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Thread: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

  1. #6061

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    lol Maharis. But yeah it is fun to finally meet fellow posters. I didn't ask my opponent if he even knew what Dead Guy Ale is. Some people don't.

    Also ran into PirateKing. He was on Reanimator on the Thursday.

  2. #6062

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    What are all your thoughts on 2 Nihil Spellbombs over the Leyline of Sanctity and Rest in Peace?

    Granted, both of the latter are much stronger cards, but the Spellbombs cantrip, come down T1 guaranteed, and have decent interaction against non-GY combo decks like Grixis Control and Angler decks.

  3. #6063
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Anyone still on the Sinkhole plan? Given that decks are less low to the ground than they used to be, that means they are mana hungry. Attacking the resources seems viable to me. My concept brew is something like this:

    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar

    3 Thoughtseize
    3 Inquisition of Kozilek
    2 Hymn to Tourach

    4 Sinkhole
    2 Vindicate
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    3 Liliana of the Veil
    2 Liliana, Last Hope

    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Wasteland
    18 other lands

    Obviously Thalia1 is a bit of a non-bo with our high density of non-creatures. But if we lead with Sinkholes and Wastelands then follow up with a Thalia1 to derail the recovery, paying 2 for a Thoughtseize, 3 for a Hymn, or 4 for a Lili of the Veil seems less bad. Also, Sinkhole + Wasteland + Thalia1 plan makes Thalia2 enormous value. Thoughts?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
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  4. #6064

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirrislegend View Post
    Anyone still on the Sinkhole plan? Given that decks are less low to the ground than they used to be, that means they are mana hungry. Attacking the resources seems viable to me. My concept brew is something like this:

    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar

    3 Thoughtseize
    3 Inquisition of Kozilek
    2 Hymn to Tourach

    4 Sinkhole
    2 Vindicate
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    3 Liliana of the Veil
    2 Liliana, Last Hope

    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Wasteland
    18 other lands

    Obviously Thalia1 is a bit of a non-bo with our high density of non-creatures. But if we lead with Sinkholes and Wastelands then follow up with a Thalia1 to derail the recovery, paying 2 for a Thoughtseize, 3 for a Hymn, or 4 for a Lili of the Veil seems less bad. Also, Sinkhole + Wasteland + Thalia1 plan makes Thalia2 enormous value. Thoughts?
    I have wondered if this is viable myself. Give it a spin ad let us know what the strengths and weaknesses are, I'd love to know.

  5. #6065

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Hi all:
    Some recent results -

    Two 5 round leagues:
    League 1:
    4-1
    League 2:
    3-2

    Local 2.5K:
    4-2-1

    List feels like it's becoming very tuned but, just like Esper Stoneblade, you really need to know your lines to victory for every match. I've been regularly tweaking the sideboard to experiment with finding the most powerful, least expensive CMC and most versatile options.

    Here's where I am - the main deck hasn't changed at all really since I've built it:
    4 Dark Confidant
    3 Stoneforge Mystic
    1 Batterskull
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Palace Jailer
    3 Lingering Souls
    2 Remorseful Cleric
    =16

    3 Liliana of the Veil
    1 Liliana, the Last Hope
    1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
    =5

    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Cabal Therapy
    1 Inquisition of Kozilek
    3 Hymn To Tourach
    =9

    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Vindicate
    3 Chrome Mox
    =9

    Lands:
    4 Marsh Flats
    2 Polluted Delta
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Scrubland
    4 Wasteland
    3 Swamps
    1 Karakas
    1 Plains
    1 Mishra's Factory
    =21

    Sb:
    2 Pithing Needle
    1 Zealous Persecution
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Disenchant
    1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
    1 Containment Priest
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Rest in Peace
    1 Humility
    1 Diabolic Edict
    1 Chains of Mephistopheles

    Some notable matchups and lines that I took:
    Miracles:
    In multiple matchups versus Miracles, it came down how many Jace they drew, how stable their access to white mana was, how quickly they found Council's Judgment, how much early discard I had, and Entreat the Angels.
    My typical line has been to try and nab Jace as early as possible or throw out a Bob t1 off of Chrome Mox. I also have opted for casting Souls over other spells to try and make them use their resources answering the Souls so I can sneak in any Liliana's and/or Vindicate resolved Jace's.
    Post board, I bring in the obvious stuff - Needles, Gideon - but, allow me to advocate for Toxic Deluge as a prayer answer to Entreat and Surgical Extraction. Surgical on Jace is fairly back breaking even if it's card disadvantage. Snapcaster beats aren't a thing we need to worry about and we have removal for Mentor, so it becomes about dodging Entreat and avoiding getting business Spell countered or being 2 for 1d. This is much more winnable than one might think.

