Mirri, swap pulses for o-rings. Those will help out show & tell shenanigans.
Nevertheless, the misers hymn and crusader are doing you no good at all.
There was a time when I was playing this deck, I used to run bitterblossom main deck (maybe that's where I got more value at the therapies), as well as an ajani.
Another thing you might want to try is a 2-of (or maybe 3) hero of bladehold. It DOES make jund and most bug decks cry.
Also, I disagree on your opinion about knight. I'm still playing it and it seldom lets me down.
Hero of Bladehold is a hell of a card in this deck. The only issue is opposing Goyfs easily getting bigger and blocking her, but overall she is a great threat, and with a weapon like Sword of FaI or FaF she is almost unstoppable. Being Decay and Bolt prrof is just icing.Originally Posted by Sughayyer
In the past, Hero was not great for me. But I am worried about Jund and it seems like a fantastic answer. It fills the role that I had for Crusader (clock). I am loathe to cut the miser's Hymn; I'll decide last minute. My list for the event will now be:
4 Deathrite
4 Confidant
4 Stoneforge
3 Lingering Souls
1 (2) Hero of Bladehold
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1(0) Hymn to Tourach
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
4 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath (should be 2)
3 Verdant Catacombs (should be 2)
SB:
3 Zealous Persecution
3 Thalia
3 Teeg
1 Lingering Souls
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Disfigure
Quick sideboarding question: I can't quite remember, do I keep LSouls in or board LSouls out against Jund? Punishing Fires technically trumps Spirit tokens, but it takes quite a lot of time and resources (which is what LSouls is often about). However, LSouls does make Maelstrom Pulse better, and they'll definitely board that in against us.
Referring to the art on Stasis:
When I paly against jund I keep souls. Thay'll have to deal with shaman and souls. There's a limited number of times they can p. fire you in a turn unless they have a shitton of mana, and you are forcing them to make many decisions (because they must remove every creature you cast, since they all trump their gameplan).
Also jund players usually keep liliana after board, and that is good for you (it's the first card you side out against souls decks).
Now about your sideboard... why the last lingering souls? And also, since you really want to bring disfigures, can I suggest taking 1 disfigure and 1 souls and adding, say, one edict and another kind of black removal? When you face an Iona for white before you get to play liliana you'll understand what I mean.
AH one thing I forgot! Red decks like rug, ur delver, goblins and black decks like to bring things like sulfur elemental, dread of night, night of souls betrayal, etc. For that reason I used to keep 2 intangible virtue when I played with more tokens. I'm just throwing this info 'cause it might be helpful.
Fine list. How do you find War and Peace? I've never played it in Legacy.... Do you use it to protect against Swords and Bolt? I've found Sword of Fire and Ice to be awesome, better than any other equipment not named Jitte or Batterskull, at least for Deadguy (feast and famine is better for decks with Countermagic). And the reason is the amount of removal in typical Deadguy lists. I play so much removal and Lingering Souls that it isn't too hard to connect with SOFI.
Since you play Souls, I would recommend a Cabal Therapy or 2 main.
A souls in the board could be something else IMO. And aside from the Shamans you don't have much Graveyard hate. Against Jund, I've found Engineered Explosives to be ok and Rest in Peace to be really good.
Currently tweeking a death's shadow version of the deck atm. It isnt going so fast atm to much work XD. But trying out Ranger of Eos as 1 so far its been quite awesome to get multiple death's Shadow's and / Deathrites. Also trying out one of Orzhov Charm. Figured out that Linginer souls belongs in the deck very much still. Probes are the reason I went for the death's shado, they make cabal therapy stronger. Its a bit diffrent lowers the converted mana cost and adds killing condiction that isnt costing 4 mana, sorin elspeth hero etc.
Ranger for 2 Death's Shadow. Interesting.
Went to Legacy Tournament in Toronto Primrose Hotel. Made Top 4. 37 players. 6 rounds of swiss. Went 4 wins and 2 draws in the swiss....1-1 in the playoffs. Main list is the same.....in the board I put back in Zealous Persecution and tried out a Golgari Charm.
Round 1. Goblins. 2-1. Batterskull and Sword of Fire and Ice get there. Ringleaders get there game 2 for him. Massive removal for me wins game 3. Highlight....he has a Goblin Sharpshooter, Warchief and a Prospector. I have a Stoneforge, Bob and Revoker (it had named Prospector since that was there from turn 1). He attempts to shoot Bob, and in response I cast Zealous Persecution.....killing his Prospector and Sharpshooter and sparing Bob.
Round 2. Reanimator 2-0. I thoughtseize on the play seeing 2 Lotus Petal, Entomb, Reanimate, animate dead, exhume and Show and tell. Take the entomb.....I win but cringing every time he draws a card since he`s 1 card away from winning. Game 2. I side in 11 cards (LOL). He mulls to 4, which allows me time to get humility out.
