Awesome list! What is the logic behind your 1cc discard?
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Hi, I'm playing a very similar list but I have main 3 abrupt decay and 3 Liliana.Originally Posted by Bahra
Hey I have posted in this thread before.
I am currently playing the following list:
In my experience Deathrite Shaman is just way better than Æther Vial in general and I've been beating most things consistently with the deck. I really am not sure on some of the numbers and the sideboard was an enlightened tutor board where I then cut enlightened tutor for more canonists.
I really like this deck and am considering getting the alpha duals for it in paper so I can play it, since I have most of the rest already. What do you guys think are weak match ups? I can't really tell
I'm very new to legacy and completed the deck just yesterday but I already love it.
You said you've done some streaming. Do you mind to link it?
Yes, you can win with a random 2/2 and distupt the oppoment. But hittnig with a only with 2/2 will give the oppoment
Time to draw something. This is dangerous when meeting combo. I have won the race against elves with a progenitus in play with a mirran with a jitte.
How do you feel about mother of runes? I drop her after Deathrite came and I haven't miss her since then. Personally I would like a creature that can attack then proect.
Have Cabal Thery been good to you when you played it?
Well I started with just 3 Cabal Therapy, but a friend of mine who has many years of experience with the deck didn't like it, and replaced 2 of them with Thoughtseizes and I like that change because it means you're gonna be 100% to hit something more often, but generally Cabal Therapy is a lot more powerful so I definitely wanted to play some number of them. I ended up with 1 (could've easily been 2) because then I am never flooded with discard where I have to guess, but at the same time I have the very powerful option of 1 mana discard that I can also flashback with Lingering souls (ideally) but also other creatures should it be necessary.
From playing D&T a lot which is somewhat similar to this deck, in that you have to guess what your opponent is holding a lot of the time and base your sequencing off of it, I have a good sense of what my opponent is up to and therefor Cabal Therapy is just a really powerful option.
I am not sure about dropping Mother of Runes, what do you play instead? I really like being able to go Mother of Runes into Dark Confidant or Stoneforge Mystic, that wins games. It's also great at protecting Ethersworn Canonist vs. decks like ANT and Omni.
Cabal Therapy has been really good for me (explain in further detail above).
Bahra, have you considered Vindicate over Council's Judgment? I feel like the cases where you want CJ (TNN, opposing Mom), you have other outs, while the ability to blow out your opponent's mana or nuke a problematic land like Grove or Tabernacle can make a huge difference.
Plus, foil Vindicate looks very nice. Mmmmmm...
-Matt
IMO, Decay > CJudgement or vindicate. Today, legacy is "bluer" than any time before...
I hear they got twisters miles wide in the Midwest.
If you're playing Decay, then you should just play Junk. But, if you want to play Mom, you're basically cutting Goyf for it. Not that this is a bad thing, just a different spin.
-Matt
Has anyone tried a deadguy list with mentor and top im curious to hear how that testing went. Using baharas list for reference you could shave in 3 tops out of bob deathrite and a sculler or hymn then try some 2/1 split back and forth in the souls spot. Its probably hurts the miracles match too much but im hunting for a shell for mentor/top that isnt miracles. Maybe I should just keep brewing it in nicfit...
In a deck where you can't protect from removal like, say, Miracles can, it seems more awkward, especially since you also have to run a set of Tops (give or take). Might be worth trying, though.
-Matt
Yea mother of runes plus discard was the draw to this shell for a potential home.
Edit: maybe something like this
4 mom
3 drs
3 bob
3 mystic
2 mentor
3 top
2 lingering souls
3 cabal therapy
3 stp
3 hymn
2 chrome mox
1 jitte
1 sofi
2 lilianna
1 councils judgment
1 decay
1 zp
4 wasteland
4 marshflats
3 verdant catacombs
2 windswept heath
3 scrubland
1 bayou
1 savannah
2 swamp
2 plains
In addition, with YP, TNN and delve creatures, Decay isn't great against Grixis, plus it's close to 100% dead vs. Omnitell (where at least CJ and Vindicate can give you something to do).
It's great at nailing Delver and Counterbalance, but while the latter is plenty popular, the former is actually on a bit of a downturn. There have been only 4 delver decks in the last two top SCG top 16s combined.
I don't think straight BW is the best place for Mentor, unless you try a really off-the-wall brew. Bahra's deck is good, but it has only 18 non-creature spells. Dropping Tops in there isn't going to give you the explosive turns you seek.
Meanwhile, if you go deeper into green, you can play Loam-Crime with your Mentor. You can play red and get access to more cheap spells like bolt that further your Mentor aggro plan. And of course you can play Esper and just cantrip 'em out.
I have considered, however, brewing with the Gitaxian Probe/Mishra's Bauble/Street Wraith engine I use in Modern Suicide Zoo to Legacy, and I think it would be interesting with Mentor. Something like this:
3 Monastery Mentor
3 Gurmag Angler
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Death's Shadow
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Street Wraith
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize/IoK
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Reanimate
20 lands (No Wasteland, but maybe a manland or sol land)
Basically you just try to churn through your deck, tearing up their hand in the process and winning fast with a Monk army or Delve beater. A Sorin could do a lot here because of the anthem effect (Also, Sorin tokens don't die to Dread of Night). We are not playing Bob because we are running a draw engine of (mostly) non-creature cards that eat up our life total. Don't forget there's always the make-your-own-delver super beating of Probe you, no force, cycle street wraith, reanimate it, pass with full hand (especially against another black deck!)