    A tricky scenario is when and if to flashback Lingering Souls to for the win. Hypothetically, you do the math and realize, if I flashback this turn I will win after attacking this turn and next turn. Terminus being what it is, you could always get blown out. Another reason to considering the card disadvantage of Surgical. An early discard on Terminus followed up by Lingering Souls and token generating walkers will be next to impossible for them to answer, except Engineered Explosives. If you were to draw a Needle, you could cast it on EE and make them search for a Disenchant and/or Council's Judgment prior to popping EE. If/when they have the turn where everything goes perfect for them and they eliminate all of your threats, you slip in another planeswalker or equipment and keep ticking up your token generating planeswalkers.



    Lands:

    A classically bad matchup, I haven't had much more success. Maze of Ith has been the most problematic card for me because, while Punishing Fire answers every creature we have, we can always slip in a couple of creatures and equip with SoFaI. So, my recommendation is to save your Wastelands for Maze's and Tabernacle. Sometimes you can save them for a Thespian Stage copying a Dark Depths, but a good Lands player will never really give you the opportunity to get max value and have it matter. More often than not, the wins from this matchup come from an average to below average Lands draw while we vomit our Lingering Souls and on a single turn a Stoneforge and Bob where they can only answer one. From there we need to damage race their card advantage engine and hope they get bad dredges. Timely Remorseful Clerics can help. Sideboard games are much better for us. I cut a lot of discard and some number of Liliana's. Pithing needle is great, Nihil Spellbomb is great, Surgical is great, Diabolic Edict is great, RIP and/or Leyline of the Void is great. Keep in Swords. Surgical Loam, PFire and Dark Depths. Sometimes Wasteland. Don't get blown out by a cycle land or a Crop Rotation for Grove.


    Sideboard choices:

    - Chains of Mephistopheles. 2 Mana and an enchantment. Very good versus Grixis for this reason. Pretty decent versus Miracles because their relevant hate will be stretched thin with the Planeswalkers and equipment we have. It's expensive in paper, so Alms Collector does a decent imitation but will be much easier to remove for most decks. It's a nonbo with SoFaI that I just accept. If you run Kaya, as well - you may want to consider your play lines and your keeps if you see both in hand.


    - Humility. I'm not thrilled with this card. Every time I've played it, it hasn't been as back breaking as I've wanted it to be. On the same token, against Eldrazi Stompy, Eldrazi Post, and 12 Post, I think we need cards like Humility to stand a fighting chance. Against Eldrazi Stompy, we are a huge underdog.
    Against 12 Post, I'd again recommend bringing in Surgical. I've come to this conclusion after several matches where my opponent plays a first turn Cloudpost, I've wastelanded them, and they proceed to run out Glimmerpost into Expedition Map. Without Cloudpost, the Thespian Stages and Vesuva's that 12 Post runs become much, much worse. Bring in Surgical, but be warned that they have outs - Crop Rotation the targeted Post or, after the fact, Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog.


    - Gideon. This effect is sort of already covered by Sorin, but in control matchups you'll occasionally have perfect draws where you get your Lingering Souls, Sorin and Gideon all into play. It's unlikely they'll be able to answer all of them and you'll probably win. My alternative was Kaya, but her weak ability to protect herself was frustrating.


    - 2 x Pithing Needles. I found that I needed this effect in too many situations to run just one. Versus Jace. Versus Thespian's Stage. Versus Wasteland (Lands), Versus Eye of Ugin, and so on. Sanctum Prelate SORT OF imitates this effect and can enhance the versatility of our sideboard, but the fact it's WW in its mana cost and costs 3 and dies to removal more easily makes it less ideal.


