Deadguy ale Primer: http://articles.mtgcardmarket.com/br...n-deadguy-ale/ (Jeff did it before me)
But why? Between swords to plowshares, vindicate/judgement and discard you should have enough to kill it already not to mention that lingering souls can buy you so many turns. Taking 5 damage to kill an angler means that the angler has already done it's job.
Effectively the same list, but -2 brutalities +1 hero, +1 inquisition
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Batterskull
1 Bayou
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Chrome Mox
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Karakas
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Hero of Bladehold
2 Lingering Souls
4 Marsh Flats
2 Palace Jailer
1 Plains
4 Scrubland
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Swamp
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thoughtseize
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Vindicate
4 Wasteland
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Containment Priest
1 Fatal Push
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Sanctum Prelate
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
Deadguy ale Primer: http://articles.mtgcardmarket.com/br...n-deadguy-ale/ (Jeff did it before me)
I think we can agree going 1 for 1 against Angler is not plan A with Toxic Deluge.
If there's the options to swords Angler then Deluge for 1 or 2 life and wipe an army of tokens, we're going to do that.
But sometimes that's not available and Toxic Deluge does provide some pretty important flexibility. I wouldn't totally count it out from somewhere in the 75.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/26-04...?cb=1518547913
I played this list in a 3- round paper event yesterday.
2-0 vs Elves
2-0 vs Grixis Delver
Split with Czech Player, but lost either 1-2 or 0-2 when playing it out for fun.
My Sideboard wasn't great for the actual field. Most of the regulars weren't there, and so the expected amount of non-elves combo was nil instead.
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Went 6-3 at Worcester. Needed at least 6-2-1 to make day 2. Boo urns. Will write out report later.
Deadguy ale Primer: http://articles.mtgcardmarket.com/br...n-deadguy-ale/ (Jeff did it before me)
Starcity report Worcester. Went 6-3. Didn't quite make it in. Deck mostly the same, except for taking out a Containment Priest in the board for another Liliana, the Last Hope.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Shriekmaw
1 Hero of Bladehold
3 Thoughtseize
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Hymn to Tourach
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Vindicate
1 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
3 Lingering Souls
2 Chrome Mox
4 Scrubland
1 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Verdant Catacombs
SIDE: 2 Humility, 1 Leyline of the Void, 1 Leyline of Sanctity, 2 Relic of Progenitus, 1 Surgical Extraction, 1 Dismember, 1 Engineered Explosives, 1 Toxic Deluge, 1 Zealous Persecution, 1 Gaddock Teeg, 1 Collective Brutality, 1 Sanctum Prelate, 1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Round 1. Jamie Bateson. BR reanimator W 2-0
He's on the play and he Unmasks himself pitching Thoughtseize. I'm thinking....oh crap. He tanks and says he made a mistake. He discards Exhume. I'm confused... Turns out he thought Unmask can't target creatures. Oops. Turns out I kinda made a mistake too. Unmask's oracle text is player reveals their hand, I didn't know that. Of course, my mistake isn't quite as bad as his. I proceed to fetch a Bayou and play a Deathrite.
Game 2. I mull to 6. No lands but a Leyline of the Void. I keep and scry and keep the Swamp on top. Turns out he had the turn 1 entomb and exhume play. He conceeded not longer after, realizing he had no removal for the Leyline. He boarded in Decays for me but not the Reverent Silence.
Round 2. Mykola Markowyz (sp) BUG Delver L2-0
Mana screwed both games, he didn't even need to wasteland much either. Frustrating as Delver is a favored match
Round 3. Chris Boyd. Aluren. L2-1
Lost game 3 with a Bob with SOFI on it. He brainstormed last turn. So....I needed....any discard spell, Liliana of the Veil, Humility or Gaddock Teeg. And I get to see 3 cards that turn. Whiff. It was a fun match though. He casts a Man-o-war to try and bounce his Eternal Witness. In response to the trigger I cast Zealous. Making him have to bounce the man-o-war back to his hand. Matches were very attrition based.
Round 4. Aaron Kent. Grixis Delver W2-1
I didn't much from losing game 1. So I thought he was more of a Czech Pile deck, with probably Therapies in the 75 (since I saw Probe game 1). So I sided in my Leyline of Sanctity. I see in my opening 7 in game 2. LOL. He's a bit mana light so He casts 2 Probes, having to target himself. Game 3, Liliana the Last Hope Ultimates.
