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Thread: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

  1. #6181

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Heres the list I'm currently testing:

    3x Swamp
    2x Plains
    3x Scrubland
    4x Marsh Flats
    1x Flooded Strand
    2x Bloodstained Mire
    1x Polluted Delta
    3x Wasteland
    1x Karakas
    1x Silent Clearing
    1x Shambling Vent
    4x Swords to Plowshares
    4x Thoughtseize
    2x Inquisition of Kozilek
    4x Dark Confidant
    4x Stoneforge Mystic
    4x Hymn to Tourach
    1x Bitterblossom
    3x Liliana of the Veil
    1x Liliana, the Last Hope
    3x Lingering Souls
    2x Vindicate
    2x Plague Engineer
    1x Sevinne's Reclamation
    1x Umezawa's Jitte
    1x Sword of Fire and Ice
    1x Batterskull

    Been running this list for awhile now even during the W6 meta but have made a few changes. Currently there are 5 flex spots that I see 1 Fetch, 1 Bitterblossom, 2 Hymns, 1 Sevinnes. I could run a chrome mox over the fetch but i never liked it because pitching a card to jam an early SFM or bob to only get it plowed or bolted seems bad. The 2 hymns used to be Tidehollow scullers but with K command back in the meta they just seem bad. I could see myself going back to a split of 2 Hymn and 2 Collective brutality. The bitterblossom has been okay, its another threat but just dont know if theres something better to run over it. Finally with Sevinnes, this is the newest card ive been testing and its been mediocre so far. A lot of the times i draw it theres no real targets to get back but that has to due with a lot of the testing ive done has been against bant miracles. The card it replaced was Kaya's guile which i enjoyed a lot so maybe might put it back in. The last change i made to the deck post W6 was putting shambling vent back in for the 4th wasteland. With miracles being a main deck again the ol' shambles protects us from terminus and can hold equipment late game if it comes to it. It has saved me many times and is welcomed back to the deck wholeheartedly. I would like to know your thoughts on the deck and will gladly comment on any of my deck choices.

  2. #6182

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    I tried kaya's guile. I liked it but the 3 mana slot is kind of cluttered right now. I like vent but will give castle lochtwein a shot. Have a murderous rider main atm, and it's been ok. Had to cut my beloved shriekmaw to make room though. Lol, my deck lost a bit of its identity. At least i still have hero of bladehold.

  3. #6183

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    All:

    Have we considered splashing a 3rd color? I think the deck as currently constructed may have too high of a curve tapping out at sorcery speed.
    If we splash green for 4 Birds of Paradise, we could lean harder into one mana discard clearing the way for 2 mana bombs - Stoneforge Mystic, Dark Confidant, Bitterblossom, and Sylvan Library. These two mana bombs all generate significant card advantage.
    Additionally, we could curve top with some back breaking 3 cmc walkers - Liliana of the Veil, Liliana the Last Hope.

    Here's what I propose:

    4 Birds of Paradise
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    1 Batterskull
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Umezawa's Jitte or Sword of Feast and Famine
    4 Dark Confidant
    0 to 2 Tarmogoyf
    1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang

    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Bitterblossom

    2 Liliana the Last Hope
    1 Vraska, Golgari Queen
    0 to 2 Liliana of the Veil

    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Inquisition of Kozilek
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Abrupt Decay or Assassin's Trophy
    1 Vindicate

    4 Wasteland
    3 Bayou
    3 Scrubland
    2 Savannah
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Marsh Flats
    1 Forest
    1 Swamp


    Sideboard:
    Umezawa's Jitte
    Sword of Feast and Famine
    Veil of Summer
    Containment Priest
    Leyline of the Void
    Leyline of Sanctity
    Surgical Extraction
    Pithing Needle
    Nihil Spellbomb
    Rest in Peace
    Ethersworn Canonist
    Sanctum Prelate
    Gaddock Teeg
    Ashiok, Dream Render
    Palace jailer

  4. #6184
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Well if you consider green then you kinda should look back at the DRS era, which was when we where actually splashing it. I think the only cards aside DRS that showed up frequently in lists where decays, 2 goyfs for beats and libraries nothing else really.

    I did try out grim flayers in the past which in some games where great whereas others they felt to wonky, overall though it wasn't THAT bad imo, synched pretty well with dark confidant.

