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Thread: [Deck] Aluren

  1. #2101

    Re: [Deck] Aluren

    Quote Originally Posted by PuppyWuppy View Post
    From your experience. Do you feel that running 1 Parasitic Strix and 1 Cavern Harpy is very narrow of a strategy? I tried a similar list to yours where I ran only 1 of Parasitic Strix and Cavern Harpy and it felt very all in with Aluren and Recruiter of the Guard for me.

    Also why 1 of Arctic Merfolk and Quickling? I know that both creatures are able to return one of our creatures back to our hand, but wouldn't having a 2/2 flying flash creature be stronger then a non flying/flash 2/2? Or is Arctic Merfolk kicker cost that good enough to justify? Trying to understand this myself currently.

    Looking forward to your primer

    Well, I think that you should choose whether you want to play Recruiter version or the BUG one. If I play Recruiter I think 1 Strix and 1 Harpy is a fine number. You do not have enough valueable targets for bouncing (Shardless Agent etc.), so I think it is just a piece of combo. On the other hand, if you pick the BUG version, multiple Harpies and 2 Strixes are super value grinding strategy I agree it is sort of all in, but it is worth it. So thatīs for it from my point of view:-)

    I choose 1 Merfolk and 1 Quickling because each of the has it own way of bouncing. Quickling seems better and in many occasions it is, but the downside is you cannot play it on its own. You always need another creature. Therefore I donīt want to have 2 pieces of this card, I want to have two variations. Merfolk "kicker-bounce" is sometimes just super fun, because the opponent has zero ways for response. But itīs not a dogma - try both ways :-)

  2. #2102

    Re: [Deck] Aluren

    Quote Originally Posted by fapsik View Post
    Well, I think that you should choose whether you want to play Recruiter version or the BUG one. If I play Recruiter I think 1 Strix and 1 Harpy is a fine number. You do not have enough valueable targets for bouncing (Shardless Agent etc.), so I think it is just a piece of combo. On the other hand, if you pick the BUG version, multiple Harpies and 2 Strixes are super value grinding strategy I agree it is sort of all in, but it is worth it. So thatīs for it from my point of view:-)

    I choose 1 Merfolk and 1 Quickling because each of the has it own way of bouncing. Quickling seems better and in many occasions it is, but the downside is you cannot play it on its own. You always need another creature. Therefore I donīt want to have 2 pieces of this card, I want to have two variations. Merfolk "kicker-bounce" is sometimes just super fun, because the opponent has zero ways for response. But itīs not a dogma - try both ways :-)
    Fair enough. The reason why I ask is that I prefer the Recruiter version yet people at my LGS think that the BUG version is more consistent and since you said you played both, I wanted to see what your opinion was.

  3. #2103

    Re: [Deck] Aluren

    I would say, Quickling, Arctic merfolk and Man'o'war ... all have their up and downs :)

    At the moment I try 1 arctic and 1 man'o'war , because arctic is harder to counter and man o war can also remove hate or a martit lage :)

  4. #2104

    Re: [Deck] Aluren

    I don't understand playing only 1 copy of Arctic/Dreamstalker plus 1 Manowar.
    Manowar is a 'better' card because it can interact with the opponent. The problem with Manowar is that when you are comboing off, if you try to target Recruiter with it your opponent can kill the targeted recruiter in response to fizzle your combo.

    So traditionally list have played multiple Merfolk/Dreamstalker to avoid this, but:
    1. Play Recruiter, find Recruiter
    2. Play Recruiter, find Stalker (or Merfolk, Quickling)
    3. Play Stalker, return Recruiter
    4. Play Recruiter

    If you have no more copies of Stalker/Merfolk to search here then you have to find either the 1 Manowar (that FFreak is also playing) or directly search for Cavern Harpy.
    If you search Manowar and play that then your opponent will kill whatever you target with Manowar in response to the etb trigger, so the combo is fizzled.
    If you search for Harpy instead, then when you cast Harpy your opponent will kill Stalker/Merfolk in response, combo is fizzled.