Round 3. Merfolk. 2-0. I thoughtseize him seeing Adept, 2 lords and a Spell pierce. I take the adept. I play a Hero of Bladehold shortly after...and then another. He manages to kill the first one by blocking with Lord of Atlantis and a Cursecatcher. But I play another Hero.....so I have a Hero, 2 soldier tokens and a Deathrite Shaman....to nothing on his side...gg. Game 2. he has some lords out and a Kira but I have a Batterskull with Jitte on it. GG.
Round 4. UR Delver 2-1. With Young Pyromancer. Lost game 1 to said Pyromancer. Too many little 1.1`s to deal with. Game 2, Hero is too much for him to handle. And game 3 Batterskull gets there.
Round 5. ID
Round 6. ID
Round 7 playoffs. BUG Tempo 2-0. First turn Hymn to Tourach via Chrome Mox. Followed quickly with Deathrite and Vindicate his only land.
Game 2. Hero of Bladehold wins the top deck war.
Round 8. Canadian Thresh. 0-2. I usually do well vs them....not that day. Honey Badgers get there.
-Hero won my at least 5 games on her own. I know people are skeptical on this card but I tell ya, she`s insane. Since I play so much removal, it`s not too hard to clear the path.
-Never saw the Golgari Charm. Only played it against Goblins and UR Delver. It there in theory to deal with little creatures, especially Elves and as a 5th way to kill Leyline of Sanctity.
-Revoker was good, shutting down Siege-gang Commander.
-Shriekmaw was ok, actually got to cast it for 5, against Goblins.
-Happy I put back in the Zealous Persecution. Saving Dark Confidant and killing 2 guys with a 2 mana spell is pretty sweet.
-I was the only one in the top 8 that wasn't blue. UR delver, 2 Bug Tempo, UR Landstill, Merfolk, 2 Canadian Thresh.....and me.
-Not much show and tell today from what I saw. Heard there were 3 Tin Fins decks.
Took 2nd at my local gaming store tonight with my own take on this archetype. My list is below
Creatures: 18
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia
3 Mirran Crusader
Instant/Sorcery: 13
3 Lingering Souls
1 O-Ring (needs to be a vindicate, just need to get one)
1 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 cabal Therapy
2 Inquisition of Kozileck (needs to be thoughtseize)
Planeswalkers/Artifacts: 7
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Chrome Mox
1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
Lands: 22
3 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
3 Plains
4 swamp
1 Bayou
Sideboard:
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 surgical extraction
2 rest in peace
2 zealous persecution
2 oblivion rings
1 duress
1 inquisition
1 thalia
1 day of judgment
1 path to exile
Matches:
Burn: 2-0
BUG: 0-2
Scape Fit: 2-1
4-Color Chandra (sweet ass deck) 2-0
I wound up getting second as the the BUG pilot wound up winning. I'm rlly liking the list so far. A couple things i've begun to notice lately is that it doesn't feel like traditional deadguy ale at all. The inclusion of deathrite, chrome mox, thalia and liliana make it more of a tempo deck. Hastening your two drops with chrome mox has lead to a bunch of games where I drop a turn one thalia/bob/mystic that just need to be answered... and often times even when they are answered I just play another must answer two drop. I used to run four thalia and three mystics mainboard but have switched back to three thalia main and four mystics main with the last thalia in the side. Thalia is a really strong maindeck card and i strongly suggest running her even with the anti-synergy it has with a lot of the sorceries/instants/planeswalkers.
Some deck thoughts...
- I need to get two thoughtseize and an extra vindicate... cabal therapy is an all-star card even turn one blind.
- I like running only three scrublands, im told i should run a fourth but have found i never rlly am in trouble for running three
- I need to get a singleton karakas
- i like the higher then average number of basics, it's lead to me surviving turn one blood moons and wasteland screws several times
- I really want to try a Singleton Elspeth in the mainboard, not sure what to take out though
- the deck feels more like b/w tempo then deadguy ale. Any time i've gone deathrite, wasteland into bob/mystic or turn two liliana or turn one bob/mystic/thalia i've pretty much won all those games.
- the deck feels very flexible
- im debating about adding another bayou to the list and running two chokes in the sideboard to shore up my matches against BUG and Stoneblade variants.
some troubles i've had now...