    If I use BOB's, or Hierarch, I kinda expect you want to go from 1 drop into 3 drop, I don't really see why your list wants a mana boost as most is CMC 2. I understand wanting some mana fixing, but I don't think its worth the slot for that, drawing into a mana dork midgame feels pretty bad if you have nothing to ditch excess mana into. I would rather consider running OUaT or run some Urborgs if your worried bout the BB casting costs.

    Some food for thought as an enchantress player I am used playing with mirri's guile over sylvan library, note that this works during your upkeep rather then your draw step, so you can use it before the dark confidant trigger. (Comes out at same speed as the dork, doesn't give the mana boost but the card selection might make you dig into your desired lands faster with the help of a fetch or 2.)
    Decks I own: 2x DnTx [B,G,R], Deadguy Ale, Maverick, Elves, Enchantress [WG/GU], Goblins, (Shardless) BUG, Food Chain, Aluren, High tide (reset/spiral), UR delver, RUG delver, Grixis Delver, Reanimator, Lands, Dark Depths (turbo / selesnya / hoogaak)

    Try not to become a man of success but rather try to become a man of value. A.E. (1879 - 1955)

  5. #6185
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss View Post
    All:

    Have we considered splashing a 3rd color? I think the deck as currently constructed may have too high of a curve tapping out at sorcery speed.
    If we splash green for 4 Birds of Paradise, we could lean harder into one mana discard clearing the way for 2 mana bombs - Stoneforge Mystic, Dark Confidant, Bitterblossom, and Sylvan Library. These two mana bombs all generate significant card advantage.
    Additionally, we could curve top with some back breaking 3 cmc walkers - Liliana of the Veil, Liliana the Last Hope.
    Brother, you are thinking the thoughts that are always in my head regarding the 3rd color. The problem in the past has mostly been vs decks that tax your manabase e.g. delver, D&T, etc. I used to play ale splashing green for sylvan/choke in the DRS Czech Pile days and it was pretty good vs all of those types of decks. Since we've lost mana fixing in black, you gotta rely on your splash color to help fix. I also think that Emurian makes a great point regarding the 1 to 3 drop curve, we don't really have that. Don't get me wrong Liliana/Souls are fantastic cards but they aren't the bomby threats that they used to be back in the innistrad days and most of the meat of Ale has always been the 2 drop section.

    Something that might be worth considering is instead of playing manadorks, playing Arcum's Astrolabe instead. It fixes your mana, doesn't actively put too much of a strain on your 3rd color, and later in the game it cycles. I haven't played MTG in a while so I might just be talking out of my ass.

    I like guile as a card, I would be a little wary of splashing for cards like that though. When I splash for cards I think that they should be extremely high impact like library, which basically will win you the game vs most decks if it resolves and stays on the board for a turn.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  6. #6186

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Just looked at the GP Bologna decklists and deadguy had a presence! 1 person took the deck to the event which is exciting!! They finished 873 out of 1600 but hey, im just glad it put up some results.

    Here is the deck list they ran:

    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    3 Tidehollow Sculler
    2 Liliana of the Veil
    1 Batterskull
    1 Bitterblossom
    2 Collective Brutality
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    2 Inquisition of Kozilek
    3 Lingering Souls
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Thoughtseize
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    2 Vindicate
    4 Marsh Flats
    1 Plains
    4 Scrubland
    2 Shambling Vent
    7 Swamp
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Wasteland

    Sideboard:
    1 Containment Priest
    1 Council's Judgment
    1 Damnation
    1 Diabolic Edict
    1 Dread of Night
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    3 Faerie Macabre
    1 Fatal Push
    1 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
    1 Rest in Peace
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Zealous Persecution

    Seems like a pretty stock build but what interests me is that there are no plague engineers in the 75 and in the main they cut back on walkers with only running 2 LOTV. Also looking at the mana base they are running 7 basic swamps which I can understand since many times i have a hymn in my hand and only have 1 swamp.

  7. #6187
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post

    I like guile as a card, I would be a little wary of splashing for cards like that though. When I splash for cards I think that they should be extremely high impact like library, which basically will win you the game vs most decks if it resolves and stays on the board for a turn.
    I don't see library as a win card like this tbh, imo Dark confidant already strains your lifetotal, making Library less appealing in my eyes. When I ran Deadguy at my shop I opted sword of light and shadow over fire and ice for the lifegain + recursion in combination with Kambal.

    Lets be fair, in most games you tend to draw 2 cards on average from a library. You cannot really pay more life if you also run confidants unless your board state allows you to spend more life, (Bskull online) which in my eyes means you are already winning at that point and the library is a win more card in that situation.

