindicate
4 Thoughtseize
Artifacts [3]
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Lands [22]
1 Bayou
1 Karakas
1 Swamp
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Plains
2 Windswept Heath
3 Scrubland
3 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Marsh Flats
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Blind Obedience
2 Duress
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Perish
1 Pithing Needle
3 Rest in Peace
2 Zealous Persecution
It seems to have all of the must kill good stuff for your opponent although i'd like to tweak something's like vindicate and the disfigure for maybe some abrupt decays?
You could probably add abrupt decays in, or imo you could just drop those for aether vials. Then this deck would be more aggro... Also I would recommend playing Sword of Light and Shadow over SoFI (or at least have SoLS in the board) cause you run 23 creatures so it's bound to be able to recur something.
This list just looks like B/W DnT without vials and ports tbh, still cool though!
In such a creature heavy build Vials would be golden. You could consider to drop the Crusaders and add Tidehollow Scullers and/or Serra Avengers. There was plenty of discussion regarding such builds a couple of pages before. It plays diffrent then the DGA decks I like to play, but it certainly is viable. Dropping Thalia to 3 might also be worth a thought. Also, I don´t like Disfigures. If I feel like I need more creature removal I´d either run PtE, Darkblasts, Geth´s Verdicts or Chainer´s Edicts SB.
I'm pretty sure the deck creator knows about Aether Vials but really the list is too tight. So -2 Disfigure and -2 Vindicate for 4 Aether Vials?
The deck already has 4 Cavern of Souls
not to nit pick but you can't play serra avenger off vial till turn three... even then she's outclassed by other options at this point bob, tidehollow, thalia or stoneforge are all better options once vial hit's two.
Yes, these are better options. I was just making examples. Regarding Serra Avenger you are wrong. She cannot be CAST within the first, second or third turn. But she can be brought into game by other means.
Edit: Oh, I got what you mean. Misunderstanding from my side. Yes, not until turn three. Still one turn earlier then hardcasting.
Most of the decks listed seem along the lines of Death and Taxes. Pikula’s deck was more monoblack with white in it. You guys have gone monowhite with black in it. Pilula started 10 discard spells, Specter, Shade, Scroll, no Swords to Plowshares even Sinkhole and Vindicate and 25 land. He only had 6 cards with White starting in the deck and 2 more in the sideboard. Later he said he would have put two more Swords in the sideboard. Wow. Obviously the field has changed since then, but I find myself asking would Pikula play any deck even close to what this thread has become here? I seriously doubt it. I think the 10 discard spells are definitely a defining characteristic of the deck backed up by 4 Hypnotic Specter, that’s 14 plus wasteland and Sinkhole and Verdict that’s 22 disruptive elements starting. Why? Read his report. Here is a quote from the article.
Pikula: “…my first instinct was to build a deck that had the following cards:
Dark Confidant
Hypnotic Specter
Hymn to Tourach
Duress
Sinkhole
Wasteland
That was the core of my plan. I was also pretty certain the deck should contain Dark Ritual.” He also talks about the cards have dual roles like Specter is discard AND a threat.
With that in mind I built the following:
4 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 ghost quarter
4 marsh flats
4 wasteland
4 scrubland
2 swamp
1 plains
4 dark ritual
4 hymn to tourach
3 hatred
3 liliana of the veil
3 umezawa's jitte
4 deathrite shaman
4 tidehollow sculler
4 dark confidant
4 hypnotic specter
4 vampire nighthawk
I’m pretty sure Pikula would include Shaman as it has multiple roles and is consistent with his theme. Sculler also falls under the same lines. Nighthawk is somewhat but is nice with Hatred which is a personal choice. Ghost Quarter replaces Sinkhole and has some additional purposes. And I’m pretty sure Liliana would be in his build somewhere if not the sideboard. Jitte obviously has multiple purposes as well. So if you count Quarter, Hymn, Sculler, Wasteland and Specter that’s 20 disruptive elements or 23 with Liliana. Anyway, take it for what its worth but that’s my two cents. And more along the lines I would think this thread should become. It’s a black deck that splashes white. Not the other way around. I definitely would like to see what a thread like that would look like. I have definitely have been testing Mother or Runes, Stoneforge Mystic and Batterskull along with Swords main and it definitely changes what the deck was intended to do. For one its no where near as disruptive and aggressive which is a major drawback. Just my two cents.
You aware, that decks develop and Pikula actually said that years ago? options have changed massively. To pick cards like Specter and leaving out Stoneforge mystics is... nostalgic at best. And you are wrong about what´s the core of a deck: It´s not the ratio between black and white. It´s the way it is played. DGA is a midrange aggro-controle deck with many early disruptions and a quite stable manabase due to being twocolored. These two colors happen to be Black and White. Find the best options of those colors to fit the deckplan. Don´t integrate cards "because white should only be a splash because someone said so years ago".
No offence, but it always gets me startled when someone steps miles back, not to grasp the concept but to replace recently made development with nowadays unuseable cards.
