[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

[Versus]

Hmmmm, I'm guessing a certain Sliver or a Swamp fetching Legend??

I've been wanting to test Hunted Horror myself. The drawback seems dealable.

[electrolyze]

i've been testing a buid with horror and it works quite well.

here it is:

deadguy ale:

3xspectral lynx
3xnantuko shade
3xjotun grunt
4xdark confidant
2xhunted horror

3xengineered explosives

4xswords to plowshares
4xdark ritual

4xhymn to tourach
4xduress
4xvindicate

4xscrubland
4xbloodstained mire
1xtomb of urami
1xtainted field
8xswamp
4xwasteland

sb:

4xchainer's edict
4xwithered wretch
3xdisenchant
4xengineered plague

i cutted sinkholes and hippies for explosives, horror and more lynxes and the horror/lynx combi works good and with explosives you dont have trouble with the centaurs.

[thefreakaccident]

The great thing is that explosives is actually quite affective in the current meta game, it will strengthen your combo MU and your aggro-control MU.

Good idea!

[electrolyze]

i've tested a bit more with this list and i think explosives are really a ubergood card for this deck right now. the lynxes works really good too.

but the horror was not that good as i think because my opponent had most of the time too much destruction agianst the horror and i havent got the lynx or explosives in eacht game so the horror was actually a dead card in my hand.

i'm gonna try some other fatties instead of the horror but i dont know wich i should take. i was thinking of plague sliver but it is not a good combo with dark confidant because you lose too much life.

has somebody suggestions about wich creature i should take?

[Tacosnape]

Lynx, for what it's worth, is insane tech. UGR Threshold has a nightmare getting rid of it once it hits the table, and it'll fence with Tarmogoyf all day long.

The problem with fatties and Dark Confidant is that there aren't many super fatties that have low Converted Mana Costs. Tarmogoyf isn't in our color scheme, Jotun Grunt sucks, Phyrexian Negator's insanely risky, and Flesh Reaver's just godawful.

I think an option is to just go the speed route with your guys. Like, here. This is sort of the hybrid of Stark Black, Red Death gone White, and Deadguy Ale.

4 Scrubland
1 Godless Shrine
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
7 Swamp
4 Dark Ritual

4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Vindicate

4 Carnophage
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Dark Confidant
4 Nantuko Shade
3 Spectral Lynx

SB:
4 Planar Void
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Engineered Plague
2 Pithing Needle
2 Meekstone (This could be, I dunno. Serenity? Geddon? Explosives? Anything metagamey.)

I've had good luck with this list lately. It borrows Stark Black's strength of being able to ritual out and equip a Jitte on turn two, plus here you can open with Rit-Duress-Confidant, Rit-Carnophage-Hymn, or whatnot. Planar Void is amazing nowadays, as it singlehandedly causes nightmares for a horde of decks and keeps Tarmogoyf off of you if it comes out early. Three Plagues and 2 Needles gives you solid versatility. The Meekstones seem very cool in this build, but they may or may not earn their keep. I need to test it more.

Thoughts?

[Sigar]

Looks super cool,

but I would maindeck StP over Cabal Therapy

And I would also like to see some kind of evasion on that list.

Mistral Charger, Serra Avenger, Hyppe, Skirge?

I also think Descendant of Kiyomaro is hot in a B/W discard deck.

[Hummingbird TG]

Personally my testing build MDs Tombstalker(s) and Sensei's Divining Top. The top should reduce the instances one gets hit for 8.

[Versus]

That does look interesting. Suicide Grey!

These Fetch lands freak me out though. Taco has 6 listed in his deck and some have 7, but the ones that have 4. If that get's Needled you're gonna be sitting there trying to get those 4 Scrubs just to play half your cards.

Obviously I don't know shit about it cause I never really tried it (other than a few games proxied), but why have Pain Lands (then RAV Shocks) completely fallen out of the good graces of Legacy players?

All I can gather is Wasteland...?

[Hummingbird TG]

Because to tap them for colored mana, pain lands cost more life over the course of a game than Shock lands. Also, they're unfetchable

[Versus]

Because to tap them for colored mana, pain lands cost more life over the course of a game than Shock lands. Also, they're unfetchable

Sure, that's understandable. The Ravnica Lands are though, but those cost 2. It's obviously not a risk having Fetches Needled. I'm just shocked that some run so few mana sources for their splash colors. Don't get me wrong. I see the value in them completely. I was just expecting land lists would look more like:

4 Duals
4 RAV Shocks
4 Fetch
8 Main color

Red Death run 6/7 Fetch and 3 Duals and NOTHING else that creates splash mana. At least Pikula has the full set of Duals and a Tainted Field.