    Mirri's guile also works around Narset and Leovold unlike Library. So it has some ups over library that makes it interesting imo.

    Not trying to discredit your opinion, just pointing out I don't see library as the win card you describe that takes over if it sticks for a turn.
    Decks I own: 2x DnTx [B,G,R], Deadguy Ale, Maverick, Elves, Enchantress [WG/GU], Goblins, (Shardless) BUG, Food Chain, Aluren, High tide (reset/spiral), UR delver, RUG delver, Grixis Delver, Reanimator, Lands, Dark Depths (turbo / selesnya / hoogaak)

    Try not to become a man of success but rather try to become a man of value. A.E. (1879 - 1955)

  8. #6188
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Emurian View Post
    I don't see library as a win card like this tbh, imo Dark confidant already strains your lifetotal, making Library less appealing in my eyes. When I ran Deadguy at my shop I opted sword of light and shadow over fire and ice for the lifegain + recursion in combination with Kambal.

    Lets be fair, in most games you tend to draw 2 cards on average from a library. You cannot really pay more life if you also run confidants unless your board state allows you to spend more life, (Bskull online) which in my eyes means you are already winning at that point and the library is a win more card in that situation.

    Mirri's guile also works around Narset and Leovold unlike Library. So it has some ups over library that makes it interesting imo.

    Not trying to discredit your opinion, just pointing out I don't see library as the win card you describe that takes over if it sticks for a turn.
    Guile is strictly card disadvantage though, you'll never recoup the card you lost for it; it's a harsh cost you're paying for selection in an attrition heavy deck.

  9. #6189

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Not a big fan of Mirri's Guile or Tarmogoyf

    I like the manabase as just 2 colors. I'd rather try a Castle Lochtwein for additional card advantage and I think with Gurmag Angler as an available option, Goyf isn't worth splashing another color for.

    I run 2 Anglers currently and I don't get punished too often by Dark Confidant. And Angler being at times 1 mana is huge as I have played say a Liliana and a Angler in the same turn. Trying a Castle Lochtwein in place of a Shambling Vent atm. Haven't tested much with Castle in Dead guy. RIght now I'm on a Black green Leyline Helm deck that is playing Karn, the Great Creator, Liliana of the Veil and Liliana, the Last Hope. I do play Castles there and they have been ok.

  10. #6190
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Is Hidden Stockpile an option? It only takes a single fetchland to get the minimal payoff of a token and it can be a way to convert chump blockers into scrys. With Lingering Souls, and sometimes Bitterblossom, being the main threats Stockpile seems to synergize really well. Cards like Cabal Therapy get quite good with it as well, providing ways to maximize the synergy into strong disruption. I tried Stockpile a little while back and went super deep into combos with it (Bloodghast, Cabal Therapy, Collective Brutality) but I think 1-2 copies could be used simply as a value too.
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  11. #6191
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Hi guys! I have taken a break from legacy since Deathrite was banned and I plan to come back. Here is the list:
    https://scryfall.com/@Ganfar/decks/e...a-5140d0a95d19

    I am bit unsure about the meta atm. Nobody seems to play with Mother of Runes and I want to replace her with something else. Sre Liliana of The Veil become good again in the meta?
    Deadguy ale Primer: http://articles.mtgcardmarket.com/br...n-deadguy-ale/ (Jeff did it before me)

  12. #6192
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganfar View Post
    Hi guys! I have taken a break from legacy since Deathrite was banned and I plan to come back. Here is the list:
    https://scryfall.com/@Ganfar/decks/e...a-5140d0a95d19

    I am bit unsure about the meta atm. Nobody seems to play with Mother of Runes and I want to replace her with something else. Sre Liliana of The Veil become good again in the meta?
    Welcome back, Ganfar! I think what you need to be familiar with are a couple of format-defining cards right now, I'll just introduce them quickly and add a few comments to get your thinking started, other people in this thread will have more relevant input based on experiences playing this deck and all: Oko, Thief of Crowns making Lingering Souls and Bitterblossom better and equipment a bit worse but still good, Plague Engineer making Mother of Runes and overloading on humans worse (many decks changed some number to Giver of Runes), and Veil of Summer making discard much worse. Many combo decks appear to be playing Veil maindeck even, and some combo decks stop playing discard. Show and Tell turned into a Bant deck (the old version is still around, I think) and runs Teferi, Time Raveler. You really want permanent based hate to complement your discard such as Deafening Silence or Ethersworn Canonist, and you consider the rest, maybe Oblivion Ring for Show and Tell deck, etc etc. Miracles for example has turned into an Oko deck. Council's Judgement is good too since it's white.