I think a more traditional DGA list benefits more from Myth Realized. Not dying to Terminus is a huge bonus for that card. But any of these Gro strategies really need 4 Probe 4 Therapy and at least 3 Souls to work so you can trigger them enough to be meaningful. (IMO)
3 Myth Realized
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
X Delve dudes (or not because Bob, but we can play Top)
4 Probe
4 Therapy
4 STP
3 Hymn
3 Souls
X Top
X more removal
X Wrath effects? (lol myth realized)
X Zealous Persecution
My list look like this:
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Hero of the Bladehold
SORCERIES (8)
4 Thoughtseize
1 Council’s Judgment
3 Lingering Souls
INSTANTS (8)
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Zealous Persecution
PLANESWALKERS (3)
2 Liliana of the Veil
ARTIFACTS (3)
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
LANDS (21)
4 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
4 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
3 Wasteland
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
SIDEBOARD (15)
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Zealous Persecution
3 Hyn To Tourach
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Duress
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Maelstrom Pulse
I have more bigger cretures and removel more then discard and monther of runes.
You can give Bahra's deck a shot. Seems solid to me.
After a few years of playing and commenting on this deck, I feel that there isn't one single variation that works. Just find what works for you. For me it's a little off the wall. Believe me, people in my area know what's coming when they face me and still puzzle as to why I play certain cards. Namely Shriekmaw, Hero of Bladehold and Chrome Mox. I still do very well.
Went 3-1 in a small legacy tournament. Surprisingly, no playoff. Meh. $20 turns into $70 credit. I'm fine with that, lol I'd probably agree to split anyway....
Beat Painter, Infect and UR Delver. Lost to UR Control. My infect opponent has never met me before and didn't know what I was playing. Which is refreshing since most people know what I'm on. But I did give him a big hint, I was wearing my Deadguy Ale T-shirt that day.
I will still remember the first day I wore that shirt....and played MUD to troll people. Turn 1 Chalice on 1. Turn 2 Metalworker cast with Cavern of Souls. Good times that day.
Here's hoping that Return to Zendikar gives us something to work with. I like Magic Origins from an interesting card standpoint and limited was really fun (of course when you open a Foil Liliana and get a Flashbag Marauder to spam with her it's easy to see why it was fun) but no Deadguy ale material.
Can confirm everything Wilkin says. The people who know him understand why he plays goofball cards like Shriekmaw and Chrome Mox: because Wilkin is a lucksack that draws his fun-ofs.
♀
I don't say this deck is bad, he have won matches with it. I give feedback and have discusstion about the deck. My deck probabally works fine with me and Bahra deck. I have all the cards Bahra have in the deck so I maybe try it out someday. :)
I don't say this deck is bad, he have won matches with it. I give feedback and have discusstion about the deck. My deck probabally works fine with me and Bahra deck. I have all the cards Bahra have in the deck so I maybe try it out someday. :)
I'm currently trying out chrome mox and hero of bladehold. Not because they're I think they're great but because if you want to know a deck really well, you also need to try a ton of different versions of it.
There's a lot of upside to playing chrome mox, but I'm afraid it makes the fair match ups worse. I am more worried about miracles and delver than I am worried about combo. I lose so rarely to combo already with this much hate and discard that I think it's not a wise move to include chrome mox. Although chrome mox is a lot of fun, I must admit.
After 4-0'ing back to back with my own build (the last one I posted), I am now trying out 2 chrome mox and 2 hero of bladehold in place of a basic swamp, a lingering souls, and the 2 Council's Judgement which haven't been amazing for me so far. I've played 1 daily with the chrome mox build and went 3-1 losing to BUG Delver but I probably shouldn't have kept a 1 lander on the draw but this is what happened: He plays turn 1 delver, I play turn 1 Deathrite Shaman, he flips the delver with Disfigure and disfigure my deathrite shaman and wastelands me. I don't draw a land for any of my draw steps and I lose. Pretty brutal but it happens. And that was game 1 btw, so he had main deck disfigure.
Anyway, I'm trying out the chrome mox build again in a daily in 2½ hours from this post. Tune in at http://www.twitch.tv/bahra_ thank you!
CJ is a good card, Marc, but I find that it's not ever something I REALLY want. TNN is handled generally by discard, or by ZP, or by SOFI. Most of those decks can't actually remove a SOFI game 1, and it generally means you can race TNN unless they slap multiples down really fast. I agree with Chrome Mox - it allows explosive starts, but at the cost of being worse in the fair matchups. I never tried Hero, but I always hear good things. Another possibility if you're running that high on the curve are either Sorin or Elspeth. Provides tokens or fat, or both, just like Hero.I'm currently trying out chrome mox and hero of bladehold. Not because they're I think they're great but because if you want to know a deck really well, you also need to try a ton of different versions of it.
There's a lot of upside to playing chrome mox, but I'm afraid it makes the fair match ups worse. I am more worried about miracles and delver than I am worried about combo. I lose so rarely to combo already with this much hate and discard that I think it's not a wise move to include chrome mox. Although chrome mox is a lot of fun, I must admit.
After 4-0'ing back to back with my own build (the last one I posted), I am now trying out 2 chrome mox and 2 hero of bladehold in place of a basic swamp, a lingering souls, and the 2 Council's Judgement which haven't been amazing for me so far. I've played 1 daily with the chrome mox build and went 3-1 losing to BUG Delver but I probably shouldn't have kept a 1 lander on the draw but this is what happened: He plays turn 1 delver, I play turn 1 Deathrite Shaman, he flips the delver with Disfigure and disfigure my deathrite shaman and wastelands me. I don't draw a land for any of my draw steps and I lose. Pretty brutal but it happens. And that was game 1 btw, so he had main deck disfigure.
Anyway, I'm trying out the chrome mox build again in a daily in 2½ hours from this post. Tune in at http://www.twitch.tv/bahra_ thank you!
-Matt
Is 24 lands + mox diamond not an option for explosive starts?
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
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