you guys are probably right. Serenity is a great card and is probably a better choice, but I was just trying to find a permanent answer to stax's permanents that can also attack for 2 damage a turn as well. Kataki's another choice, but it's not pinpoint artifact destruction and a stax player will just pay the 1 mana to keep their most important artifact.
Yeah I liked Kataki for a while. The only reason I decided not to put it in the final build is its not cumulative, meaning if you get stuck with more than one in hand and draw another you can't cast the other. Thing about Serenity is it clears stax's board...or will next turn *unless they disenchant some how*.
Last edited by BoardinCharlie; 06-02-2006 at 11:20 AM.
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Played in a 1.5 tourney this past weekend, here is my report:
Decklist-
4x Nantuko Shade
4x Hypnotic Specter
4x Withered Wretch
4x Dark Confidant
4x Duress
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Sinkhole
4x Vindicate
3x Swords to Plowshares
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Wasteland
4x Scrubland
1x Tainted field
8x Swamp
SB:
4x Engineered Plauge
3x Perish
3x Pithing Needle
2x Disenchant
2x Cabal Therapy
1x Swords to Plowshares
Round 1 vs. Rock Variant
Game 1-
Start off with a ritual, duress hitting a deed, confidant...he throws out a birds. I continue to hit his mana knowing his hand has 3/4 drops...then lay down the hippie and beat him down.
Game 2- sided out duresses, added needles (should've brought in perishes)
He starts off with a duress hitting my duress. I ritual out a hippie. He casts wall of blossoms. I hymn him hitting a balloth and a land. He plays a therapy naming vindicate with me revealing 2x shades and a vindicate. sacs the wall there go my shades. I keep top decking discard...then he keeps getting mana and Yavimaya Elders....therapies, genesis...sac genesis.. I have no hand he has genesis with balloths, witnesses, trolls, I get dominated.
Game3 - sided out swords for perishes
Duress a living wish, he birds, I hymn hitting balloth troll *wahoo*. Plays a deed. I play a hippie, hoping he deeds next turn. He does, then I cast a confidant...he goes into top deck mode... I hit 2 perishes to keep the trolls at bay...GG
Round 2 vs. Springtide (1-0)
Game 1-
Not knowing what I'm up against, keep an awful hand of Swamp, Waste, Shade, Hippie, Hymn, Swords....I top deck a waste, then a hippie, then, a shade..He combos out turn 5 or 6.
Game 2 - -2 STP, +2 Therapy
Turn one ritual duress, hymn...turn two confidant. Next turns throwing out one or business spells, he can't recover.
Game 3 - No board
Turn one duress away high tide, turn two hymn, turn three hippie, therapy hitting multiple ideas unbound. He scoops.
Round 3 vs. Rifter (2-0)
Game 1-
Turn one duress away slice n dice, turn two hymn hitting, turn three ritual vindicate, sinkhole. He get stuck on no red, and keeps top decking 4+ casting spells.
Game 2- -3 STP, +2 Disenchant, +1 Therapy
Turn one Ritual hippie, gets swords. Confidant turn two, ritual hymn, vindicate turn three. Keep hitting land disruption with Confidant, keep him at 3 mana with no red. Hippie comes down, GG.
Round 4 vs. Mirror (using scrolls over, Wretches and more land)
Game one
I'm first, I play ritual hippie, he plays double ritual shade, hippie...not sure if thats the right play. We trade hippies, I swords his shade. Play my shade hope he uses removal on it...he vindicates, then I play bob...it stays in play for a few turns, I win.
Game 2- Had brain fart..sided out Wretches for needles, extra STP *mistake*
We go back and fourth first 3 turns...nothing big, get into near topdeck mode...he hits a scroll, I never find a needle... I die.
Game 3- side out sinkholes for the wretches
I get turn one ritual duress confidant *he has no removal in hand*..it sits for 2 turns, diruption plus creature every turn thereafter...he topdecks discard and 3cc spells while at 2 land. I easily blow over game 3.
