[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

[ClimbGneiss]

Hello All:

I'm actually a fan of this deck after the Deathrite banning. It seems like one of the few midrange decks able to weather the storm. I've been looking at Wilkin's list and admiring the Chrome Moxes he runs. Has anyone else tried it? Wilkin, which cards do you find yourself pitching to it most frequently?

Here's where I'm at right now, without any testing in the new meta -

4 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
3 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Lingering Souls
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
=17

3 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Cabal Therapy
=8

3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
=4

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Vindicate
=7

3 Chrome Mox
=3

3 Scrubland
3 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
2 Windswept Heath
=21

Side.
1 Humility
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Disenchant
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Containment Priest
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Ajani, Advisary of Tyrants/Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 OTHER

[Wilkin]

I mostly end up pitching 3 mana cards like Liliana or Vindicate. Sometimes Therapy or Thoughtseize.

I dunno, Losing Deathrite really hurts. I used to have 6 ways to threaten a turn 2 Liliana. Now it's only 3. Now I'm wondering if it's better to be a slow grindy deck like what Hoogland does or still try the faster Chrome Mox, resource denial plan. With Shaman, you could do both easily. Now, I don't know.

LOL, well they printed Fauna Shaman at around when Survival got banned, perhaps they will print a fixed shaman... I doubt it but one can hope.

[ClimbGneiss]

I mostly end up pitching 3 mana cards like Liliana or Vindicate. Sometimes Therapy or Thoughtseize.

I dunno, Losing Deathrite really hurts. I used to have 6 ways to threaten a turn 2 Liliana. Now it's only 3. Now I'm wondering if it's better to be a slow grindy deck like what Hoogland does or still try the faster Chrome Mox, resource denial plan. With Shaman, you could do both easily. Now, I don't know.

LOL, well they printed Fauna Shaman at around when Survival got banned, perhaps they will print a fixed shaman... I doubt it but one can hope.

In your build, you are running 7 legit 2 cmc creatute cards. Have you considered Sculler and/or little thalia? I was tempted to go with zero Lingering Souls as much as I like the card but it's so great with equipment. I suppose we could add on 4 x 1 cmc cards like Mom or Judge's Familiar like folks are saying.
If we were to cut Mox I'd give the mana curve a hard look and pepper in more 1 cmc discard and use scullers and thalias (big and little ) to play a pseudo death and taxes type game plan?

[CptHaddock]

In your build, you are running 7 legit 2 cmc creatute cards. Have you considered Sculler and/or little thalia? I was tempted to go with zero Lingering Souls as much as I like the card but it's so great with equipment. I suppose we could add on 4 x 1 cmc cards like Mom or Judge's Familiar like folks are saying.
If we were to cut Mox I'd give the mana curve a hard look and pepper in more 1 cmc discard and use scullers and thalias (big and little ) to play a pseudo death and taxes type game plan?

Sculler might not be your best bet if you're playing Chrome Mox as you can't imprint artifacts, you do have that guy they play in modern humans though. I don't think I would ever cut souls from this deck, it's probably one of the biggest reasons to still play WBx. It's not as strong during the esper stoneblade glory days but it's still okay against the rest of the format. The problem i've run into a bunch of times with Thalia is that most lists are very spell based so you end up hurting yourself almost as much as you are hurting your opponent especially with no DRS in the format. Playing a bunch of singleton creatures and a couple of recruiters is actually pretty reasonable, i've been considering it but I haven't gotten around to testing it.

I think someone mentioned earlier in this thread that weathered wayfarer as another possibly 1 drop, I think that might be pretty good and gives you another reason to play mother of runes; although you might have to rework the deck to be more white mana focused in the earlier game.