    So why only play 1 Arctic/Stalker in addition to 1x Manowar? Stalker/Arctic/Quickling are not good cards outside of the combo and when you only have access to 1 copy they don't give you any additional options/protection within the combo that you don't already have just from playing 1x Manowar

  5. #2105

    Re: [Deck] Aluren

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    I don't understand playing only 1 copy of Arctic/Dreamstalker plus 1 Manowar.
    Manowar is a 'better' card because it can interact with the opponent. The problem with Manowar is that when you are comboing off, if you try to target Recruiter with it your opponent can kill the targeted recruiter in response to fizzle your combo.
    Just a question, why is 1 quickling better than 1 man'o'war. Ok 1 arctic merfolk thats best I see :) But whats the difference between wuickling and man ?

  6. #2106

    Re: [Deck] Aluren

    Quote Originally Posted by FFreak View Post
    Just a question, why is 1 quickling better than 1 man'o'war. Ok 1 arctic merfolk thats best I see :) But whats the difference between wuickling and man ?
    Consider the two types of bounce-creature
    1) Target bouncer (I.e. Manowar)
    2) No-target bouncer (Quickling, Merfolk, Stalker- I don't think there is an important difference between these 3, they are all roughly interchangeable)

    OPTION 1:
    Play 1 Target-Bouncer and 0 No-target bouncer: The combo loses to 1 removal spell

    OPTION 2:
    Play 1 Target-Bouncer AND 1 No-target bouncer: The combo still loses to 1 removal spell

    OPTION 3:
    Play 2 (or more) No-Target bouncer: The combo doesn't lose to 1 removal spell anymore

    Option 1 is appealing because you get to play as few copies of bad cards in your deck as possible. (Surely extra copies of Baleful Strix, Shardless, Coiling Oracle, etc etc are better outside of the combo than Quickling or Arctic Merfolk, and Manowar is better than the No-target bouncers because it can interact with the opponent's board)
    Option 3 is appealing because you get to make your combo better against removal spells.
    Option 2 doesn't achieve either of these things and therefore doesn't make any sense.

  7. #2107

    Re: [Deck] Aluren

    Ok I get that point. But mid combo it realy doesnt matter if I play quickling or man o war.

    And shure you are right that it can be a problem if I use man over 2nd quicklig / merfolk, but it also can reward me against some decks. Lets say against marit lage ^^

    And to be honest merfolk is the best of all, because opponent cant response to it, because its bounce is part of the casting cost.

  8. #2108
    Vatija Mlohavich
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    Re: [Deck] Aluren

    Quote Originally Posted by FFreak View Post
    Ok I get that point. But mid combo it realy doesnt matter if I play quickling or man o war.

    And shure you are right that it can be a problem if I use man over 2nd quicklig / merfolk, but it also can reward me against some decks. Lets say against marit lage ^^

    And to be honest merfolk is the best of all, because opponent cant response to it, because its bounce is part of the casting cost.
    Against Marit you can always board in stuff. Thing is that mostly you can FIZZLE because lacking a second part if the opp has a removal or solution (counter).

    Having options beats having a single out for a nieche deck.
    PTT (Formerly of MTT) - We make Champion

  9. #2109

    Re: [Deck] Aluren

    Hey guys. I'm interesting in throwing together an Aluren list so I can test out the deck at the LGS. I've never played this deck before, so I'll probably be losing a lot at the beginning. Can you guys take a look at my list and possibly make any suggestions?

    Maindeck

    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Bayou
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Tropical Island
    2 Swamp
    1 Forest
    1 Island

    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Baleful Strix
    3 Cavern Harpy
    2 Glint-Nest Crane
    4 Shardless Agent
    2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    2 Parasitic Strix

    4 Brainstorm
    2 Ponder
    3 Abrupt Decay
    3 Hymn to Tourarch
    3 Aluren
    4 Force of Will

    Sideboard

    2 Duress
    2 Fatal Push
    1 Diabolic Edict
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Dread of Night
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Liliana, the Last Hope
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Null Rod
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Relic of Progenitus

    The big part I'm unsure about is the sideboard, as it is sort of comprised of random cards that I had lying around that I just threw together. As far as my local meta goes, it's pretty standard, though there is a distinct lack of Storm and fast combo. I see reanimator occasionally (which is probably the fastest combo deck), but most other combo matchups are various Show and Tell decks. I would expect to play against at least one Delver and one Chalice deck pretty regularly, with various blue midrange decks making up the majority of the remaining slots. White decks are also less common than normal here. I don't think I've seen anybody play DnT, but I've seen Maverick and Stoneblade before.