    - Nihil Spellbomb. I've been going back and forth on a few sideboard cards. Leyline of the Void is a great card in many matches that aren't purely graveyard-centric, but it's really only amazing when you have it in your opening hand. Nihil Spellbomb only gets cashed in once but it cantrips and comes down turn 1 on the draw off the top of your deck which is nice. It's also pretty great versus Miracles and Grixis Control.



    Main deck notes:

    - Chrome Mox. This card has been great. I've considered going down to 2 just because of how often I've drawn 2 in my opening hand. Regardless, the acceleration it provides is the only reason why this deck has been competitive for me versus a large swatch of decks. You get to play your first turn Bob or Stoneforge and play your interaction out on the following turn which has been essential. Too often with Esper Stoneblade, I get caught KNOWING my opponent has it if I cast a creature, so I continue to hold up counters or casting discard spells and never develop my board. Chrome Mox has solved this issue and we make up the card disadvantage fairly well.


    - Palace Jailer. I've very rarely hit a creature with this. It hasn't mattered. Drawing an extra card per turn (often two with Bob in play) has broken my opponent's backs many times. I've yet to lose the monarch in maybe a dozen instances of resolving Palace Jailer. If you suspect that Jailer will be bad, you often have the opportunity to imprint on Chrome Mox.


    - Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. I can't stress enough why this has been great. It TICKS UP to generate a LIFELINKING blocker the turn it comes into play. When it gets killer immediately, it's usually because the opponent both swing at it and bolts it. That's fine. We're winning the resource and tempo war in this case. The lifelink has been vital in a deck that often needs to catch up and runs Thoughtseize and Bob.


    - Remorseful Cleric. Looking back in the threat, it looks like Wilkin came up with this tech. I was dubious. I considered cards like Ravenous Rats (yes, really), Tidehollow Sculler and the link. But, I've loved how often the opponent tries to kill Cleric only to have us Exile their graveyard. That little effect comes into play against such a large swatch of the meta, it's great. And, the fact that it's a flier with 2 power makes it great versus Delver and great to sneak in some damage. It's a very sneakily well balance card for our deck.


    - Mishra's Factory, Karakas. One complaint about my build is that I've had to mulligan quite a lot. I've been trying to anecdotally "feel out" whether or not the Factory and/or Karakas are worth it. Certainly, I've felt some confirmation bias via the very memorable times where you are able to activate Factory vs a hellbent opponent, equip and swing in. Likewise, with Karakas, your Turbo Depths opponent will be displeased with you for running such a narrow card in the main deck. Maybe an extra Swamp and a Godless Shrine will reduce the probability of a mulligan significantly and therefore leave us with extra resources and more chances of grinding out our opponent, but I've found this hard to measure one way or the other.


    - Discard spells. I theorized that I needed to increase the number of discard spells to get our opponents hellbent as quickly as possible. With all of the blue in Legacy, our opponents hold the leg up of being able to smooth our draws and protect important spells. However, even if they protect the business spells, if we get them hellbent, we can resolve our best spells with impunity and if we think about the card that our opponents are drawing to, we can often use our advantage to prevent or minimize the effect of their cards. For example, against a hellbent Miracles opponent, we can wasteland and vindicate them off of two white sources so that Entreat is a dead card.


    Anyways, I know this was long-winded, but I feel very optimistic and I hope y'all have some thoughts.

  6. #6066

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    You could try a Shambling Vent over the Factory, although it would be really hard to activate the Vent and equip it.

    -I found the Cleric to be pretty decent. There are enough GY dependent decks where it really useful. And sometimes a 2/1 flyer is good enough threat.
    -Sorin is an interesting choice. Token is only a 1/1 and worried about Liliana, the Last Hope. However, Sorin does threaten killing Liliana with the ultimate.
    -never liked Chains. I only actually used it a little bit in the Treasure Cruise era and found it mediocre. I have Alms Collector and it been good when I resolve it. Cast it 5 times and won every time I did. Does suck that Ponder, Glimpse of Nature, Preordain etc. aren't effected but the payoff off a Brainstorm or Jace brainstorm is devastating.
    -instead of Spellbomb, you could run Relic of Progenitus. It worse vs a deck like Reanimator but it nice vs Grixis Control since as long as Relic is active, Angler isn't likely to land and Snapcaster is reduced in value. And if they try to destroy it, you can crack the relic.


    http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=28937&iddeck=239561

    Here is Bahra's take on deadguy. Interesting.