  13. #6193

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Horizon canopy is a bit weird. I didnt see any splash for green cards or engineered explosives. A silent clearing is way better. Yeah, oko is a huge problem. Which is why I'm playing murderous rider. There is a bit of an uptick in liliana, the last hope but not much.

    Veil of summer is a busted magic card. Many decks from miracles to storm are main decking it

    There is less true name nemesis running around but I still like liliana of the veil since I feel our deck is an attrition deck.

  14. #6194
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Can inform you all that Ganfar made it to the finals of a local relatively small tournament but mid-high stakes. Don't know the outcome of the finals but it was vs Depths and will be interesting to hear what Ganfar played [edit: oh, the list was above, but I wonder if there were any updates]. :) Congratulations by the way!

  15. #6195
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Was apparently a second place, here's the list: https://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=32701&iddeck=285781

  16. #6196
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilkin View Post
    Horizon canopy is a bit weird. I didnt see any splash for green cards or engineered explosives. A silent clearing is way better. Yeah, oko is a huge problem. Which is why I'm playing murderous rider. There is a bit of an uptick in liliana, the last hope but not much.

    Veil of summer is a busted magic card. Many decks from miracles to storm are main decking it

    There is less true name nemesis running around but I still like liliana of the veil since I feel our deck is an attrition deck.
    I have been hidning from Legacy 1,5 years and I just join the tourment on a whim. Didn't have any silent clearing ready. Murderous rider to deal with Oko seems like a good idea. I was abel to beat down an Oko against infect with Mother and Bob.

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan View Post
    Can inform you all that Ganfar made it to the finals of a local relatively small tournament but mid-high stakes. Don't know the outcome of the finals but it was vs Depths and will be interesting to hear what Ganfar played [edit: oh, the list was above, but I wonder if there were any updates]. :) Congratulations by the way!
    Thanks Dan! Depths stompy me game 1 with Bob and played around my removel. And I didn't have any Plow on Game 2.

    It went better then expected. I got a Bye that lead me to 2-2 becasue I had meet others on 1-2(lol)
    Deadguy ale Primer: http://articles.mtgcardmarket.com/br...n-deadguy-ale/ (Jeff did it before me)

  17. #6197
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    One of the better 3 drops for this deck for a while.

    I think this should be main deck when there are lot of strom decks or dredge decks in the meta. Lifelink is nice for the lifeloss from Bob ;)

    Deadguy ale Primer: http://articles.mtgcardmarket.com/br...n-deadguy-ale/ (Jeff did it before me)

  18. #6198

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    I feel like we have to talk about this one. When you're ahead it seems like a card advantage blowout, and at parity I can't imagine it's much worse than Bobbing yourself three times. I'm not sure we need to care about how we get rid of it, seeing as paying life for cards is our jam. Seems really good with an active Vial, for those DeadGuy/Taxes builds.

    Or maybe I'm dead wrong, because if Night's Whisper hasn't been good enough, why would this be? Would love everyone's thoughts.


  19. #6199

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    I think those 2 cards are ok but dont quite fit in imho. The 3 mana slot is already clunky. Liliana of the veil, liliana the last hope, vindicate, lingering souls councils judgement etc. And I'm already trying 2 murderous rider as well.

    So basically I'm asking myself are the hound and treacherous blessing better than what I'm running at 3 mana? If anything im hoping they print something at 1 or 2 mana I could use.

    Lol, I miss deathrite so much. Being able to cast a 3 drop turn 2 is so good. I can still do that today with chrome mox but that hurts.

  20. #6200

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilkin View Post
    I think those 2 cards are ok but dont quite fit in imho. The 3 mana slot is already clunky. Liliana of the veil, liliana the last hope, vindicate, lingering souls councils judgement etc. And I'm already trying 2 murderous rider as well.

    So basically I'm asking myself are the hound and treacherous blessing better than what I'm running at 3 mana? If anything im hoping they print something at 1 or 2 mana I could use.

    Lol, I miss deathrite so much. Being able to cast a 3 drop turn 2 is so good. I can still do that today with chrome mox but that hurts.
    Well, the pooch turns off souls, so if one is played, its likely that the other is not. This is the main reason for not playing him, I think.

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