Alright, I won't derail the thread any longer. I was just curious.

[Tacosnape]

Looks super cool,

but I would maindeck StP over Cabal Therapy

And I would also like to see some kind of evasion on that list.

Mistral Charger, Serra Avenger, Hyppe, Skirge?

I also think Descendant of Kiyomaro is hot in a B/W discard deck.

You could easily maindeck STP over Therapy depending on your metagame.

As for evasion, I agree it would be nice. Serra Avenger's WW is too risky without a playset of fetches and several Godless Shrines involved (Compromising Shade with basic Plains is never my favorite idea), and although Avenger and Jitte are pretty hot together, I really want to get my Jitte online before I can play Avenger. I hate Skirge and Mistral Charger blows. Hpnotiq Specter's playable, but I've always felt he blows if you don't hit a Ritual. I'd want Chrome Moxes before I attempted him.

Spectral Lynx, for what it's worth, sort of fills the evasion role, as green creatures are usually the guys you most need to evade. Shade semi-evades for fear of a pump, and Jitte just lets my guys barrel through.

But I think if I were to edge a flyer in here I'd just go with Stromgald Crusader. Pro-STP and Pump are icing on the cake.

Sure, that's understandable. The Ravnica Lands are though, but those cost 2. It's obviously not a risk having Fetches Needled. I'm just shocked that some run so few mana sources for their splash colors. Don't get me wrong. I see the value in them completely. I was just expecting land lists would look more like:

4 Duals
4 RAV Shocks
4 Fetch
8 Main color

Red Death run 6/7 Fetch and 3 Duals and NOTHING else that creates splash mana. At least Pikula has the full set of Duals and a Tainted Field.

Alright, I won't derail the thread any longer. I was just curious.

I don't think this is derailing the thread. I think it's a highly valid point to bring up. The manabase is the heart and soul of a deck.

Pikula ran a total of nine black sources (4 Scrubs, a Field, and four fetchlands (All Mires)) for the following reasons:

1. His Deadguy Ale ran a lot of Land Destruction, and he wanted the option of needling Polluted Delta to contribute to this. From his own words, he expected there to be Psychatog decks which would run this.
2. He wanted to be wary of his life total with 4 Dark Confidants. This is a wise stance, but one I can afford to be riskier on as I maindeck 4 Jitte. Pikula had a mere two Gerrard's Verdicts to recover life.
3. As far as I can remember, Godless Shrine had not yet been printed / was not yet legal.
4. Pikula's deck functioned almost flawlessly without white. Other than Vindicate and Gerrard's Verdict, a total of 6 cards, nothing else maindeck required white. I can't say the same with my deck. I frequently will lead with Isamaru, Puppy of Konda, so I want white on turn 1 as frequently as possible. If 11 chances to hit white proves to be too low, I'll go to 4 Mires.

As for why we run Fetchlands over Shocklands, Fetchlands get you what you need for one less life total, evade Land Destruction in a pinch, and provide a shuffling effect (And a negligible thinning effect, though I've never felt this was reason enough alone to run them.) You'll notice I do run a single Godless Shrine, though, which is there strictly for the purpose of opposing decks not being able to Extirpate Scrubland and shut me off from a color permanently.

[Versus]

Thanks for clarifying that. I see it, I'm just still trying to get my mind out of Urza Block and into today's game. I'm getting there.

Your mana base and Pikula's seem more responsible, for lack of a better term. In the event there are Needles or Extirpates it's always good to have a back up. I guess my biggest issue was looking at Red Death. If someone did extirpate their Badlands or grabbed one out of the hand or LD'd it, they would be without red for the game.

As you said, it has to do with the deck itself and how vital the splashed cards are to your game. Also how too many Fetches can affect you life wise if there are other "suicidal" factors involved.

[Finn]

Hey, folks. I am guessing that Hunted Horror will not pan out, but a good card with it might be Oblation

Oblation 2w
instant
target nonland permanent's controller shuffles it into his library and then draws two cards.

...or something like that

Anyway, it works rather well with the centaurs since they are yours.

[The Rack]

You don't control the tokens created by the horror. You own them but don't control them.

[Tacosnape]

Thanks for clarifying that. I see it, I'm just still trying to get my mind out of Urza Block and into today's game. I'm getting there.

