Uh, that´s neat indeed. How many of each did you run in Standard?Originally Posted by Kich867
I supposdly post a reply today earlier, but my stupid phone browser cut half of the text leaving only the quote. I'll post again when I get home, though most of what I was going to say was already said.
In standard i ran 4 of each. The power it gave with t1 mana dork t2 splicer and t3 restoration angel.
The format is slower but thats cos the amount of removal in decks has increased alot. Decks used to run about 4 removal in their deck, pretty much only bolts and swords. The amount of removal has slowed down the format.
may.
That's what I get for thinking of it like Flickerwisp.
I still feel of you want to flash guys in, UW(b) with Clique is probably where you want to be. Blinking Splicers and stuff sounds cool, but leaving up 4 mana isn't something I usually find myself doing.
A card that is going back in my sideboard is Faerie Macabre. Maybe as many as four. I have a feeling that Tinfins is going to rise in popularity in the upcoming weeks.
The Quad Cities: twice as nice as the Twin Cities.
It could be. I have that deck built and it's fairly consistent. In testing I usually win turn 1-3. I would diversify the hate a little bit as Tinfins does play Cabal Therapy. So maybe run a few Surgical Extractions....I found that to be the most annoying card to deal with so far in testing Tinfins.
As far as the Jund matchup goes, in reply to another poster....I usually side in some mass GY hate like Rest in Peace and Relic of Progenitus and then mass removal like EE. I find RIP and Relic to be really good vs Jund as it effects Lavamancer, Goyf, Ancient Grudge flashback, and Deathrite shaman. Even though I have a winning record vs Jund, I do find it to be a tough matchup and would say Jund would be favored. Also in terms of Deathrite Shaman and Lingering Soul interaction.....if you have 5 mana you can play and flashback the Souls as you have Priority. Not a great plan but it's there.
Oh, I recently took out all the Bitterblossoms and haven't looked back. I do miss it but.....
1. I have died to bitterblossom quite a few times. WAY more than Bob. I think in tournament play I have lost to Bob only 3 times. Bitterblossom it's closer to 10.
2. I won't miss making Goyf +2/+2 bigger. lol.
@wilkin
can you post your list, or link us to it?
Thanks!
Went 3-2 drop at Tournament for a Lotus. 72 people I believe...7 rounds. There was a TON of Sneak and Show...so my sideboard was a good call.....although i didn't face any of those decks.
Decklist....
4 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Hero of Bladehold
2 Shriekmaw
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Lingering Souls
2 Chrome Mox
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
4 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wasteland
3 Swamp
1 Plains
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rest in Peace
2 Humility
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Thoughtseize
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Engineered Explosives
Match 1. Christopher with RUG durdle control. lol. Last time I played him he was Epser Blade. Not so fortunate this time.
This deck has Punishing Fire, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Academy Ruins, Life from the Loam and Engineered Explosives. Lost 2-0
I did have a good start game 1.....if he was Canadian Threshold. lol. Turn 1 Hymn to Tourach via Chrome Mox. Turn 2 Stoneforge Mystic. Turn 3 Liliana of the Veil (Mystic was killed).
Sided in Rest in Peace, Relic of Progenitus and an Extraction. Didn't matter as his deck has inevitability. LOL, my copious amount of GY isn't enough.
Match 2. VS Affinity. Won 2-1. Aggro decks tend to give me problems. Game 1 he pukes out his entire hand. Boo urns. Sided in an Edict, Persecution and both explosives...taking out the Shriekmaws and 2 Vindicates. His start isn't as fast as he's stuck on one Springleaf Drum and one Ancient Tomb. Game Changed in game 2 was he had a Pithing Needle on Mystic. So I blow up the explosives at 1, taking out the Drum and Needle.....using Mystic to bring in Batterskull and then wasting his only land. Game 3 he was mana flooded. He later tells me he sided out Thoughcast against me for Whipflare. Whipflare is an awesome card but I can't see how you would side out Card Advantage like Thoughtcast.
Match 3. vs Goblins. Steve Tomik. Won 2-1. A bad matchup as I haven't used Engineered Plague in a while. Game 1.....Double Lackey and Vial. Game 2. Sided in the Explosives, Persecution, Revoker and both humility. Batterskull gets there. Game 3. I was down to 2 life for the longest time....a few timely Thoughtseizes were huge....He had a Vial out but I had Revoker naming Vial...So twice he would Matron for a Ringleader (not enough mana to cast both) and then I would thoughtseize it away. Eventually I was able to bring in Batterskull and Persecution was huge....he had a Lackey, Matron and Ringleader out...I had Batterskull with Germ, Stoneforge and Revoker. Zealous Persecution then did a pretty big swing. Close game as I was at 1 life....a Siege gang Commander or Tuktuk Scrapper and I'm done.
Match 4. BUG Control. Lost 2-0. LOL, turns out Beating Liliana and Jace at the same time is impossible. Put in another Thoughtseize and a Revoker but it didn't help....