Round 5. Matthew Yeaton. Nic Fit. W2-1
Super Attrition matchup. Game 1 I ultimate Liliana the Last Hope again...and almost lose. He has a Carnage Tyrant out and then gets a Pernicious Deed to wipe my Zombies and a couple of Lingering Soul tokens out and swings me down to 2. I topdeck another souls so I have enough guys to mega block the Tyrant and eventually overwhelm him. Man that creature is scary. Another highlight is I have an active Liliana, the last hope and he zenith's for Voice of Resurgence. I hardcast Shriekmaw to kill the Voice and Lilly kills the token. Tag team.
Round 6. Steven Thompson. Elves. L2-1
He keeps a 5 lander but without good pressure he;s able to Glimpse out of it. Game 2. Jitte gets him. He has the Abrupt Decay but doesn't draw a fetchland and/or Bayou. Game 3. He swarms me with little dudes and I try and stabilize with Toxic Deluge but it's too little, too late.
Funny thing is after the match he says I'm the best Deadguy Ale player he's ever met. I LOL and ask him how many players is that out of. He said that there are at least 3 dead guy players in his meta. In fact, in the classic the guy beside me asks if I;m the deadguy ale player and said his friend couldn't stop talking about how efficient I am with the deck.
Round 7. Brandon UR Delver. W2-1
All I can remember is an unfortunate Play, So he's gonna die next turn to a Lingering soul beatdown (including one with a Batterskull on it). He swings with 3 Swiftspears and a TNN. I block with 3 tokens (1 with skull on it which I shouldnt have). He's tapped out but I don't think about Pyrokinesis. Which should have won him the game on the spot....but he didn't see that I had a Soul token tapped from attacking last turn. He could have easily killed that token too but didn't see it. So then I'm able to equip that soul and win.
Round 8. Drew. Storm. W2-0.
He mulls to 5 game 1 and I have discard. Game 2 he blind therapies me naming Deathrite. he gets one and sees I have first turn Hymn via a Chrome Mox. One of his friends walks by and he says to him "hey wanna see me get Hymned turn 1?". :) Not only that but I hymned him on my turn 2 as well.
Round 9. Peter. Eldrazi. W2-0
His starts weren't explosive and when he Chaliced, I didn't have many cards in hand affected by it. Bob and Stoneforge were very good here. Both Lilly's as well.
6-3. Not terrible but making day 2 obviously a goal.
-only had a few Chrome Mox openers. And they were late into the day.
-mulled more than I usually do.
-Plus side is Leylines showed up in 2 of the 3 matches I put them in against. BR reanimator, Grixis Delver (in hindsight probably shouldn't have put in leyline for this matchup), Storm
-Ultimating Liliana the last Hope is insane. Going to with 1 main and 1 board for now.
-Should probably have another low cost removal spell for Deathrite, Delver etc.
-Surprised to see a lot of Reanimator but not a whole lot of Eldrazi.
-Hero of Bladehold Kill count. 1. Only saw her once. It was against Eldrazi. Already had a Batterskull and 2 Lingering Souls out. So she cleaned house in 1 swing.
-My friend who drove in with me played Deadguy at the classic and went 19th.
Had a legacy tournament at my LGS today. 14 players. Didn’t do so well. I went 5-6 which was 2-3 in matches. Finished 9th place. I beat Grixis Delver twice. Lost to B/R Reanimator and Show and Tell and once to Grixis Delver. Reanimator was a close match up and I really want my 2 Rest In Peace to become Leyline of the Void. Chancellor of the Annex abused me so bad I wanted to call the cops. Show and Tell was also a tough match up. What sideboard tech can we use against them? I boarded in 2 Ethersworn Canonist, 1 Spirit of the Labyrinth, 1 Kambal and 1 Gideon of the Trials. The meta shifted at my LGS to either Grixis Delver or unfair decks. Deadguy was having trouble keeping up.
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Faerie Macabre is graveyard hate that can interact through Chancellor on turn zero.
For SnT I'm hoping to discard a key piece and then Surgical Extraction. Humility is a good option as something to block them with when Show and Tell resolves. Your hate bears are better than main deck cards but they alone are not going to be disruptive enough to swing the match much vs traditional Sneak and Show. They do look a lot better vs. Omniscience versions. Phyrexian Revoker naming Sneak Attack is a good one. It's versatile to come in against a variety of decks(LED, Jace, etc) but also specifically potent compared to something like Spirit of the Labyrinth which is pretty mild.
What does your list look like? The BR and S&T matches are tricky, it just comes down to having interaction in the first couple of turns and if you don't you kind of lose. If your only yard hate is RIP i'd 100% recommend changing to something quicker like surgical, crypt, spellbomb and to a lesser extent relic. turn 2 is way too slow against a deck that is trying to put in a griselbrand into play turn 1 or 2. Stuff like containment priest helps out with both matchups as well.
