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Thread: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

  1. #4081

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by hibachi777 View Post
    Hey, I'm fairly new to legacy and this deck. I put together a list that is B/W/G, I was hoping for any maindeck advice and what kind of cards I should be running in my sideboard. I decided to splash green to play Abrupt Decay, Goyf, and to take full advantage of DRS. I know traditional Deadguy Ale is just B/W but my list seems to play most of the same cards and I'm not sure what other archetype I'd be. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

    Land: 22

    3x Bayou
    1x Forest
    1x Karakas
    4x Marsh Flats
    1x Savannah
    3x Scrubland
    1x Swamp
    4x Verdant Catacombs
    3x Wasteland
    1x Windswept Heath

    Creatures: 15

    4x Deathrite Shaman
    4x Dark Confidant
    4x Tarmogoyf
    3x Stoneforge Mystic

    Planeswalkers: 3

    3x Liliana of the Veil

    Spells: 16

    4x Swords to Plowshares
    3x Abrupt Decay
    1x Vindicate
    3x Thoughtseize
    3x Inquisition of Kozilek
    2x Bitterblossom

    Artifacts: 4

    1x Batterskull
    1x Umezawa's Jitte
    1x Sword of Fire and Ice
    1x Sensei's Divining Top


    Bitterblossoms are clunky. They can win matches but I have lost more matches because of BB then I have lost because of, say, Dark Confidant. They have no impact on the Board until Turn 3 and cannot attack until Turn 4 unless you find a way to cheat them in Turn 1.
    The one-off Top seems random. IŽd replace it with a fourth mystic. Four mystics and three equippments seems about right.
    lastly IŽd replace the Savannah with a Plains. But that might be personal preference. I play in a Blood Moon Meta.

  2. #4082

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Valech View Post
    Bitterblossoms are clunky. They can win matches but I have lost more matches because of BB then I have lost because of, say, Dark Confidant. They have no impact on the Board until Turn 3 and cannot attack until Turn 4 unless you find a way to cheat them in Turn 1.
    The one-off Top seems random. IŽd replace it with a fourth mystic. Four mystics and three equippments seems about right.
    lastly IŽd replace the Savannah with a Plains. But that might be personal preference. I play in a Blood Moon Meta.
    Yeah, I can see how BB can be a slower card, but I like how it can help overwhelm opponents in the more grindy matchups since enchantments are so hard to remove. I'm hoping with the green splash that DRS can gain me some life back if I ever get too low (or just Abrupt Decay my own BB I guess). Plus if it ever dies it has great synergy with Goyf.

    My thought with Top is that since this deck doesn't have anything like Brainstorm, Top would be good at helping manipulate draws and get the cards you really want, kinda like how Jund usually runs a misers Sylvan Library. Plus top plays nice with Bob. I can see how a 4th SFM might just be better though since it's such a crucial card. I was debating running either 3 SFM and 4 Goyf of 4 SFM and 3 Goyf, but I figured since I have the 4 Goyfs, I'd like to get as much value out of them as possible (also play Junk in Modern, haha).

  3. #4083
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    A new card is spoiled for us Spirit of the Labyrinth! Makes it even harder to recover from discard and it punishing brainstorm and jace.

  4. #4084
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    Deadguy Ale? U gone pale

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizso View Post
    A new card is spoiled for us Spirit of the Labyrinth! Makes it even harder to recover from discard and it punishing brainstorm and jace.
    In other news, the price of Dark Confidant jumps up even more. Nice how we don't "draw" that card.


    //14 creatures:
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    2 Mirran Crusader

    //17 spells:
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Thoughtseize
    3 Inquisition of Kozilek
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    3 Vindicate

    //4 Planeswalker:
    4 Liliana of the Veil

    //5 artifacts:
    Sword of Fire and Ice
    Umezawa's Jitte
    Batterskull
    2 Sensei's Divining Top

    //20 lands:
    4 Wasteland
    4 Scrubland
    4 Marsh Flats
    1 Arid Mesa
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Plains
    2 Swamp
    1 Karakas

    //Sideboard:
    4 Rest in Peace
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    1 Vindicate
    3 Phyrexian Revoker
    2 Perish
    2 Meekstone


    Are Meekstone-type effects the best answer for TNN? Nausea effects probably work against us?