Stoneforge Mystic is basically the best thing to happen to this deck ever, and that includes Liliana. Turn 3 Batterskull seems more than aggressive enough for me, and Hatred just feels like I'm asking my opponent to 2-for-1 me. (3-for-1 if you ritual into it).
The deck has evolved to be efficient above all else. StoP is the most efficient removal, Bob is CA and a beater, as is Mystic. If you want to splash W in a B deck, take a look at The Gate and work from there, but there's no way you'll get those of us who have played these cards is this meta to run Hatred, Hippie, or drop Mystic without some amazing top 8 showings.
Agree for sure.
I am nostalgic towards Hypnotic Specter since I started playing around 1995 and Dark Ritual/Hypie first turn was pretty sick. But it's 2013 and Specter is outclassed. Hatred is another card that used to see tons of play but it too is no longer viable.
Yeah Stoneforge and Liliana both really make Deadguy so efficient. Mystic gives Batterskull and other equipment...which is so vital since most of the creatures in deadguy are tiny. Tokens aren't that scary unless one of them is holding a Jitte. Liliana really made the deck so deadly. A 3 mana planeswalker that is disruption and removal at the same time. Many time I have cast her turn 2 or 3 and it's GG.
I honestly can't see a deadguy version without Stoneforge. I could see a version without Liliana if you are going with an Aether vial/Thalia gameplan.
anyone have any tips for playing against shardless bug, game one i always feel like it's fifty/fifty with thalia and mirran crusader but games two and three have been impossible for me lately
I generally do alright against that deck, although I do see why it can be a tough matchup. I usually side in Engineered Explosives and maybe Rest in Peace vs them. Perish is also a good one. Since they have so much card draw I take out my Hymns but leave in the Thoughtseize and therapies.
Basically, you try and side in cards that are 2 for 1's. Hm.....I'd figure Mirran Crusader would be deadly vs them since most of the creatures are green and most of their removal doesn't affect Crusader.
If your meta is full of this deck....perhaps something like Imp's Mischief? It's a wacky thought I know. You can redirect their Abrupt Decay to kill one of their dudes or living the dream would be to Imp's Mischief the Ancestral Visions to target you.....lol, you draw 3 and take no damage since the CMC of visions is 0.
I brewed up what I feel is a good list. But I have one point where I'm certain. I'd like some input:
3 LSouls, 1 Mirran Crusader and 1 SB LSouls
or
4 LSouls and something else in the SB
Thoughts?
I intend to take this to an event on Saturday:
4 Deathrite
4 Confidant
4 Stoneforge
3 Lingering Souls
1 Mirran Crusader
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
4 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath (should be 2)
3 Verdant Catacombs (should be 2)
SB:
3 Zealous Persecution
3 Thalia
3 Teeg
1 Lingering Souls
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Disfigure
Yea, Sword of War and Peace is very unusual. But back when I often played Stoneforge in Legacy, one of my biggest issues was closing the game promptly. SoWaP provides a significant clock in a small package. SoFI always sucked for me. I'm considering SoLaS or SoFaF for evasion purposes, but their abilities are either sub par or less relevant in this deck..
@Mirri
You are so comitted on green that you might as well be playing the rock. It has goyf and knight :p
Anyway, I would remove the single mirran crusader, the single hymn to tourach and one land (you are running 23... I ran a similar list on 21 comfortably, try 22).
This will make room for cabal therapy which is a good addition to your list. I also don't agree on the RW sword over the UR, but then it's just me. I personally like drawing more cards and distributing shocks.
Why the maelstrom pulse on the side? If you're afraid of tokens, zealous will do. You could use o-rings - they remove the same permanents that pulse, and also work very well against show & tell.
I also don't understand disfigure. You got 7 removal spells + jitte, plus board swipers from the side.
Of course, I am arbitrarily saying stuff here... what do you expect to find at the tournament?
I WAS playing Rock. But KotR is not the brick house that she once was (Abrupt Decay and Deathrite Shaman really pulled the rug out from under her feet). And once you trim her, the only really mighty thing you get from green (that this deck doesn't have) is Goyf. And many many decks have proven that Goyf isn't necessary.
Yea, I'm concerned about the land count. I could probably trim one. But 23 allows me to Wasteland with abandon and tends to pad my hand with excess lands for opposing Hymns and Lilianas on both sides of the table and I can still hardcast Batterskull (or double LSouls around graveyard hate) after. Between Confidant and Top, I can probably keep from getting flooded. More testing is definitely needed on that aspect.
Without the 4th LSouls, I don't think I can abuse Cabal Therapy properly. Maybe -1 Inquisition, +1 Therapy
I doubt I can find a SoWaP for the event, so it'll probably be SoFI. ::Shrug::
Pulse is for Jace mostly and his damn angel tokens. This deck probably has a much better matchup against raw control than ye-olde Rock deck did, so these SHOULD be O-Rings. Thanks for pointing that out.
Disfigure is because I HATE spending StPs and Decays on Deathrite. Yet so many matchups ride on Deathrite! Also, Disfigure kills every single creature (excepting Geist and Goyf, obviously) in the best recent creature decks: Deathblade, BUG, and Death and Taxes (Also Jund!).
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