Page 5 of 118 FirstFirst 1234567891555105 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 2358

Thread: [Deck] Aluren

  1. #81
    Member

    Join Date

    Jul 2005
    Location

    Slovenia
    Posts

    54

    Re: [DTW] Aluren

    If you end up with "infinite" mana, you have effectively already won, making LW the very definition of win more.

    LW->IR chain is rather pointless as it does not solve the main problem of IR, namely it being uncastable without Aluren. In other words, why not just run IR main, even though it still sucks, it is at least better mid-combo.

    Those tricks with lands are cute, but ultimately too slow and cumbersome. Why not just win instead?

  2. #82

    Re: [DTW] Aluren

    Quote Originally Posted by Vetinari View Post
    If you end up with "infinite" mana, you have effectively already won, making LW the very definition of win more.

    LW->IR chain is rather pointless as it does not solve the main problem of IR, namely it being uncastable without Aluren. In other words, why not just run IR main, even though it still sucks, it is at least better mid-combo.

    Those tricks with lands are cute, but ultimately too slow and cumbersome. Why not just win instead?
    You don't need to hard cast Imperial Recruiter after a Living Wish, the deck would never Living Wish for Imperial Recruiter with out an Aluren.

    It's not cute, it's the difference between living and losing against Empty the Warrens and other aggro and turning the deck into two card combo instead of four card combo.

  3. #83
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2004
    Location

    Jamestown, IN
    Posts

    106

    Re: [DTW] Aluren

    I'm sorry but I'm still not seeing the genuine merit in Living Wish. If you have Aluren down you should be winning, not casting Living Wish. Also, you aren't cutting down on the number of cards to combo. You still need Cavern Harpy and Raven Familiar. So instead of having Cavern Harpy, Raven Familiar, and Aluren. You now need Living Wish -> what you need, Imperial Recruiter -> what you need, and Aluren.

    Running a bad card in a deck because you are afraid of one card seems terrible. You are fearing something that you shouldn't fear. Its not like this deck is defenseless. You have Force of Will and Cabal Therapy which help. In games two and three, you get even more pieces of hate for the decks that run Warrens which are Belcher and TES. You are coming up with a very narrow situation (Turn 1 Warrens) to rationalize the inclusion of this card. It seems like tech but I believe the card to be the danger of cool things. I can't see including this card because I believe it worsens so many other match-ups (ex. Goblins).

  4. #84
    The King of Lockjobs
    Peter_Rotten's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2003
    Location

    Middle of Nowhere, NY
    Posts

    1,214

    Re: [DTW] Aluren

    From the opening post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Toad
    Back then, our list still had Extended stuff such as Living Wish, but these got cut soon after, because we didn't want to bastardize our sideboard with poor cards. Also, Living Wish's speed is a liability when facing Goblins, since you hardly want to waste your turn 2 doing nothing but a Living Wish while being smashed by a Goblin Lackey.
    LW is simply unneeded.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cavius The Great View Post
    Germany seems to find me influential. Have you ever Googled "Nourishing Lich"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihil Credo View Post
    No, Peter_Rotten, you are the problems.

  5. #85

    Re: [DTW] Aluren

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter_Rotten View Post
    From the opening post:

    LW is simply unneeded.
    Toad posted that in 2005, and I'm certain he wasn't using a SB Imperial Recruiter or concerning himself with non-High Tide combo.

    @IT

    Aluren and Living Wish is a two card combo, Living Wish tutors for Imperial Recruiter, after Aluren resolves, Imperial Recruiter tutors for Man o' War, Man o' War returns Imperial Recruiter to hand, Imperial Recruiter tutors for Cavern Harpy, Cavern Harpy returns Man o' War to hand, Man o' War returns Imperial Recruiter to hand, Imperial Recruiter tutors for Raven Familiar etc.

  6. #86
    Member

    Join Date

    Jul 2005
    Location

    Slovenia
    Posts

    54

    Re: [DTW] Aluren

    You don't seem to grasp the fact that LW->IR after Aluren resolves is strictly worse (you need 2 more mana and drop down to sorcery speed) than simply having IR main. It is not LW that makes for a "2" card combo, but IR.

    Tabernacle is an inadequate solution to your problem as it does not solve for ETW for 8+ on the draw. For sideboarded games we already have a superior solution in Deed compared to hoping the Enemy doesn't have enough mana and/or rituals to push the remaining damage through.