  5. #4085

    Re: Deadguy Ale? U gone pale

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    In other news, the price of Dark Confidant jumps up even more. Nice how we don't "draw" that card.


    //14 creatures:
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    2 Mirran Crusader

    //17 spells:
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Thoughtseize
    3 Inquisition of Kozilek
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    3 Vindicate

    //4 Planeswalker:
    4 Liliana of the Veil

    //5 artifacts:
    Sword of Fire and Ice
    Umezawa's Jitte
    Batterskull
    2 Sensei's Divining Top

    //20 lands:
    4 Wasteland
    4 Scrubland
    4 Marsh Flats
    1 Arid Mesa
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Plains
    2 Swamp
    1 Karakas

    //Sideboard:
    4 Rest in Peace
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    1 Vindicate
    3 Phyrexian Revoker
    2 Perish
    2 Meekstone


    Are Meekstone-type effects the best answer for TNN? Nausea effects probably work against us?
    Zealous Persecution works fine against TNN. If you want some more, then Diabolic Edict.

    4 Spirit of the Labyrinth is way too many. Same thing with 4 Lilianas and 3 Vindicates. That list seems super top heavy.

    I wouldn't run more than 2 spirits of the labyrinth in the main. 2 of them are not that amazing, and though they do have 3 power, they're too fragile.

    I'd also be careful about including too many x/1s, since all the TNN hate is going to hit you incidentally.

    Why no Deathrite Shaman?

  6. #4086

    Re: Deadguy Ale? U gone pale

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    In other news, the price of Dark Confidant jumps up even more. Nice how we don't "draw" that card.
    Are you kidding me? I read that card and went from "yay" to "meh" since I thought weŽd be crippled as well. Now I am actually rather joyous. Great news.

    Also, for those playing mirran crusader, what do you guys think of Brimaz, King of Orekos as a one-off replacement? Might be nice to have a creature saveable via Karakas.

  7. #4087

    Re: Deadguy Ale? U gone pale

    Quote Originally Posted by FortyThree View Post
    Zealous Persecution works fine against TNN. If you want some more, then Diabolic Edict.

    4 Spirit of the Labyrinth is way too many. Same thing with 4 Lilianas and 3 Vindicates. That list seems super top heavy.

    I wouldn't run more than 2 spirits of the labyrinth in the main. 2 of them are not that amazing, and though they do have 3 power, they're too fragile.

    I'd also be careful about including too many x/1s, since all the TNN hate is going to hit you incidentally.

    Why no Deathrite Shaman?
    What is the right number of Zealous Persecution MD for you? I run 3 and never regret to draw one (they even counter G-charm in some spots).
    I will start testing with 3 spirit MD, pretty sure to settle with 2 spirit and 4 thalia rather then 3-3/4-4/3-4, we have 4 SFM and bob after all.
    Btw 3 Bob is an heresy?

    - L

  8. #4088
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    Re: Deadguy Ale? U gone pale

    Quote Originally Posted by Valech View Post
    Are you kidding me? I read that card and went from "yay" to "meh" since I thought weŽd be crippled as well. Now I am actually rather joyous. Great news.

    Also, for those playing mirran crusader, what do you guys think of Brimaz, King of Orekos as a one-off replacement? Might be nice to have a creature saveable via Karakas.
    He is indeed interesting. Might be interesting to play with Hero of Bladehold / sorin. Brimaz does have a quite fast clock. Diffrent swords might be in use for hhim want to get him as unblockable as possible. He is a legend and that enables playing Shizo, Death's Storehouse.