  7. #6067
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Sorin, Lord of Innistrad is the best 4 mana walker in this deck imo. No double white likelike Gideon so easier to cast, ticks upup to make its dude which is great and provides a threat against miracles where even if they answer the dude they can't play a Jace or you'll get to take it, and even the minus 2 is pretty sick with souls making both halves into very real threats.
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    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  8. #6068

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilkin View Post
    -I ran into Maharis and CptHaddock at Eternal. It's nice to put a face to the name. Although at first Maharis' first interaction for me....lol wasn't good for me. As I sit down to face another opponent, I introduce myself saying my name. Maharis who's beside me for another match, then blurts out "Wilkin, Dead guy Ale right? ". LOL, I grudgingly say yes.
    It was good meeting you at EW too dude. I think I saw another aler when I was walking around the side events.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKie-vgUGdI
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  9. #6069

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Hello All:

    I stumbled upon the results of a Mono Black Smallpox list from a more accomplished Japanese Pox player who regularly places well in larger events.

    In their sideboard plan they ran 4 Extirpate and 2 Surgical Ectraction.

    I am wondering if we would ever configure our sideboard in such a way. My theory is that in a heavy discard build, paired with the typical Wasteland, Vindicate, LOTV, we have plenty of avenues to hitting key pieces in any matchup or non basic lands.

    Thoughts?

  10. #6070
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    Mirrislegend's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss View Post
    Hello All:

    I stumbled upon the results of a Mono Black Smallpox list from a more accomplished Japanese Pox player who regularly places well in larger events.

    In their sideboard plan they ran 4 Extirpate and 2 Surgical Ectraction.

    I am wondering if we would ever configure our sideboard in such a way. My theory is that in a heavy discard build, paired with the typical Wasteland, Vindicate, LOTV, we have plenty of avenues to hitting key pieces in any matchup or non basic lands.

    Thoughts?
    Do you have any reason to run White besides Vindicate and maybe Swords to Plowshares? Seems like you're suggesting a sub-par Pox shell.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    <Dallieza> your mom uses the stack
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    Every time someone drops a Chalice against me I think of the Family Guy episode where the guy in jail stabs himself with the knife to see how it feels and then he says, "My God! Is this what I've been doing to people? I belong in here!"
    Referring to the art on Stasis:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    Well, uh...the mime, you see, is....um...

    God, is that furry bondage?

  11. #6071

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirrislegend View Post
    Do you have any reason to run White besides Vindicate and maybe Swords to Plowshares? Seems like you're suggesting a sub-par Pox shell.
    I think, perhaps, my question was unclear. Could we, as Deadguy ale, mimic the Surgical-effect heavy sideboard plan that this successful Monoblack Pox player/deck did? My theory is that we are heavy in broad resource denial, therefore we can snipe whichever problem cards our opponents have and/or occasionally steal wins by removing certain cards (volcs and trops vs rug delver as a generic example).

  12. #6072

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss View Post
    I think, perhaps, my question was unclear. Could we, as Deadguy ale, mimic the Surgical-effect heavy sideboard plan that this successful Monoblack Pox player/deck did? My theory is that we are heavy in broad resource denial, therefore we can snipe whichever problem cards our opponents have and/or occasionally steal wins by removing certain cards (volcs and trops vs rug delver as a generic example).
    Maybe this is a bad take but it feels like the format has gotten way too efficient to actually play cards like sinkhole anymore. I think the reason that the pox player who seems to top 8 every japanese event is playing that configuration is because pox is exceptionally weak to graveyard strategies and wanted a bit more flexibility against decks like all depths playing ones.