- Esper stoneblade/Deathblade i have found to be a very nigh unwinnable match up for myself outside of having easily the perfect opening hand. These two decks effectively do the same things you do while also running blue... where I run thalia and mirran crusader, they run brainstorm and Jace... and the lists that run engineered explosives lead to some hard blowouts
- the decision tree with deck is a lil more shifty then i've given it credit before in the past... it has a really bad overrealliance on two-drops and choosing which one to play first is really tricky. im hoping with practice these decisions get easier as I've just started to get used to the deck. Tonight I've noticed that running bob out first usually isn't a smart play... If i run out stoneforge or thalia first and they day thats fine. Bob can easily find me more of them if they die, bob is what gets you into the late game if your unable to put the nails in the coffin within the first three or four turns. in short i think playing bob later is more beneficial to the decks overall game plan... tho turn one bob off of chrome mox is fucking awesome
The changes and decisions I need help with are subtle but important:
4 Deathrite
4 Confidant
4 Stoneforge
3 Lingering Souls
2 Hero of Bladehold
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
4 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath (should be 2)
3 Verdant Catacombs (should be 2)
SB:
3 Thalia
3 Teeg
1 Lingering Souls
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Disfigure
2 Duress
1 ______
- I decided to go with 2 Hero of Bladehold. It's dead in many matchups, but it is CRITICAL in many others. Given that it fills some of the deck's real weaknesses, I feel like its a very justifiable choice. The alternative was a second Batterskull. However, that loses to all the expected hate.
- I cut Zealous Persecution because of the decrease in Maverick. Also, most matchups where it was relevant, the Disfigures are great also
- I can't figure out what to put in the last slot. I'm torn between Life from the Loam (for RUG and long game control matchups) or Manriki-Gusari (all equipment opponents).
Input, please!
Referring to the art on Stasis:
What is your meta consist of? Without that info it's hard to say....
What's the extra Souls in the board for? I'd probably cut that. Noticed that aside from the Deathrite Shamans, you don't have any GY hate. Assuming there's no Tin Fins or Dredge in your meta.
For RUG, I find Relic of Progenitus, Rest in Peace and Engineered Explosives to be pretty good vs them. Loam is nice in that it can Wastelock them, however if they have any kind of board presence already....Life might not help. And of course, Perish is another option.
If you're bringing in the Oblivion Rings specifically for Show and Tell then you might as well use Angel of Despair. I can't think of any other MU you would look to O Ring to turn the tide in your favor, so you might as well play the best answer you can for that niche.
The Quad Cities: twice as nice as the Twin Cities.
Careful sifting of my meta reminds me that equipment is not nearly as prevalent as other strategies. So that settles that argument!
The Lingering Souls in the SB are debatable, but I think it's time to try it without them.
LftL was mostly for RECOVERING from RUG's Wastelands and Stifles. But it is even more tempo loss against an already tempo deck.
Oblivion Ring is viable vs any control deck or any matchup where you absolutely NEED more removal. Angel of Despair does not provide that.
Graveyard hate is something I always mean to fit in. Given that Stifle is in so many decks these days, Relic of Progenitus and Tormod's Crypt are vulnerable. So I guess Rest In Peace it is!
SB:
3 Thalia
3 Teeg
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Disfigure
2 Duress
2 Rest in Peace
Referring to the art on Stasis:
im thinking of adding an elspeth knight errant and 2 mindcensors to my list was wondering what people's experiences with her in the deck were ?
I have 1 MB - nothing but good things to say.
what about mindcensors ?
They are really good when you respond to your opponents search effect with them.
Like the new srylands might try out some. Anything to increase consistency.
The scry lands do not belong in this deck (to be honest, I'm not sure they belong in ANY legacy deck). CIPT in this format better come with a HUGE bonus. If you need increased consistency, play Bob and/or Top.
Referring to the art on Stasis:
Those scry lands aren't Legacy viable imo. If they were fetchable.......perhaps as a 1 of. I'm more annoyed that they are rares, why couldn't they be uncommon? The Zendikar tap lands are duals that gain a life.....sure Scry 1 is better than 1 life but not that much better.
Any sideboarding help vs Jund or Junk decks? I find those matchups to be 50/50, LOL despite what fellow poster Razvan thinks, he just seems to have the uncanny ability to face down Hero of Bladehold on empty boards.
Tried out Mangara in the board....didn't see a matchup where he'd fit in. Maybe it should have been a Gatekeeper of Malakir instead....
Beat Rug Delver and Tezzeret Thopter foundry. Lost to rug, Jund, and Junk.
Tell me specifically the MUs you consider control. In other words, when are you the aggro? Just so we have no miscommunication. I ask so we can have a discussion about your other sb cards. Because in my experience, Thalia and Teeg are better than O Ring against the traditional elements of a control deck. So if you have more than six slots to take out, then O Ring will make the cut. And you may, between five discard and four StP, but I dunno your exact sb plan.
The Quad Cities: twice as nice as the Twin Cities.
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