    On thing I suspect I should probably add in the sideboard is Carpet of Flowers, as that is a card I see a lot of lists running, but I don't own that card yet.

    Also, one other thing I'm unsure about is what to run in the 20th land slot. Right now the last land is a second basic Swamp. Given the cards I am running, should that land be a different basic? Should it be a third Tropical Island? (I don't have access to a third Bayou or Underground Sea, but I can get the third Tropical easily). Maybe an 11th fetchland?

  10. #2110

    Re: [Deck] Aluren

    Quote Originally Posted by fapsik View Post
    Hi,

    I have been playing almost all possible versions of Aluren and for last few weeks I ended with this:


    4 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Arctic Merfolk
    4 Baleful Strix
    1 Cavern Harpy
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Parasitic Strix
    4 Recruiter of the Guard
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Cabal Therapy
    2 Thoughtseize
    4 Aluren
    2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    1 Quickling
    1 Birds of Paradise
    3 Abrupt Decay
    2 Sylvan Library
    1 Academy Rector

    1 Bayou
    2 Forest
    1 Island
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Polluted Delta
    1 Savannah
    1 Swamp
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Underground Sea
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Scrubland


    SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
    SB: 1 Faerie Macabre
    SB: 2 Diabolic Edict
    SB: 1 Carpet of Flowers
    SB: 1 Orzhov Pontiff
    SB: 2 Fatal Push
    SB: 1 Leyline of the Void
    SB: 1 Garruk Relentless
    SB: 1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    SB: 1 Containment Priest
    SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
    SB: 1 Reclamation Sage
    SB: 1 Duress


    I think this is a solid version, which has some constitency (Birds of Paradise, Sylvan Library, Academy Rector). The shell is quite usual except the Rector, which showed himself as a great angle of attacking you opponent (no Spell Pierce helps and he stops their Goyf or an Eldrazi guy for a while :-) two Libraries are must-have, because it gives you much more chance to win almost in every matchup.

    I don't say it's perfect, but it is decent. I have a huge issue with UR Delver and sometimes Czech Pile, but it is probably due to my bad skill of playing the deck. Any other decks are fine and I like to fight them.

    I am working on a primer, but it will be released first in my mother language (Czech). Then I will translate it into English.

    If you had any questions, be my guest.

    Nice list, I actually recognized it as very similar to a jeff hoogland list from last year: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/531031#paper . Mainly swapping out shardless agents / rec sage for sylvan library and Leovold. Definately an upgrade IMO. Very interested to see the primer as well, especially how to SB considering the need to maintain combo

  11. #2111

    Re: [Deck] Aluren

    Quote Originally Posted by RecklessReanimator View Post
    Nice list, I actually recognized it as very similar to a jeff hoogland list from last year: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/531031#paper . Mainly swapping out shardless agents / rec sage for sylvan library and Leovold. Definately an upgrade IMO. Very interested to see the primer as well, especially how to SB considering the need to maintain combo
    Exactly! The Hoogland's version was my initial idea to build this deck. I think that he made some very good choices (Birds of Paradise, Academy Rector), that made this deck little bit more vital.

    To your SB question. The poit is I do not believe it is necessary to maintain combo after sideboarding. The thread of the possibility to combo off is often enough to win. Your opponent usually leaves 2-3 Force of Will to protect himself/herself against combo and you take 2 Aluren and 1 Recruiter out to switch towards more fair grindy BUG deck where the FoW is much worse...so that's one of my ideas, definitely not of my original origin ;)

  12. #2112

    Re: [Deck] Aluren

    When side boarding how often to people side out their shardless agent? I'm making a small guide for my deck and I find myself cutting out quite a few numbers for sideboard cards and just doesn't seem right considering I'm getting rid of one of my combos.
    Last edited by PuppyWuppy; 10-31-2017 at 01:04 PM.