    You could probably get away with a BW smallpox deck, I know that people play that sometimes in modern and the deck actually looks kind of decent with some legacy upgrades i.e. vindicate.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  13. #6073
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    The card that could make Deadguy 'pox-like' is Collective Brutality. Finding synergistic ways to create card advantage with it (Lingering Souls, Bloodghast, Crucible of Worlds, etc.) seems powerful. I think the focus of Deadguy needs to be card advantage rather than tempo. There are several ways to do this, but I think at a minimum cards like Stoneforge Mystic, Lingering Souls, and Hymn to Tourach need to be included. The Chrome Mox plan just isn't feasible anymore, IMHO. It's better to just curve out and create 2-for-1's the same way that Grixis Control does. I'm 3 copies of Marsh Flats short of trying a new list, but it's definitely on my back burner. I really want to build around SFM, Souls, Collective Brutality, Hymn, Cabal Therapy, and Hidden Stockpile. It's definitely a wider strategy than usual for Deadguy, but that's why I think it's good. Tokens, especially Lingering Souls, are a fantastic form of pressure if you look at the current DTB.
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  14. #6074
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    The card that could make Deadguy 'pox-like' is Collective Brutality. Finding synergistic ways to create card advantage with it (Lingering Souls, Bloodghast, Crucible of Worlds, etc.) seems powerful. I think the focus of Deadguy needs to be card advantage rather than tempo. There are several ways to do this, but I think at a minimum cards like Stoneforge Mystic, Lingering Souls, and Hymn to Tourach need to be included. The Chrome Mox plan just isn't feasible anymore, IMHO. It's better to just curve out and create 2-for-1's the same way that Grixis Control does. I'm 3 copies of Marsh Flats short of trying a new list, but it's definitely on my back burner. I really want to build around SFM, Souls, Collective Brutality, Hymn, Cabal Therapy, and Hidden Stockpile. It's definitely a wider strategy than usual for Deadguy, but that's why I think it's good. Tokens, especially Lingering Souls, are a fantastic form of pressure if you look at the current DTB.
    Any hints? I'd be interested in testing something new this Christmas break.
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  15. #6075
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  16. #6076
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I've posted it before, but it has changed a little. Here is the rough draft
    After jamming weekend games I made the following changes:
    -2 Cabal Therapy
    -1 Lingering Souls
    -1 Verdant Catacombs

    +1 Liliana of the Veil
    +1 Liliana the Last Hope
    +1 Vindicate
    +1 Scrubland

    The list seemed overflowing with discard and suffered high quality ways to remove nonsense that did get resolved. My list before was 3 Vindicates, and after a few matches where a draw to Vindicate would have swung it to my favor, having just 1 copy and all the heart in the world just wasn't enough. Additionally almost immediately I felt the low number of Liliana's. Last Hope defines the games she's in, and I felt myself spending too much time posturing to keep her chugging along because I knew she was the only copy I had. Adding one of each makes it less painful to play one into a Force. Being able to posture with a planeswalker in play while continuing to pursue other avenues of attack is too game winning too often to ignore.
    And while Cabal Therapy plays nice with Bloodghast, it plays nicer with Collective Brutality and I never felt a game when I missed it. There were more than one games when Cabal Therapy was a dead draw.
    Then speaking of Bloodghast, having 5 fetchable lands off 9 fetchlands hurt. One game in particular was grinding down and I was only able to fetch out 2 landfall activation before I was out of lands and stuck crossing my fingers I would top deck a land. Had I been able to keep pressure for 1-2 turns more their Jace would have been dead and I wouldn't have drowned in card advantage. I'm also considering dropping the Urborg for another basic land, but so far in testing it hasn't come up often enough to notice.
    Also just on gut feeling I think Kaya, Ghost Assassin might do a better job than Sorin, Solemn Visitor.
    I'll write more once I get more reps in, but if you have feedback I'd love to discuss.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  17. #6077
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Awesome feedback! I haven't jammed this yet, it was all theoretical. Just a few initial thoughts:

    1) If Therapy isn't pulling its weight then I think Bloodghast has to be re-evaluated. How good was he at providing hits/value? I wanted more targets for equipment, and recurring threats that could provide fodder for Stockpile/Therapy.