  9. #4089

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    This sunday I'll bring this list to gpt paris:

    CREATURES (11)
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Dark Confidant
    3 Deathrite Shaman
    ENCHANTMENTS (2)
    2 Bitterblossom
    SORCERIES (8)
    2 Hymn to Tourach
    2 Lingering Souls
    2 Thoughtseize
    2 Inquisition of Kozilek
    INSTANTS (9)
    1 Zealous Persecution
    4 Abrupt Decay
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    PLANESWALKERS (3)
    3 Liliana of the Veil
    ARTIFACTS (5)
    1 Batterskull
    1 Umezawa’s Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    2 Sensei’s Divining Top
    LANDS (22)
    2 Swamp
    1 Forest
    1 Plains
    1 Karakas
    1 Savannah
    2 Scrubland
    1 Windswept Heath
    2 Bayou
    3 Wasteland
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Marsh Flats
    SIDEBOARD
    3 Surgical Extraction
    1 Rest in Peace
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    3 Duress
    2 Zealous Persecution
    2 Oblivion Ring
    2 Pithing Needle

    Reason I'm playing 2/2 split thoughtseize/inquisiton is im bit afraid of the life loss since im already running 4 bob and 2 bitterblossom.

    2 Hymn only, I'm not quite sure if it's worth it. It can be a REALLY powerful card, and generally you want to run a full set of hymn if you're playing them. But yea, not sure what to cut.

    Reason I'm not running any goyfs or KotR is becuase those builds get dry very quick against heavy removal decks (like Miracles).

    Maybe need a 4th Liliana. Probably do

    1 Zealous Persecution MD becuase I suspect there's gonna be loads of true name nemesis decks

    Will do some more testing tomorrow

    Any thoughts are appreciated

  10. #4090
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Recommend playing some Orzhov Pontif as well it cant be spell snared or spell pierced.

  11. #4091

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by litenkatt View Post
    This sunday I'll bring this list to gpt paris:

    CREATURES (11)
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Dark Confidant
    3 Deathrite Shaman
    ENCHANTMENTS (2)
    2 Bitterblossom
    SORCERIES (8)
    2 Hymn to Tourach
    2 Lingering Souls
    2 Thoughtseize
    2 Inquisition of Kozilek
    INSTANTS (9)
    1 Zealous Persecution
    4 Abrupt Decay
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    PLANESWALKERS (3)
    3 Liliana of the Veil
    ARTIFACTS (5)
    1 Batterskull
    1 Umezawa’s Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    2 Sensei’s Divining Top
    LANDS (22)
    2 Swamp
    1 Forest
    1 Plains
    1 Karakas
    1 Savannah
    2 Scrubland
    1 Windswept Heath
    2 Bayou
    3 Wasteland
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Marsh Flats
    SIDEBOARD
    3 Surgical Extraction
    1 Rest in Peace
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    3 Duress
    2 Zealous Persecution
    2 Oblivion Ring
    2 Pithing Needle

    Reason I'm playing 2/2 split thoughtseize/inquisiton is im bit afraid of the life loss since im already running 4 bob and 2 bitterblossom.

    2 Hymn only, I'm not quite sure if it's worth it. It can be a REALLY powerful card, and generally you want to run a full set of hymn if you're playing them. But yea, not sure what to cut.

    Reason I'm not running any goyfs or KotR is becuase those builds get dry very quick against heavy removal decks (like Miracles).

    Maybe need a 4th Liliana. Probably do

    1 Zealous Persecution MD becuase I suspect there's gonna be loads of true name nemesis decks

    Will do some more testing tomorrow

    Any thoughts are appreciated
    I would cut at least 1 bitterblossom for a Lingering Souls. And since you are very token based, I'd consider running Cabal Therapies somewhere in the 75. And would try to make it 4 wastelands somehow. Other than that, seems good to me.

    As far as Hymn is concerned. Do you think the meta is more combo or more fair? If it's more combo, perhaps take out the 2 hymns for 2 Therapies.

    You can go with 4 lilianas. She's only bad in 2 matchups...dredge obviously and in games 2 and 3 vs Death and Taxes (they all seem to run Wilt-Leaf Liege).

  12. #4092
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Went 4-0, ID, ID to end up 3rd out of 50 at our recent TCGPlayer Bronze event. (shitty) Report here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...th-Black-Taxes

    Still not sure if this deck belongs here or with D&T, so I'm posting in both threads to see what everyone else thinks.
    I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel

    "Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."

  13. #4093

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    I am really sad, that the vial version of this deck seems to get the better of it. Thou I donŽt hate the vial version I always loved the slightly slower mid range version with a few more controle elements :/ Guess it has a reason why this was called BW Tempo a while ago.