[Mr. Safety]

Cool discussion, one I'm keeping an eye on if I get bored with Nic Fit and Dreadstill. I think the Rock/Junk ship has sailed and Deadguy is just a better mid-range value deck. Here are some thoughts I have from reading through the thread:

1) Tidehollow Sculler is one of my favorite cards of all time, and I think it's good enough for 2 copies or more if Chrome Mox gets cut. Mother of Runes I think works very well at curving into Sculler. Sculler's weakness has always been that his exile effect doesn't stick when he gets removed. Mom can protect him.
2) The alternatives to Sculler are Sin Collector, Kitesail Freebooter, and Brain Maggot. None of those are as efficient as Sculler. The best is probably Sin Collector, but at 3 mana is a tough sell for me; I'd rather be casting Souls/Vindicate/Liliana for 2 mana.
3) Weathered Wayfarer is a fantastic idea for a 1-drop, especially if you have Chrome Mox to achieve 3 mana consistently for Vindicate. Alternatively, there is Sinkhole, but it's lack of flexibility is a strike against it. This may be the 1-drop the deck needs to curve out. I can see this as a way to utilize a toolbox approach as well, such as Bojuka Bog, Karakas, and Maze of Ith. Lots of designe space here, even if it is old technology.

I think there are 2 distinct approaches here:

-Weathered Wayfarer + Chrome Mox + low-land count
-Mother of Runes + Tidehollow Sculler

Both have their merits, with Wayfarer being better in a 'fair' environment and Sculler being better in a combo-centric environment. I'm not sure you can cram both Wayfarer/Mother in the same deck without sacrificing the core of Deadguy (souls/sfm/equips/hymn/discard/stp/vindicate.) I have the Moms and scullers, I just need to grab a set of Wayfarer and another Chrome Mox and I can try the other option out. Another card I want to try is Smuggler's Copter. It allows Confidant to swing for 3 without risking him in combat, upgrades Stoneforges that aren't doing anything but attack for 1, upgrades Mother/Wayfarer, and in particular lets my Bloodghasts block instead of being only an anemic threat. Upgrading a Souls token isn't the worst either if you need to dig. Maybe 1-2 Copters.

[Notion Thief]

Tournament Report:
Hey guys, just got back from a 4-round tournament at my LGS. Played my deadguy list to 3-1 for a Top 4 finish. I test drove a few fun cards in the list but think I'll replace the Demons with Kaya, who I think solves a lot of the problems this deck can run into. Here's my list

4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Lingering Souls
2 Hymn to Torach
2 Vindicate

2 Liliana, the last Hope
2 Liliana of the Veil

4 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge mystic
3 Judges Familiar
2 Mother of Runes
2 Kitesail Freebooter
2 Demon of Catastrophes (just for fun, wouldn't play again)
1 Isareth the Awakener (actually a really neat 1-of that won me a game, will test it as a singleton for a while)

1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Marsh Flats
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Plains
2 Swamp
3 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
1 Karakas

SB:
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Containment Priest
2 zealous Persecution
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Bitterblossom
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Mother of Runes
1 Surgical Extraction.

Round 1: BUG Delver
I start of game 1 with a thoughtseize, see 2 decay, 2 force, 2 anglers and a daze. I take one of the anglers, play around daze and keep him on one land with wasteland and vindicate. I keep swinging with souls tokens until I slam a LotV. I follow up with Isareth, then tick up Lili and pitch a Demon, swing and tap 4 to live the dream and get my demon back into play and the game was over.

Game 2 I open with Judges familiar, which curves into stoneforge, batterskull already in hand. I find a SoFI. He played delver t1, then winter orb t3 in response to my stoneforge (guess trying to get there with Delver before I could get the sword in play and equipped), but 2 mana batterskull > delver and his delver never ends up flipping so I quickly close the game out.

Win 2-0

Round 2: Monored moon stompy
Game 1 he gets chalice on 1 and 2 (after I get a bob online), I play lili and begin ticking up. I hard cast a batterskull eventually, and he plays an ensnaring bridge in response to stop it. Lili ultimates a few turns later and I end up wiping a bridge, blood sun, some thopter tokens from Pia Nalaar, and a chalice on 1, leaving him with blood moon and his lands. He doesn't find another bridge and batterskull takes it home.