It looks like your board is very tuned to beat storm combo, but not much outside of that. I don't like spirit or gideon in this deck. Spirit is clunky and we can't vial it in like D&T and Gideon does absolutely nothing against nonstorm decks.
Thanks for help guys. I’ll type of my list as soon as I can so we can brainstorm a little more.
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Mini tournament report. 5 rounder. Swiss only, prize payout based on record. 4 wins and an intentional draw. $15 turns into $140 credit. Not bad. And get to go home early as an added bonus since I thought there was a cut to top 8.
Same old same old list. No changes from last time.
Round 1. Burn. Win 2-0.
I'm on the draw. I have a Chrome mox and Dark Confidant opening. PLus a jitte and a Shaman. I see Swiftspear off a basic mountain. LOL, turn 1 Bob option is turned off. I manage to get Jitte and Lingering Souls online. gg.
Game 2. I stall the game long enough to hard cast Leyline of Sanctity. I cast Liliana of the Veil a turn later. Funny thing is my opponent draws a Fireblast and a Lava Spike later and because the Planeswalker rules haven't changed yet he can't hit me or Lilly with the Lava Spike. I get a Jitte online later and it's game ova.
Round 2. Tezzeret. Win 2-0
He gets Thopter combo online but I'm able to still beat him with a Batterskull with a Sword of Fire and Ice on it.
Game 2. I have a Bob and a lingering souls token. He casts a Daretti and makes a token. I am then able to cast a Liliana, the Last Hope to kill the token and knock Daretti down to 1 loyalty. I'm able to pressure enough with Lilly the last hope to win.
Round 3. Storm. Win 2-0.
I have just enough discard to win the game. A couple of turns he had a ton of possible storm/mana but needed a business spell that luckily he couldn't draw or find.
Game 2. Gaddock Teeg gets there. Funny thing is he boards in Massacre and Chain of Vapor but no Decays. He knows of my Leyline of Sanctity and decided to board that way...So he does Chain Teeg in one turn but can't combo off.
Round 4. Lands. Win 2-0.
Molten Vortex is online with 2 open red mana. I have a Batterskull with a germ on it. 5 open mana. A sword of fire and ice in play and a Deathrite Shaman in hand. I swing with the token hoping he would kill the token, leaving the door open for a cast and equipped Shaman with SOFI. It works. So I have a Shaman with SOFI and Skull equipped. LOL, he later gets a Maze of Ith. So I'm able to swing, he mazes Shaman. In response to Maze I activate Shaman to either eat a land or eat an instant or sorcery....and then it untaps. So i get 2 activations each turn.
Game 2. I have an early Relic to slow things down. And then I have a Leyline of the Void and a Sanctum Prelate with a Skull equipped to it. (prelate is on 2). He does have 2 Krosan Grips but Prelate on 2 stops what he had in hand.....1 Ancient Grudge, 2 Punishing Fire and a Life from the Loam. My varied hate gets there.
Round 5. Steel Stompy. ID. But we played for testing Win 2-1.
Game 1. Deathrite turn 1 allows me to destroy his resources pretty fast. He is mana light and I help that along. :D
Game 2. Starts out fine. He has turn 1 and 2 Thorn of Amethyst. I have turn 1 Shaman, turn 2 Shaman and a Stoneforge for Batterskull. But he kills Mystic with Ballista and Foundry Inspector helps him puke out more guys than I can deal with.
Game 3. He has a Foundry Inspector and 2 Revokers both on Shaman and a Thorn of Amethyst. I topdeck an Engineered Explosives. I cast it for 1 black and 1 white (the White is used to sastify thorn condition) but I have 2 starburst....so it's on 2. 3 for 1 removal is what saved my bacon here.
Notes:
-Steel Stompy is a real deck. Especially with Inspector. Starts can be super fast. It's a deck I may try out at some point.
-Both Leylines came up huge for me....even when I have to cast them. LOL.
-haven't missed cutting Shriekmaw down to 1. Liliana, the Last Hope (the card I replaced a Shriekmaw with main) has been amazing. I ulitmate a fair bit with that card. I did once today vs Tezzeret. I did goof and miss making a couple of zombies one turn but I won the game anyway.
Hello All:
I built the following list and have had some good success at my weeklies:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
3 Bitterblossom
3 Lingering Souls
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Liliana of the Veil
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Fatal Push
1 Vindicate
3 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Collective Brutality
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
3 Scrubland
3 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Vault of the Archangel
sb:
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Containment Priest
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Auriok Champion
1 Pithing Needle
1 Choke
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Humility
1 Disenchant
1 Liliana the Last Hope
I originally built this list because I had been on the Blue-Based Stoneforge Mystic deck plan for a long time. First Deathblade, then Stoneblade. I was having a lot of issues with Blade getting pulled too much in both directions trying to fight combo, fair and control decks. Once Sensei's Divining Top was banned, I thought I'd be free of having to worry about a truly competitive control deck, but of course Czech Pile was already becoming a thing, and Portent Miracles grew soon afterwards.