    2) I don't know if I would ever go below 4x Souls, simply for a higher count of brutality card advantage opportunities.

    3) Kaya is a good call, I think definitely worth a slot over Sorin SV.

    4) How was Stockpile? Did you get any games where you were able to leverage it? That was the primary reason for having a high fetch count. I could also see the Urborg becoming a 3rd Swamp and the Factory/Vent becoming a 2nd plains.

    Other cards I was debating:
    Smuggler's Copter (allows Bloodghast to 'block', provide a flying threat, loots. This was my next choice after testing Stockpile)
    Tidehollow Sculler (one of my favorite cards, I always want to cram them in. Likely not good enough, but also likely not terrible. Another 2 drop hurts the curve.)
    Aven Mindcensor (to augment the Wasteland + Vindicate land destruction plan, it could be brutal.)
    Mother of Runes (more dorks to use with Therapy, ways to protect SFM and get the anemic threats through in combat.)
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  18. #6078
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Bloodghast was good, great to pitch to Collective Brutality. Equipment never really came up, there was always a K Command close by that ensured it wasn't relevant. But against a Jace they were fatesealing everything to the bottom because even a land would have brought back 2 hasty dudes to swing the game the other way. It brings back Pox-y lines of thinking that were very familiar. Spirit tokens did more of the Jitte holding anyways, didn't have a game when they mattered there. More putting insurmountable pressure on late game planeswalkers to turn the tide. Cabal Therapy was blind too often, and we're not combo, the list of cards we hate is loong. I tried to get the perfect value from Thoughtseize first then Therapy, or flashing back with Bloodghast right away, but it took too many resources for an underwhelming effect, they discarded 1 card and it took me 3 turns to get to that point.
    I don't think I had a game that saw Collective Brutality go for all 3 modes. They were either hellbent or had no creatures, so it was just the effect I wanted and a drain for 2 just because. Bloodghast did great there, and sometimes is was Lingering Souls, but it was also sometimes just a land or a Swords. Again, the value was nice when it came up, but feeling like your holding back so you can get that perfect 1-2-3 play didn't feel right. Plus just playing Lingering Souls before you flash it back seemed like the better play most of the time.
    Hidden Stockpile was spicy, but it definitely had some learning needed before. I missed a ton of "free" scrys off attacking my army into a few blockers. It played very well with Bloodghast, triggering a token and letting me scry and coming back the same turn was low cost but good quality. It let me stay ahead a few games since I could attack with a token, sacrifice it to trigger Hidden Stockpile and scry, then get an untapped token back. It was no Brainstorm, but I definitely dodged dead draws in a close game.

    I had Mother of Runes and Kitesail Freebooter in my last list, and it definitely played towards SFM getting equipment much more. I had Sword of Fire and Ice main and getting a flying creature was critical. The problem I had with that list and why I was eager to try something new is it got eaten alive by Grixis Control. K Command was back breaking and their Liliana the Last Hope ticked up without recourse and that was the game. This list leans better on resilient threats that are more disposable, you're better at throwing everything at them until something sticks, then protecting that until you win.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
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  19. #6079
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    My thought with Ghast/Souls working alongside Brutality was that I wanted to have lots of chances to escalate, not necessarily getting the 3 modes, but at least get a free drain out of the deal if nothing else. Brutality could control the small dudes, StP dealt with the big dudes, Vindicate/Lilianas dealt with everything else.

    My thinking on Therapy was that there would be plenty of ways to flash it back. Blind naming wasn't really the goal (although being able to nab something always feels good) but rather to have it be another way to sac dudes to trigger Stockpile, which lets you get scrys and tokens. With brutality doing a pseudo-Duress effect it seems pretty clear why having another couple targeted discards would be too many (Therapy.)
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  20. #6080
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    It did work really well, but it solved everything through discard, so once they landed a Jace or a Liliana the Last Hope I couldn't find an answer. I never found it difficult to trigger Hidden Stockpile, but they came up make 1/4 of the games we played. I feel like we need to find the balance between control and threats. Pox is really good at being a sorcery speed control deck, but I'm not looking to be Pox.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

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