Game 2, He plays t1 chalice on 1, then t2 rabblemaster and stomps my face with goblins. It was quick at least.

Game 3, Thoughtseize away a chalice t1 into hymn turn 2. Hymn hits both his mountains in hand, and I waste his ancient tomb and he sits there unable to cast anything while I beat down with a judges familiar carrying a Sword of Fire and Ice.

Win 2-1

Round 3: Miracles

I hate this matchup, always have, always will. Game 1 was just a bunch of well time board wipes and plow snap plow and not being able to find a second lingering souls to get any kind of pressure going. Game 2 mull to 5 didn't help. I thoughtseized away a mentor, then another mentor, he gets a jace down on a post-terminus board and I never recovered.

Lose 0-2 - I boarded in bitterblossoms and Kambal to try to help this matchup but never saw any of them.

Round 4: Elves
Judges familar makes him wait an extra turn to try to go off with glimpse (he had two nettle sentinels in play, tapped). This lets me get a Lili last Hope down to take out a symbiote. He casts double glimpse on his turn and plays the only elf left in his hand. If he hit a creature on either draw he'd have probably gone off but he saw Forest, Forest, and I proceeded to clear his board with lili and a plow and won easily.

Game 2: He played 4 elves by turn 2 and had a pendelhaven so the ethersworn canonist I brought in couldn't block his little dudes productively. Eventually he just overwhelmed me with numbers

Game 3: I waste his dryad arbor after a green sun, edict his next creature, Lili Last Hope his quirion ranger, then drop a canonist and he just scooped and called it a day.

Win 2-1

All in all the list ran pretty well. The demons are obviously a silly flex slot, and were occasionally just dead cards in hand. However Isareth is a pretty legit threat against decks that deal with creatures with non-StP means (countermagic, damage, discard etc..). I'll probably keep it as a one-of for now just for fun. The demons will probably either become Kaya, or mainboard Bitterblossom. Still deciding which idea I like better. The sideboard was fine although I'm open to suggestions on shoring up the miracles matchup without splashing any other colors. Bitterblossom, Kambal, and the extra mother of runes to fend off Plow didn't quite feel like enough, but that might be because I didn't draw any of them at any point.

Anyway, was good to see this list work well against a pretty diverse meta.

[Sleepy_Eyes]

Vampire Neonate has been purdy solid so far in my testing.
I dig Neonate's ability since I usually used DRS to drain & heal anyway. While not being the same, the easier generic mana cost sorta-kinda makes up for it... but the -1:+1 swing is sexy though.

The 0/3 body sometimes is a bust but at least it blocks like a boss.
It's also a good time when your opponent uses removal on it.

Anyway, just another okay 1CMC dude to experiment with.


Adios mi amigos

[Notion Thief]

Vampire Neonate has been purdy solid so far in my testing.

What does the rest of your list look like? Thats a neat idea, my biggest worry being its a real dud when you curve into a jitte. Ive been looking at Thrull Parasite for similar draining reasons, and it can help keep planeswalkers at bey by eating loyalty. Less of a stone wall thans neonate, but similar theory.

[Hamhams]

What match up is neonate good for? I would much rather use iok to protect my more powerful threats, just takes too much mana to do anything.

I see the same problem with wayfinder, it just doesn't do enough to progress our board which I feel is so important to the deck.

[Notion Thief]

What match up is neonate good for? I would much rather use iok to protect my more powerful threats, just takes too much mana to do anything.

I see the same problem with wayfinder, it just doesn't do enough to progress our board which I feel is so important to the deck.

Yeah only real use for wayfinder i can think of is if you run a couple hexmages and try to have a mini-depths package, but it seems not great. Guess it lets you board bojuka bog too?