    For the rest (e.g. wishing for utility creatures) Toad's analysis still stands.

  7. #87

    Re: [DTW] Aluren

    Quote Originally Posted by Vetinari View Post
    You don't seem to grasp the fact that LW->IR after Aluren resolves is strictly worse (you need 2 more mana and drop down to sorcery speed) than simply having IR main. It is not LW that makes for a "2" card combo, but IR.

    Tabernacle is an inadequate solution to your problem as it does not solve for ETW for 8+ on the draw. For sideboarded games we already have a superior solution in Deed compared to hoping the Enemy doesn't have enough mana and/or rituals to push the remaining damage through.

    For the rest (e.g. wishing for utility creatures) Toad's analysis still stands.
    Both points are illogical,

    No one is casting Living Wish for Imperial Recruiter after resolving an Aluren, people are casting Living Wish for Imperial Recruiter on turn three and then casting Aluren on turn 4.

    Living Wish for The Tabernacle at Prednell Vale is an inadequate solution, but Pernicious Deed is an adequate solution? Both cards resolve on turn 3, so the affect on Empty the Warrens is identical.

    Drawing into the mana to push the damage thru' is some serious luck on their part, and regardless, Pernicious Deed isn't an answer to this problem at all in the MD.

    I'm just not seeing how Chain of Vapor and Chord of Calling are better than Living Wish; sure Living Wish is slower, but it's game winning.

  8. #88
    Utterly ViLe
    Cait_Sith's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2006
    Posts

    1,601

    Re: [DTW] Aluren

    Quote Originally Posted by BreathWeapon View Post
    Living Wish for The Tabernacle at Prednell Vale is an inadequate solution, but Pernicious Deed is an adequate solution? Both cards resolve on turn 3, so the affect on Empty the Warrens is identical
    No, the affect is totally different. Play Deed, kill board. Play Tabernacle, hope they don't have mana out. Often there is a good chance the EtW tokens will have smashed your face at least once, so if they have 2-3 mana sitting there those tokens can go all the way if you aren't careful. Deed at least ends the problem NOW and can sweep away artifact mana they have sitting around.
    Quote Originally Posted by frolll View Post
    It is not like any other penises, though...
    It's a penis drawn by Leonard friggin' Da Vinci; which pretty much owns our penises.
    Team Multi-Grain - We're wholesome.

  9. #89
    Member

    Join Date

    Jul 2005
    Location

    Slovenia
    Posts

    54

    Re: [DTW] Aluren

    Quote Originally Posted by BreathWeapon View Post
    Both points are illogical,

    No one is casting Living Wish for Imperial Recruiter after resolving an Aluren,
    You really should make up your mind:
    Quote Originally Posted by BreathWeapon
    the deck would never Living Wish for Imperial Recruiter with out an Aluren
    Quote Originally Posted by BreathWeapon
    Aluren and Living Wish is a two card combo, Living Wish tutors for Imperial Recruiter, after Aluren resolves

  10. #90

    Re: [DTW] Aluren

    Yo, I'm pretty new to this deck, and I'd really like to play it, but I have NO IDEA how to sideboard. COuld somebody write up a list with the relevant matchups with the non LW board?
    The E.P.I.C. Syndicate: I mean, if they play a lullaby for babies they should at least play the Monster Mash when somebody dies.
    Quote Originally Posted by herbig View Post
    If I see you in NY/I'll send you an invite/You gon' need a pass/That's the code that we live by.

  11. #91
    You meet the nicest people on a Honda
    Obfuscate Freely's Avatar
    Join Date

    Dec 2003
    Location

    Fredericksburg, Va
    Posts

    1,411

    Re: [DTW] Aluren

    Quote Originally Posted by lonelybaritone View Post
    Yo, I'm pretty new to this deck, and I'd really like to play it, but I have NO IDEA how to sideboard. COuld somebody write up a list with the relevant matchups with the non LW board?
    First, you should read this article, in which Toad explains how to sideboard against the major archetypes.