Final result 4-0 get first
I have no problems with the mainboard decklist as is, the sideboard though...therapy was stronger than I thought...just cause of the fact it hides in grave. Not sure if I like it more than Verdict, but I seem to be having problems staying on white against the mirror/other aggro decks. Disenchants are not that hot. As for the rest of the board...very happy with it. With the mainboard swords I have found that many of your bad aggro matchups aren't too bad, and grow is that much easier to beat. I need to find a beater that can be tossed in for wretches when its a dead card, I'm thinking Black Knight, but not to sure on it. It seems to smash the mirror *can't be swords or vindicated, and first strike owns*.
HA! 'sup Boardin Charlie?
To be fair, game one of round 4 I had nothing better than Hyppie/Shade. I didn't have Hymn or Bob. I could have paris'd but it didn't seem bad enough to ditch. I should have held the Vindicate longer since Bob wins mirrors.
It probably didn't help that I was playing an older version of the deck. :p
Shade wins mirrors just as well, and usually faster. Especially if its going to be swinging for 5+ damage. Its the only fast clock in the deck and I would personally have no problem removing it unless I knew something better was immediately on its way.Originally Posted by Vardaman
Shade isn't as hot as you think...most people will side in the needles to stop shade pumps. Yeah its nice, but in the early game they have to focus all their time disrupting you to make it an even playing field.
@ Vardaman: I think you did all you could with what you were given, that game one I kind of drew the threats I needed, the only thing that gave me an oomph is knowing your deck has a slightly higher curve then mine, so keeping you at 2 mana is pretty nice. This will show you now that the version with Wretches is just better I feel.
Last edited by BoardinCharlie; 06-15-2006 at 08:30 AM.
![f|i[p]'s Avatar](image.php?s=4853c0b117148b6a467f5bcc58dcf266&u=1207&dateline=1151478899 "f|i[p]'s Avatar")
I was wondering how would homebrew do against this kind of meta.
1st Counter Sliver
2nd Solidarity
3rd Landstill Control
4th Solidarity
5th Sligh
6th Iggy -pop
7th Sui Black
8th Sui Black
With my experience with the deck now I think you would be fine going into a metagame like that. You have multiple good matchups i my opinion including landstill, iggy-pop, solidarity, and counter sliver.
Some might say that sui-black is a bad matchup for you because they have bigger creatures, but with swords/vindicate I think that you have a better game against them than most. Everything else you match them on and possibly side into needles for their cursed scrolls if they run them.
The Sligh match up is definately a harder one. I have recently noticed an increase of burn/mono red in my metagame so instead of the disenchants I have added 3 warmth in the board. I'm up in the air to see whats better, warmth or COP...it just seems that COP makes you save mana which is hard when you are trying to put as much pressure on them as possible with disruption and saving shades.
Do you think the B/r variant that posted well both days at SCG duel for duals is a natural progression from Deadguy ale and shoudl be included in our discussion? Also, if that is the case, what is better the red or white (kinda the theme question of legacy)?
I placed in the top8 with it on Day 2. It is not a natural progression of Deadguy Ale. The deck is more of a progression of the Suicide Black deck I played at the last Duel for Duals and similar to the discussion here - http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showt...=Suicide+Black
When I get a chance I should be writing something up about it. PowerGamer1003 placed in the top4 on Day 1 with the same list. I believe he might be writing a tournament report as well.
I know this is a somewhat silly question,
but would the new Jotun grunt from coldsnap be a card to consider... a 4/4 beater for 2 mana (although white) which fits this decks mana curve... although you are actually returning the cards you destroy or discard. Since he gets to return your own discards and sinkholes wastelands,dark rituals, and he's a very good beater. I just thought about it since there was discussion that this deck needs a good beater... Just a thought though...
Last edited by f|i[p]; 07-11-2006 at 02:59 AM.
Has it ever been a consideration to splash another color, or would that weaken the plan of Deadguy Ale too much? I would think blue to play meddling mage as it adds to the plan of flexible cards, and this deck makes any counter spell like mana leak or even force spike a whole lot better. I really don't know if this is a good idea or if it is, if blue is the correct color, but it seems as though some of the DTB discussions stagnate and i though this might inspire some conversation at the very least.