  13. #2113

    Re: [Deck] Aluren

    Quote Originally Posted by fapsik View Post
    Exactly! The Hoogland's version was my initial idea to build this deck. I think that he made some very good choices (Birds of Paradise, Academy Rector), that made this deck little bit more vital.

    To your SB question. The poit is I do not believe it is necessary to maintain combo after sideboarding. The thread of the possibility to combo off is often enough to win. Your opponent usually leaves 2-3 Force of Will to protect himself/herself against combo and you take 2 Aluren and 1 Recruiter out to switch towards more fair grindy BUG deck where the FoW is much worse...so that's one of my ideas, definitely not of my original origin ;)
    Same here, I decided to build Aluren after seeing his deck/stream. Unfortunately, after the top ban and meta shifted he felt deck was not good anymore and essentially abandoned it. On positive side helped investing in cards before the recent
    reserved list buyouts.

    The complex combo aside with recruiter list the other element that seems hard to gauge is when/if to play the other combo cards without aluren. Also how much to prioritize playing leovold if have in hand (I'm more aware of its ban worthy shenanigans in EDH hehe).

    Btw what is Garruk Relentless for? And is it being picked largely for its flip -1 ability?

  14. #2114

    Re: [Deck] Aluren

    Quote Originally Posted by RecklessReanimator View Post
    Same here, I decided to build Aluren after seeing his deck/stream. Unfortunately, after the top ban and meta shifted he felt deck was not good anymore and essentially abandoned it. On positive side helped investing in cards before the recent
    reserved list buyouts.

    The complex combo aside with recruiter list the other element that seems hard to gauge is when/if to play the other combo cards without aluren. Also how much to prioritize playing leovold if have in hand (I'm more aware of its ban worthy shenanigans in EDH hehe).

    Btw what is Garruk Relentless for? And is it being picked largely for its flip -1 ability?
    I think Garruk Relentless is brought in against control and long grindy match ups. At least that's what I gathered from looking at past posts.

  15. #2115
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    Re: [Deck] Aluren

    Thanks for the hard work but I think the Thread needs a bit more work to make it good enough.

    First the starting Post seems to be more like a story of a single Player than an introduction to the Deck. Look at other threads and you have decent amount of information about the Deck but not in this one.

    Second the mentioned Matchups listed Decks don't even exist anymore and there is very much more information needed.

    Third I would appreciate more Information about the different Deck types (Imperial Recruiter, Recruiter of the Guard and the BUG Version). Maybe it makes sense, that some experienced players like Cartesian create a new thread especially for the BUG Version.

  16. #2116

    Re: [Deck] Aluren

    I would like to contribute to a primer about the BUG version. I don't know if this thread or a new thread would be the better option.
    What do others think?

  17. #2117

    Re: [Deck] Aluren

    I played vs this deck for the first time ever in a league today. It's crazy!

  18. #2118

    Re: [Deck] Aluren

    Quote Originally Posted by Cartesian View Post
    I would like to contribute to a primer about the BUG version. I don't know if this thread or a new thread would be the better option.
    What do others think?

    I would love to see it. Im considering buying into the bug version.
    But i do have some imperial recruiters now twiddling their thumbs since my painter list is dead post top ban .

  19. #2119

    Re: [Deck] Aluren

    Quote Originally Posted by Cartesian View Post
    I would like to contribute to a primer about the BUG version. I don't know if this thread or a new thread would be the better option.
    What do others think?
    I think having separate primers for the BUG/Recruiter Aluren builds will be greatly beneficial. The current primer is need of a heavy update.

  20. #2120
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    Re: [Deck] Aluren

    Can someone explain why I see many Lists with 2 Hydroblast in the sb for a while yet? I my opinion it is not very playable with Shardless Agent in the Deck and if I want something against Red Cards we could play Chill as well. But for now I definitely do not see why Hydro/Blue Blast should be good in the Deck. Same goes with Flusterstorm over Mindbreak Trap, but this depends how players are sideboarding, because against Combo Decks I know that we can trim some Shardless Agents easily.

    For the Discard spell part in the Sideboard I often see either Thoughtseize or Cabal Therapy and Collective Brutality sometimes. What are your experiences with these Cards.

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