In my frustration, I decided I wanted to ditch Stoneforge Mystic so I could stop getting blown out my Kolaghan's Command and start running more walkers/token generators. I came up with the list above.
Over the course of testing and few weeklies, I am something like 80% match win rate. However, I can tell you that the win rate is just a paper tiger, because I played against a lot of people playing suboptimally and actually missing lines to beat me in some cases.
Regardless, it's led me back to the conclusion that Stoneforge Mystic may be necessary. I'd like to discuss the lines of play people take to beating the best decks in the format, Grixis Delver and Czech Pile. What's your win rate? What cards outperform? Where do you use tricks to pull ahead?
My initial thoughts from reviewing Wilkin's list is that I want more efficient removal. Abrupt Decay is great but is Fatal Push better? Without Abrupt Decay, I can cut Teeg from the board and focus on fetching basics to start the game.
Thoughts?
This is the same problem that I keep on running into. The cards that are good against delver e.g. SFM aren't good against Czech and the cards that are good against Czech e.g. bitterblossom aren't good against Delver. I think that once you cut the SFM package red becomes a lot more appealing.
I'm sitting at around 51% against Grixis Delver (22/43 matches) and 49ish (17/35) against Czech Pile currently. For the Czech i'd just recommend trying to go under them. I've found that trading blow with cards like hymn isn't very good since later on their cantrips help them find exactly what they are looking for. You're basically the aggro control deck in the matchup, if the game goes late you've probably lost as their topdecks are significantly better than yours. Walkers and stuff like pithing needle, relic and vindicate help out greatly in this matchup. I'm going to give a cop out answer but for the Delver matchup but really it just comes down to building up your manabase while dealing with their threats (just like another other match right?). For the most part you can play around their soft counters, but this just depends on the situation. Card for card a lot of the cards in our deck are better than theirs so you really need to slow yourself down. I'd recommend not falling into the trap of deluging an angler for 5 as that means that the angler has already done it's job. Sometimes they just have the delver draws and you can't really do anything about that, or you just draw the wrong type of hands e.g. removal heavy vs TNN draw or the Liliana hands vs Pyromancer draws.
Yeah basically what Cpt Haddock says.
I don't know what discord is. I don't know of any reddit threads specific to Deadguy. Not long ones anyway. I do see people ask from time to time about the deck on it though.
ClimbGneiss. Your list looks to be tailored to be better vs Czech Pile than Grixis Delver. You don't have Mystics and a ton of equipment to get blown out by K. Command. I would suggest going forward that you put in another Gideon, Ally of Zendikar if you are going hard on tokens as a lot of people are playing Liliana, the Last Hope in sideboards now.
Hmmm....I'm stubborn. LOL, it pained me to take out a Shriekmaw for a Liliana, the Last Hope. Although I have had instances where with Last Hope -2 ability, I'm able to evoke Shriekmaw mulitple times. :) My build is better able to take on Grixis Delver than Czech Pile. Have had some success with Leyline of Sanctity vs Czech Pile (for their Hymns, Edicts, Jace +2, Therapy) but of course there are times where it does nothing.
Wondering what Else I could do to out grind those decks. Liliana, the Last Hope has been really good. But with Angler and TNN, sometimes it doesn't do enough. LOL, hey I could bring back Gatekeeper of Malakir to raise dead with.
I think a Discord channel would be kick ass.
Plenty of other decks have a dedicated chat channel, so why leave ourselves in the dust? I can only imagine how having a chat channel could help evolve decks and their communities. Always nice to shoot the shit anyway!
Plus, I think that black/white-based strategies are usually not very well explored or represented so that tends to make for a slow journey down an arduous path.
I'm pretty sure that most of us here play B/W/X in Legacy because we dig the colors in general, and as we know... B/W decks rarely have a "stock" list, which is one of the most exciting and unique elements to the School of the Scrub(lands), so the more can do to keep information & ideas flowing the more bettah for all of us.
I'll look into hosting a dedicated channel for us.
My buddy also scripts tons of bots for Discord, so we might even be able to have a purdy nice setup if more Scrub mages cosign the idea!
Plus, play testing in-house will be really, really gainful since we can give relevant feedback to each other. Furk. Yes.
Later, boiz!
Dead Guy Ale // Burn
Delver/Pyro // Turbo Fish!
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