Match 5. Affinity. Won 2-1. Again. Ugh. Turn 1 he pukes his hand out. I only play a swamp and then strategically scoop. Same sideboard as the other affinity. Batterskull and Jitte go there game 2. Game 3 was a blowout for me...at the end it was Batterskull, Jitte, SOFI, Mystic, Bob, 2 Lingering Soul tokens and then I played Hero to seal the deal. Or Overkill, whatever works. Persecution was big in game 2 killing a Signal Pest and Memnite. He later mentions he had a Jitte in sideboard but didn't put it in against me.....
I drop since I didn't have a chance at top 8 and more importantly played in the Legacy Side event playing Tin Fins. Finished 2nd (9 people) and it was fun being able to kill someone turn 1 which I did twice. I also beat Jund with an active Shaman and Nihil Spellbomb by playing Show and tell.
Observations.
-Zealous Persecution is niche (ie. wouldn't side it in against a lot of opponents) but against the opponents you need it against it can be a huge swing for only 2 mana.
-Phyrexian Revoker was good....Shutting down Cranial Plating or especially Aether Vial. I realize he's uber Fragile, especially in comparison to Pithing Needle but I find Needle to be just as vulnerable in games 2 and 3 since the opponent knows we play (assuming I don't snap scoop lol) lots of juicy equipment. Plus being a bear is nice as it's a beater and can pick up a sword.
-Explosives was alright....2 for 1'ed Affinity a couple of times. And slowed down Goblins a bit.
-I still like Chrome Mox. Was able to turn 1 Hymn to Tourach twice.
-Shriekmaw is usually good for me.....today was bad as only Goblin matchup was relevant.
-Only saw Hero of Bladehold in my hand twice today. Which sucks since she usually does end the game when I cast her.
-Punishing Fire is uber against us. LOL, once upon a time I played Phyrexian Obliterator when Punishing Fire was everywhere. Against white decks he sucked, against red decks he was boss. Hehe, they need to make a better Crimson Acolyte or Absolute Law.
May take out Thalia for Another Revoker. I find Thalia can hurt me just as much....even in matchups against Storm sometimes. Revoker, while fragile can at least name something in most peoples decks....from Cranial Plating to Jace to Sneak Attack. Why couldn't they make the Revoker a 2/2.
Punishing fire combo is not as cracked up against us. They have to waste 4 mana to kill 2 lingering souls tokens? Excuse me, but thats terrible.
If you are running a heavy tokens based BW build, you should win vs jund...
I made 12th out of 65 people in Hannover (Germany) with DeadGuy. Went 4-1-2.
Round 1: vs. GBw Nic Fit; 2-1 win
G1: I have removal for his creatures. Veteran Explorer actually helps me playing my own threats.
G2: Deed. More Deed. He eventually finishes with Baneslayer Angel.
G3: I recover from several Deeds because Lingering Souls is awesome. We go into turns. I deal him exactly 16 damage in the 5th and last extra turn of the game, because of tokens equipped with Jitte and Sword. (He was at 16 obviously).
Round 2: vs. Death n' Taxes; 1-1-1 draw
Friend of mine. We I.D. and played for fun. I would have won that match.
Round 3: vs. Punishing Jund; 2-1 win
G1: Masses of Spirit tokens overwhelm him.
G2: Jund does what Junf does. Playing threat after threat, while cascading into other threats, while removing your permanents.
G3: I am able to discard most of his important cards. He gets mana flooded. Bob stays on the field for several turns = win.
Round 4: vs. RUG Delver; 2-0 win
G1: I start with discarding his Mongoose after he has taken two mulligans. Bobs and Stoneforge Mystics get there. Winning on 5 cards with RUG seems not to be easy.
G2: I can handle his creatures with Swords and Spirit tokens. Hero of BLadehold represents a big clock, although he stifles the soldier trigger twice. He cant keep up with my token army and i win.
Round 5: vs. LED-Dredge; 2-1 win
G1: I cannot stop Zombie and Ichorid beats.
G2: Surgical Extraction on his Bridges followed by Rest in Peace is crippling him. Jitte gets equipped and connects. Win.
G3: Most epic match of the day. I start with discarding his Bridges and exiling all of them with Extraction. He dredges quite well and threatens to overwhelm me with Ichorid and Ashen Ghouls. I am able to stabilize with one Deathrite Shaman and one Mother of Runes on 1 life without a green mana source, but with an equipped Jitte. He destroys the Jitte with Nature's Claim, which nets me 4 life. I am able to fetch on a green source now and manage to survive, while slowly exiling his Ichorids and Ashen Ghouls with my DRS. Shortly before turns, he dies because his library is empty.
At this point i know that top 8 is in reach, and i am 3rd or 4th in standings.
Round 6: vs. Sneak Show; 0-2 lose
G1: Turn two Emrakul yada yada.
G2: My board is not well prepared for this matchup. I cannot find any discard spells while mulliganing deep. Sneak Attack finishes me off.
This match was over after 10-15 minutes. :(
Round 7: vs. Cabal ANT; 1-1-1 draw
G1: I know what he is playing, because he played right next to me in Round 6. I try to mulligan on discard spells, but can't find any. He goes off.