[Wilkin]

3-2 for 9th place in a Eternal Trial today. Lost my win and in. ugh.

List is same as the last one I posted....Lol, i think. I have 2 Remorseful Cleric main with a Mox Diamond (1 Mox diamond and 2 Chrome mox for acceleration).


Round 1. Esper blade. Win 2-1
I win game 1. Cleric goes in turn 1 and clocks for a few turns. Thought he was on more of a Jace Miracle build so I board out Shriekmaw. I promptly die to equipment game 2 so I board in Shriekmaw and cast it for 5 to kill a white creature (A Gideon Knight Token I think) in game 3.

Round 2. Miracles Lose in 2.
Lingering Souls beatdown game 1 with a Liliana, the Last hope about to go ulitmate. Lose to Jace game 2 and 3. funny part was when I hymned him. I knew he had force of will and a mentor (couple other unknown cards as well). He could have forced, but let it resolve....I took 2 Mentors.

Round 3. Infect. Win in 2.
I have a turn 1 bob. He counters my Mystic. I promptly draw a Jitte and suit up Bob. GG. Game 2, he has an inkmoth nexus with Berserk and Invigorate but I have the Zealous Persecution to stop it.

Round 4. Cdn Threshold. Lose in 3.
2 Goyfs are too much game 1. Game 2 I win with Batterskull and Shambling Vent. Game 3, I punted. I'm at 4 with 2 Souls and a Shambling Vent. He has no dudes. I don't swing with Vent, since I figure I'd lose it to bolt and lose a land....but I should run it out....3 less damage to me.

Round 5. Tezzerator. Win in 2.
Both games I had turn 1 Mystic. Both games I had Batterskull with a Sword of Fire and Ice on it. Both games he had Baleful Strix in play. GG.

Deck ran ok. Had a chance in my win and in and punted hard.
-Remorseful Cleric was ok. Wore some equipment. Clocked for a bit. Traded with a Delver.
-Shambling Vent was ok. Should be more aggresive with it, in terms of attacking.
-2 Chrome Mox and 1 Mox diamond split was ok so far.
-Bontu's last reckoning was alright, killing a goyf and mongoose.
-Lingering souls and Stoneforge were maindeck mvp
-Only zealous out of my board did much.
-had a turn 1 bob and 3 turn 1 Mystic.

12-8 with Dead guy post banning. 60% win rate which is not far off what I was before, but haven't top 8 in the 2 tournaments I played so far. So deck is still ok for me.

[Teluin]

I actually think that Mox Diamond should just replace Chrome Mox. You're dropping lands you probably don't/won't need and keeping the spells you can play with them.

[Wilkin]

I actually think that Mox Diamond should just replace Chrome Mox. You're dropping lands you probably don't/won't need and keeping the spells you can play with them.

I could, but I would have to up the land count in the deck. I used to play rock back in the day and I ran 3 Mox Diamond. I had I think 24 or 25 land.

So I'd have to make some cuts and add at least 2 lands. Not a crazy amount of course but it is something to consider.

[Wilkin]

Oh and wondering, how is Kaya, Ghost Assaassin?

I hear it's good control decks Like Miracles. What about vs say Burn? Or against combo?

[Notion Thief]

Oh and wondering, how is Kaya, Ghost Assaassin?

I hear it's good control decks Like Miracles. What about vs say Burn? Or against combo?

I find kaya to be very underrated. Against burn/combo she can be admittedly kinda slow at 4 cmc, but if she sticks she'll do a ton of work against both. Curving lili of the veil into kaya feels great. Obviously as you said, shes a great weapon vs control type decks. Being able to unflip a delver is nice too. I plan to run 2x somewhere in my 75 at all times.

[Sleepy_Eyes]

Neonate probably isn't great for any particular match-up lolz

I came to it by breaking down my playstyle and then examining why I had the voodoo daddy in my deck to begin with.