Your mana base and Pikula's seem more responsible, for lack of a better term. In the event there are Needles or Extirpates it's always good to have a back up. I guess my biggest issue was looking at Red Death. If someone did extirpate their Badlands or grabbed one out of the hand or LD'd it, they would be without red for the game.

As you said, it has to do with the deck itself and how vital the splashed cards are to your game. Also how too many Fetches can affect you life wise if there are other "suicidal" factors involved.

Red Death, in large part, doesn't have to worry about things like Extirpate on Badlands because Red Death just wants to kill you as fast as humanly possible. If a deck gets to the point where it has time to hit a Badlands and Extirpate it, it's already reached stability and Red Death's not happy by this point (Although there are exceptions, I think I'm still the only person who has ever decked someone while piloting Red Death.)

No variant of B/W Confidant will ever have the aggressive speed Red Death does. What it gets in place are better control cards like STP and Vindicate. This makes it a little more versatile, a better home for Confidant, but a bit slower and more controlling, meaning a greater need for a more stable manabase.

As a general rule, the slower your deck is to kill, the more resilient your manabase needs to be.

[thefreakaccident]

so, for a mainly aggro-control meta... with little bits of every thing else, what build would you guys suggest?

I recently lost my sinkholes, so I have been running smallpox... which hasn't been half bad for me so far.

here is the current list (not that different from classic Ale)

lands//23
5 swamp
4 scrubland
2 godless shrine
4 bloodstained mire
4 polluted delta
4 wasteland

creatures//11
4 dark confidant
4 hypnotic specter
3 nantuko shade

spells//26
4 duress
4 hymm to tourach
4 small pox
4 dark ritual
4 vindicate
3 extripate
3 cursed scroll

sideboard// (changes always)
generally speaking

4 engineered plague
4 engineered explosives
4 withered wretch
3 swords to plowshares

The addition of extripate seems to be helping a lot (make them discard a FoW and never see it again)... it also screws with poeple's manabases when you extripate a dual. Vindicate a critical part of their deck and extripate it.
the cursed scroll helps against control... it is harder to remove than a creature (plus it is pretty solid against goblins).

wretch helps against decks that require the grave (looking at ichorid, loam, breakfast, and survival here)... EE takes care of many problem cards the deck might face + ETW tokens.

tell me what you guys think about this current list of mine.

[Hummingbird TG]

4 Smallpoxes are too many dead cards, IMHO.

[Citrus-God]

Gahh.... Well, I'll update my Aggro build I guess....


// Mana 23
3 Chrome Mox
4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scrubland
1 Godless Shrine
5 Swamp


// Creatures 18
4 Carnophage
4 Spectral Lynx
4 Dark Confidant
3 Nantuko Shade
3 Aven Mindcensor


// Spells 19
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Vindicate
3 Umezawa's Jitte


// Sideboard 15
4 Yilix Jailer
4 Engineered Plague
3 Meekstone
4 Engineered Explosives


Why isnt Dark Ritual in here? Because Chrome Mox does it better. Deadguy Ale tends to have very explosive starts with Ritual, but it turns into a Giant Growth for Shade later as the game progresses... This is bad... Chrome Mox can at least do this; 1st turn Hymn, 2nd turn Vindicate. Dark Ritual can never produce a 2n turn Vindicate.

Also, Mindcensor was tech Hanni and I used for awhile. He moved into Rockguy, but I stuck around with Confidant.

Another list I have is a more controlling list. The deck wins by disrupting to stall time, and has tons of efficient creatures to wall myself in, meanwhile Aven Mindcensor and Hyppie go in for the kill...


// Mana 26
4 Dark Ritual
4 Wasteland
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scrubland
1 Godless Shrine
8 Swamp


// Creatures 18
4 Spectral Lynx
4 Dark Confidant
4 Hypnotic Specter
3 Nantuko Shade
3 Aven Mindcensor


// Spells 16
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Vindicate


// Sideboard 15
Undecided yet

[Hummingbird TG]

Why cutting the Jotun Grunts? Is the Lynx that much better against Thresh? It doesn't beat other than for 2, it doesnt hose the grave, but both can be removed...or is that extra blocker so important?

[Citrus-God]

Why cutting the Jotun Grunts? Is the Lynx that much better against Thresh? It doesn't beat other than for 2, it doesnt hose the grave, but both can be removed...or is that extra blocker so important?

It's just that, this is a late game deck that loves late game advantages. I never saw anything wrong with Lynx standing back while Avens and Specters beat them to a bloody pulp.

Persoally, I dont like Aven Mindcensors very much, but it's good against Combo and fetchlands. But right now, I might cut Mindcensors for Grunts.