G2: Turn 1 Mother of Runes. Turn two Ethersworn Canonist.
G3: I am able to discard a lot of his important spells. Sadly, he discards my Rest in Peace, so his Cabal Rituals stay active. He keeps pondering over his decisions and time goes by without him doing anything relevant. I find an Ethersworn Canonist and stall him until extra turns begin. He can bounce my Canonist EOT on Extra Turn 4, but realizes, that he needs one more turn to go off safely. In the end he uses Burning Wish to get a Gitaxian Probe to find one out of two relevant cards on top of his deck (Ill Gotten Gains, or Past in Flames). He draws a mana source and we shake hands.
I am happy, because i am sure that i would have lost G3 here, if my opponent could get another turn.
In the end, i finished at 12th place and win 2 Green Sun's Zenith.
Decklist
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
2 Hero of Bladehold
2 Tidehollow Skuller
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Isolated Chapel
4 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Scrubland
1 Savannah
4 Plains
4 Swamps
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lingering Souls
2 Vindicate
Sideboard
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Rest in Peace
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Duress
2 Perish
Note: Normally i would have played without Isolated Chapel and with Wastelands. But i lend them to my friend who played Death n' Taxes.
Last edited by JanoschEausH; 03-20-2013 at 03:05 PM.
LCL 2013 - Marzo
Number of Players : 106
Date: March/16th/2013
~7th place - Pedro Posada
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...3&iddeck=76022
Creatures [12]
3 Dark Confidant
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
Instants [7]
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares
Sorceries [15]
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
3 Vindicate
Planeswalkers [3]
3 Liliana of the Veil
Artifacts [2]
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Lands [21]
1 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
3 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
Sideboard [15]
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Choke
3 Perish
1 Pithing Needle
4 Rest in Peace
2 Zealous Persecution
As you can see though, this version has a splash of green in it for Abrupt Decay & Deathrite Shaman, as well as sideboard Choke, but the deck is still focused in heavy disruption that is this type of strategy. In either case, it was a recent placing I came across and thought I'd share it. ^.^
Primary legacy deck High Tide primer
There's almost nothing seperating Deadguy Ale decks that splash green for Abrupt Decay, full usage from DRS, and green SB cards and Junk decks. Deadguy Ale is literally 4 Goyfs away from just being a Junk deck. What are Deadguy players' thought on that?
This isn't true. Green gives you Goyf, Knight, Decay, GSZ and Library. Those are all staples of Junk, so you'd be changing about 25% of the deck, excluding lands.
I think if you're going to play Deadguy, you can play a single Bayou for DRS, but that's the extent you should go into the green splash. Otherwise, you should do as you're suggesting and play Junk.
The Quad Cities: twice as nice as the Twin Cities.
This is my Junk build:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lingering Souls
4 Thoughtseize
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Scrubland
4 Bayou
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
Now, comparing what I've been running for Junk for the past month (dominating other grindy decks with ease), there's almost no difference between my Junk list and Deadguy Ale lists than 4 Goyf.
Your Junk list is very different from the others. Most of those lists have at most 2 SFM because of GSZ. In your singular case, yes, it's pretty much Deadguy with Goyf and Decay.
The Quad Cities: twice as nice as the Twin Cities.
For me it's a real dilemma. Goyf is fantastic, so is bitterblossom. Each one for it's reasons.
Played Deadguy Ale for a while last winter. I love the list. But I'm not convinced with the current list....I still believe it could be a Tier 1 deck.
Im not 100% sure about the green splash. Yes, it does open the deck to amazing utility cards (DRS and Decay, and Im not even talking about library, goyfs and such) but I always saw my MO as going turn 1 hymn or T1 thoughseize.
Correct me if im wrong.
When I look at Junk and Deadguy, one of the main strengths Deadguy has over Junk is the ability to run a ton of basics; this makes Deadguy more consistent than Junk due to not having to care about your Jund opponent opening with 2x Wasteland. Everything else though, Junk can do as well as Deadguy (Junk can run a similar disruption suite, similar creature suite, etc), and sometimes do it better due to having access to green (Abrupt Decay/Maelstrom Pulse > Vindicate, sideboard becomes stronger with green cards like Gaddock Teeg, Choke, etc). Once people start "splashing" green, they cut down on their basic land count, which takes away one of the advantages of playing Deadguy over Junk.
So I ask this: assuming access to cards isn't the issue, why would you run a substantial amount of green mana (3x Bayou in that list feline posted) and not run Goyf? I can't think of any matchup where I'm disappointed to see 2x Goyf in my opener; it's a clock versus combo, a clock versus control, can help stabilize versus other Goyf decks, and it trumps other creature decks that don't run Goyf.
Arsenal: I think some people may play Deadguy because they don't own Goyfs for Junk. That's me at least. I know that there are Junk lists out there that don't run him, but I think that is overall wrong. I think that Deadguy supports SFM much better than Junk, esp the variants running Bitterblossom and Souls. All those fliers are awesome with SFM. I have recently made a splash for DRS but that's it. As much as I like Abrupt Decay I feel that I should just play GSZ, Knight and the other good green cards...so, Junk.
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