Personally, I hardly used him for ramp. His tap swamp ability was my most used out of the three by far, runner-up was his tap green ability. Outside of those, I really was all-in on his 2HP (yall already know why!).

I wrote down a list of all the black (and white) 1CMC dudes that looked playable (both for "just me" and then for DGA) and Mr. Vamp ticks a lot of my (misguided) boxes.

He's not a 100% pick or anything rather an interesting card that I wanted to toy with. I'm all for loading up on Duress effects and going that route but, HOT DAYUM DO I WUB MY MANA SINKS!

My list is "stock" maybe with a few random experiments going on. I need to take a peek and see what's up though. I'll post back.


(hero of bikinihold 4 lyfe)

[Hamhams]

Oh and wondering, how is Kaya, Ghost Assaassin?

I hear it's good control decks Like Miracles. What about vs say Burn? Or against combo?

Kaya is great, there are some match ups where she isn't optimized, she is still good in all of them. Plus there is nothing like curving from Lili to Kaya and watching your opponent cry as your draw 2 cards during your turn and they discard 2.

[Ganfar]

Kaya is great, there are some match ups where she isn't optimized, she is still good in all of them. Plus there is nothing like curving from Lili to Kaya and watching your opponent cry as your draw 2 cards during your turn and they discard 2.

Kaya is good agisnt controll and grindy matchups. I have one in my sideborad and it always felt nice to play her.

[dmunozg]

Once I won 2 out of 3 games against Death's Shadow thanks to Kaya... I resolved Kaya G1 when he was at 4 life, and again in G3 when he was at 3 life... in both cases I had blockers to protect her and my opponent could not find an answer during his last turn :D

I was playing a list similar to the one the Professor had in his video and what Jeff Hoogland was playing, but after the bans I've been testing several changes (given all the changes here in the Seattle metagame)... I want to try a list with Chrome Mox... I want to try something with several token producers too, so I will have some Monastery Mentors and some Heroes of Bladehold

This is what I will test next time:

MB:
2x Abyssal Persecutor
4x Dark Confidant
2x Hero of Bladehold
2x Monastery Mentor
3x Stoneforge Mystic

1x Batterskull
3x Chrome Mox
1x Umezawa's Jitte

1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1x Kaya, Ghost Assassin
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope

3x Cabal Therapy
2x Lingering Souls
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Thoughtseize
2x Vindicate
2x Zealous Persecution

2x Bloodstained Mire
1x Karakas
4x Marsh Flats
3x Plains
2x Scrubland
4x Swamp
1x Shambling Vent
4x Wasteland

SB:
1x Containment Priest
1x Council's Judgment
1x Diabolic Edict
1x Disenchant
2x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Extirpate
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1x Leonin Relic-Warder
1x Rest in Peace
1x Spirit of the Labyrinth
1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Toxic Deluge

The Ensnaring Bridges are there because SnS has been strong lately here and I think it's the best way to prevent Emrakul from emptying my side of the board.

I am playing multiple Heros and Persecutors just to test them a little, as I have not played with them before... I think after testing i will make some changes and probably remove some of the 4 drops and replace them with Bitterblossoms and/or Collective Brutalities.

I will probably need to make space for a SoFaI (which I don't have... I have a SoFaF but not playing it because of space)

I am open to suggestions and opinions.

[Hamhams]

Once I won 2 out of 3 games against Death's Shadow thanks to Kaya... I resolved Kaya G1 when he was at 4 life, and again in G3 when he was at 3 life... in both cases I had blockers to protect her and my opponent could not find an answer during his last turn :D

I was playing a list similar to the one the Professor had in his video and what Jeff Hoogland was playing, but after the bans I've been testing several changes (given all the changes here in the Seattle metagame)... I want to try a list with Chrome Mox... I want to try something with several token producers too, so I will have some Monastery Mentors and some Heroes of Bladehold

I worry that mentor might be too clunky myself. With my personal play style I would probably be out of spells to cast before I tried to land him most the time.