@ Brightstroke: If you are running into problems against control I really think you are not playing the deck to its potential. This deck completely wrecks control, if you know your opponent is playing counterspells such as leak or force spike simply play around them or bait into the counters with your less eficient spells.
As for adding blue to the deck. You are proposing to beat a control deck by making your deck more control, which in my mind seems counter productive. Taking away from the decks consistancy making its worst match ups even worse to aid a match up which is in your favor already. I know if I 'm heading to a metagame which is facing a lot of control I up the count of gerards verdicts the board and possibly make some room for some negators if its U/W *landstill* or U/B *psychatog variant*.
@Flip: I have done very little playtesting with the Grunt, but what I have found in all the matchups you need to shrink the grave Wretch is a lot better since it is targetted and you can choose the number you remove pending enough mana. Also if your arguement is to add against aggro...the grave doesn't fill up fast enough to make use out of it for more than 3 turns. In all my experience if you are going into a metagame where you want more beaters or to slow the beats....try spectral Lynx or go with the negator against non red.
Sorry if my post didn't make sense, but i wasn't saying that i lost to force spike and the like i was saying they might be good cards to add. Likewise meddling mage might be good in the deck if it went in that direction, because it is a flexible card and can fit with different strategies fo denial. Even stifle could be a very functional added card. I don't think my problem is with control but i think adding these another color might make this deck more potent.
Cards that i would consider adding, with a blue splash would be:
-Meddling mage: always good against something.
-Stifle: adds to the mana denial plan (fetch lands) and has other uses like protecting our own lands from waste.
Further, i think jotun grunt is a fine card especially with a lot of thresh around as it contends with all but there biggest creature, and breaks there threshold.
It's not really the aggro I'm concerned about, but the clock, I have read quite a few threads boasting that they can beat deadguy ale just because it has a very slow clock. My primary thought for adding it was just to boost the clock and keep the cc at 2.. As for the graveyard hate,I wouldnt know if it would help, since you do use you cards quicky early game to disrupt your opponent(dark ritual, duress, hymn, sinkhole,wasteland) and could return your own cards to your library instead. It may be a good card to at least put into consideration. The graveyard hate is just a plus. But I havent really tested it, im still on the process of finishing the deck thus I have not tested it yet..
Last edited by f|i[p]; 07-14-2006 at 03:18 AM.
Hey guys, what do you think about adding Red for Burning Wish?
My current Sideboard plan include Vindicate, Cranial Extraction, Morning Tide, Cabal Therapy, Pyroclasm, Wrath of God, Chain Lightning, Chainer's Edict, Shattering Spree. From my tests, it works much better than 4 Vindicates.
Also, I find the control matchups tough--Stax and Stasis, from my tests.
Other 6 places are for 2 Stp(2 in main), 4 Disenchant. I wanna fix some place for Phyrexian Negator.
On the Sep 2011 Ban List Updates,
Red could also give you some reach to speed the clock up. Adding in Char? Or maybe just going with like Lightning Bolt or something might help the clock by a turn.
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Last edited by Nightmare; 07-14-2006 at 11:16 AM.
I have not read through the threads, but I guess Deadguy Ale is kinda control deck.
1. Stp is better than Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, or something like Mogg Ffanatic, Char.
2. As to mass removal, Burning Wish can just find spells you do not want to run main.
3. It is a Black-centered Deck, too many nonblack cards just spoil Hymn, Sinkhole, Hippy and Shade, and that weakens the deck. If there is something to cut, it is Gerrard's Verdict; but I will add 2 STP, not Bolts.
Last edited by Nightmare; 07-14-2006 at 11:05 AM.
On the Sep 2011 Ban List Updates,
There are usually already 3 STP main from most builds I have seen, but ok. Again I am just trying to see if there is another direction this deck could go that would suppport the ideas presented but lead to some innovation.
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Last edited by Nightmare; 07-14-2006 at 11:17 AM.
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