    Also, note that the list in that article is more up to date than the list at the beginning of this thread; the changes are as follows:

    MD
    -1 Chord of Calling
    -1 Wall of Blossoms

    +1 Man-o-War
    +1 Force of Will

    SB
    -1 Force of Will
    -1 Hydroblast
    -2 Mystic Remora

    +1 Wall of Blossoms
    +1 Loaming Shaman
    +2 Divert

    I have been using this exact maindeck, and a very similar sideboard. Based on my own experiences, as well as what Toad suggested, this is roughly how I board:

    Goblins
    -4 Force of Will
    -1-3 Cabal Therapy (I will leave 1 or 2 in if I suspect they are boarding Krosan Grip, or maybe Disenchant)

    +4/5 Blasts (depending on how many I have)
    +1 Wall of Blossoms
    +1/2 Pernicious Deed (you'll really only want these if they bring in permanent-based hate)

    Most Goblin players won't bring in Chalices, since they have to be set at 2 or 3 to impact the combo, but be aware that Chalice at 1 does stop the Blasts and Chains (as well as Brainstorm and Therapy). I suppose that Chalice at 1 backed up by a Pyrostatic Pillar would be bad times (you'd need to have boarded in the Deeds), but I've never seen it happen.

    Basically, the Blasts and Wall give you lots of answers to Lackey and let you buy plenty of time to assemble the combo and go off. If they signal Krosan Grip (it'll be pretty obvious if a Goblin player is holding 2G open every turn), just wait them out until you draw a Therapy, can Intuition for a Therapy, or until you just have 8 mana and two Alurens to play in the same turn.

    ********
    -1 Cavern Harpy
    -1 Man-o-War
    -1 Forest

    +2 Pernicious Deed
    +1 Wall of Blossoms

    As Toad says, you just focus on playing control here. His sideboarding plan is fine.

    Solidarity
    -1 Forest
    -1 Wall of Blossoms

    +1 Cabal Therapy
    +1 Loaming Shaman

    This matchup is difficult unless you draw a Therapy within the first couple of turns, but the Loaming Shaman is very nice to have if you ever manage to resolve an Aluren.

    Speaking generally, a Forest can come out against anything without mana denial, and a Man-o-War can come out against anything without creatures. A Cavern Harpy can come out against anything you won't mind going into the late game with (other control decks, mostly).

    The Therapy comes in against combo, and any control match you can fit it in against. The Wall comes in against anything it can slow down. Pernicious Deed comes in anytime you need extra answers to hate or when it just wrecks the opponent (against Hanni Fish, for example).

    The rest depends a lot on how you build the rest of your sideboard. The Vineyards and Diverts that Toad suggests are fairly narrow (aimed at Deadguy Ale), so I can't say I recommend them today. If you have a specific match you're having trouble sideboarding for, let me know your sideboard, and I can tell you what I'd try.
    Quote Originally Posted by nitewolf9
    I can show up whenever I vomit off my hangover and get rid of the passed out females who's naked bodies will be sprawled out all over my condo. Oh wait, I'm engaged. FUCK.

    Well in that case I can be there at like 2 then, I guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by IAmTheBestEver View Post
    I built my car with my bare hands. It has 32 engines and 17 gas pedals so I can go extra-turbo fast. I sold it for a million dollars and then stole it from the guy using my super computer that can hack into any car in the world as long as I built it. Now I speed down the highway listening to Bruce Springsteen at max volume and flipping off other drivers.

    What are regrets?

  12. #92

    Re: [DTW] Aluren

    Quote Originally Posted by Vetinari View Post
    You really should make up your mind:
    I thought this was obvious but,

    1) Correct
    2) No one is casting Living Wish for Imperial Recruiter with out Aluren (in hand)
    3) It's a comma splice. It should be Living Wish tutors for Imperial Recruiter and pass. Cast Aluren, and then after Aluren resolves cast Imperial Recruiter etc.

    You didn't seem to understand the interaction, so I was just explaining it in full.

  13. #93

    Re: [DTW] Aluren

    Quote Originally Posted by kirdape3 View Post
    Actually, I'm saying that the deck is only FOR good players, since they themselves won't lose games with it.

    This deck is to allow the maximum abuse of superior skill over an opponent.

    If you're that much better than the other guy, why play a simpler deck when you can make him do all sorts of stupid things with a deck that you know and he doesn't? Look at Karsten's deck from Worlds this year. It's by FAR the hardest deck to pilot at maximal efficiency, but it also leads his opponents down all sorts of wrong plays.

    actually TES would win that award, and where are any of the matchups against TES?


    it seems like TES beats this pretty well, being faster, and more powerful.

  14. #94
    Member

    Join Date

    Oct 2003
    Location

    Rochester, NY
    Posts

    1,315

    Re: [DTW] Aluren

    That post that you just quoted is now (looks at calendar) 17 months old. TES simply didn't exist yet, as Empty the Warrens (or for that matter Guildpact IIRC) weren't legal.