    Oh, Cheese, donŽt call the deck Black and Taxes, call it Obama Care if you happen to start a thread. That name made me giggle.

  14. #4094
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    +1 on obama care lol
    ArtStation: Dgreco current work
    Playing Junk NicFit
    Daveg3d on MODO

  15. #4095
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    What is a good starting list for this deck? Are there green splashes or would it at that point be considered "Junk"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  16. #4096

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    What is a good starting list for this deck? Are there green splashes or would it at that point be considered "Junk"?
    Obama Care. lol. Oh man.

    Anywho. For me personally, I only splash green for Deathrite Shaman. Some splash for Abrupt Decay....some for that stuff and Goyf. Don't know for sure where the line is drawn where it's Deadguy or Junk. It's subjective. I only go for Deathrite because I hate opposing wastelands and Submerge. I like to minimize as much impact that has.

    As for a good starting list. Hmmm..... Hooglund (sp), sorry for spelling has gone to top 8 SCG with deadguy. An interesting list though, Hero of Bladehold and Mirran Crusader....no wastelands. My list is on here too. 45th at GP Washington. Again, not conventional as I think I'm the only Deadguy player who Maindecks Shriekmaw. Lol, I'm guessing I'm probably the only player who made day 2 with 2 Hero of Bladehold and 2 Shriekmaw main.

    Not sure if our lists are a good starting point or not since our builds differ a fair bit from the consensus builds I've seen here......

    However, here's what we can agree on......

    Deathrite Shaman
    Dark Confidant
    Stoneforge Mystic
    3 equipment most likely Fire and Ice, jitte and Batterskull
    4-6 1 mana discard (varies depending on if you play tokens)
    3-4 Liliana of the Veil
    4 Swords to plowshares
    3-4 Lingering Souls
    4 wasteland


    But personally preferences obviously varies. I love Hero of Bladehold. Vindicate is my catch all removal of choice. Some people prefer Abrupt Decay over it. I'm a huge fan of Shriekmaw but I'm the only one. Used to run Bitterblossom but Lingering Souls took that spot in part due to me hating dying to my own Bitterblossom so much.

  17. #4097
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    What is a good starting list for this deck? Are there green splashes or would it at that point be considered "Junk"?
    I don't think there's been a real identity for Deadguy in a while, so it's hard to say. Personally I'm biased towards my list posted above, which really leans towards D&T as far as build/playstyle goes, but I think it keeps the soul of the deck intact: BW disruption and mana denial with efficient beaters and card advantage from Bob. Thalia and Port are just a better mana denial package than Sinkhole and Vindicate these days.

    There have also been some promising-looking tokens versions, although I'd be wary of running them in the "kill TNN at all costs" meta. There was also Caleb Durward's version with DRS and Decay, which is probably still decent.
    I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel

    "Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."

  18. #4098

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I don't think there's been a real identity for Deadguy in a while, so it's hard to say. Personally I'm biased towards my list posted above, which really leans towards D&T as far as build/playstyle goes, but I think it keeps the soul of the deck intact: BW disruption and mana denial with efficient beaters and card advantage from Bob. Thalia and Port are just a better mana denial package than Sinkhole and Vindicate these days.

    There have also been some promising-looking tokens versions, although I'd be wary of running them in the "kill TNN at all costs" meta. There was also Caleb Durward's version with DRS and Decay, which is probably still decent.
    And you list is a bit of a hybrid as well. Some people have lists that are Deadguy and Junk. Yours is Deadguy and Death and Taxes. I guess playstyle, what you are comfortable with and the meta you are in factor in.

    And I must say I like The Deadguy/DnT hybrid a lot. IMHO, I like it more than traditional Death and Taxes. You can be proactive with 1 mana discard and Bob gives card advantage that nothing in white can give you.

  19. #4099
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    I feel like library and decay are just really powerful. Maybe I'm wrong as I haven't played the deck, but it SEEMS good
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  20. #4100
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    I for one will try out both Spirit of the Labyrinth and Brimaz. Brimaz is actually a card I have been waiting for. A strong legend, that is a great equipment carry. Combining it with Eiganjo Castle and Shizo, Death's Storehouse.

    Even gonna try out Mikokoro, Center of the Sea with the Spirit.

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