  15. #95
    *sigh* I can't think of anything...

    Join Date

    Nov 2006
    Posts

    121

    Re: [DTW] Aluren

    Quote Originally Posted by dragon_demon1 View Post
    actually TES would win that award, and where are any of the matchups against TES?


    it seems like TES beats this pretty well, being faster, and more powerful.
    I won't get into a "how hard is it to play over this deck" argument because nothing good is probably going to come out of it, but I can assure you that this deck is NOT easy to play. One thing about TES is that Aluren not only runs FoW which really hurts but it also runs Cabal Therapy. The TES - Aluren matchup isn't as bad as you may think.

    Toad's list is a CONTROL deck. It shouldn't be considered combo and it shouldn't be compared to it - it should be compared to other control decks.
    WHAT? No, just no.

  16. #96
    Member
    Mr.T's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2003
    Location

    Bridgeport, NY
    Posts

    58

    Re: [DTW] Aluren

    The Aluren-TES match is fairly even. I have played against Bryant himself with aluren and aluren is currently in the favor at 6-4. You have to keep a fairly solid hand against TES or you instantly lose, either Force open hand or therapy. The first therapy should be on LED as it does slow them just long enough for you to try and set up, followed with turn 2 wall and flashback on therapy. Without Led it makes it harder for the deck to generate the mana to cast Diminishing returns off Burning wish.

  17. #97
    Member
    Shriekmaw's Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2006
    Location

    Nashville, TN
    Posts

    623

    Re: [DTW] Aluren

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.T View Post
    The Aluren-TES match is fairly even. I have played against Bryant himself with aluren and aluren is currently in the favor at 6-4. You have to keep a fairly solid hand against TES or you instantly lose, either Force open hand or therapy. The first therapy should be on LED as it does slow them just long enough for you to try and set up, followed with turn 2 wall and flashback on therapy. Without Led it makes it harder for the deck to generate the mana to cast Diminishing returns off Burning wish.

    I was wondering if anyone has tested the Aluren versus Hulk Flash for the upcoming GP? It seems like to be a poor matchup in game 1 at least with only cabal therapy and force of will for protection. I guess it does improve after board as you get access to disrupt and possibly stifle in the board.

    Out of all the current combo decks in the Legacy format, I believe Aluren does have the best shot at beating Hulk Flash, just because of the colors the deck is based around.
    ~Shriek~

  18. #98
    Poxlol
    tylerwylie's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2007
    Location

    Champaign, IL
    Posts

    39

    Re: [DTW] Aluren

    Hi, I'm trying to build Aluren right now, and I want to know if there's an affordable alternative to Imperial Recruiter, or any different builds that don't run a 35 dollar card x 4. Is there anything that can compare to his effect?

  19. #99
    Affinity and Beyond!
    kabal's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2005
    Location

    GA
    Posts

    482

    Re: [DTW] Aluren

    Quote Originally Posted by tylerwylie View Post
    Hi, I'm trying to build Aluren right now, and I want to know if there's an affordable alternative to Imperial Recruiter, or any different builds that don't run a 35 dollar card x 4. Is there anything that can compare to his effect?
    Here is a build that was played this year at the second Mana Leak open, which does not run Recruiter. Still a high dollar build, due to the dual land requirement

    7th Place
    Aluren
    Alix Hatfield (ObfuscateFreely)

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    4 Aluren
    4 Raven Familiar
    3 Cavern Harpy
    3 Man-o-War
    3 Intuition
    3 Cabal Therapy
    4 Wall of Roots
    3 Wall of Blossoms
    2 Chain of Vapor
    1 Spike Feeder
    1 Eternal Witness

    4 Tropical Island
    4 Bayou
    3 Wooded Foothills
    2 Windswept Heath
    2 Polluted Delta
    5 Island
    1 Forest

    Sideboard
    3 Disrupt
    2 Blue Elemental Blast
    2 Hydroblast
    3 Pernicious Deed
    1 Cabal Therapy
    1 Wall of Blossoms
    1 Loaming Shaman
    2 Duress
    "Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun." --Ash

  20. #100
    Banned

    Join Date

    May 2007
    Location

    jersey
    Posts

    281

    Re: [DTW] Aluren

    Has the imperial recruiter list posted any good results? Also is there a best imperial recruiter list since i keep seeing a couple different lists and can't decide which is best.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)