[Deck] Aluren

[Sigar]

So I'm really interested in this deck since it seems both good and fun to play. My question for now would be, what deck list is the best? Some deck lists contain the Imperial Recruiter and some the Raven - any new techs lately?

[honz]

In regards to counter-top problems. It has been my expierience, that if you see counter-top (and have to let it resolve), your going to have to wait as long as possible. You lead off with a wall followed by a man-o-war (or other 3cc), followed by another 2cc. This forces him to tap-out from the top. Once he is tapped out, drop cabals like crazy (recur them too); this should force him to put top ontop of library. Once the 1cc spell is ontop, you can go about your buisness (since your win-con doesnt require a 1cc spell). It takes a decent hand, but a couple brainstorms, and some thinking ahead should do the trick. However, if at all possible, don't let him resolve a top in the first place (counter-balance isnt as bad).

As far as a deck-list goes, essentially the best one is the one the first post suggest for GP lille. Here it is for reference:

// Mana Base
1 Island
2 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Polluted Delta
4 Bayou
4 Tropical Island
5 Forest
// Combo cards
1 Eternal Witness
1 Spike Feeder
2 Man-o'-War
3 Cavern Harpy
4 Raven Familiar
4 Aluren
// Control
2 Chain of Vapor
3 Force of Will
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Wall of Blossoms
4 Wall of Roots
// Draw and Tutors
1 Chord of Calling
3 Intuition
4 Brainstorm


Most people have done these changes:
-1 chord of calling
-1 polluted delta
-1 wall of blossoms
+1 force of will
+1 Man-o-war
+1 windswept heath (maybe this is just my change)

Also, some people have gone to (but it is kinda a meta-call):
-1 FoW
+1 Eternal witness



As far as new tech, Dream Stalker has some possabilities (in the man-o-war spot). Man-o-war might bounce their creatures, but stalker can block them, which is even better. Also, stalker bounces any permanent; you can bounce a land if you missed your land drop, or bounce aluren if it gets targeted...etc. I haven't tested it yet, but it seems way better than man-o-war. However, man-o-war can do some nice tricks if aluren is not in play (like abuse the shit out of summoning sickness). It is something to consider...

There is a new article down at SCG about "innovator aluren, the best deck in legacy" or some such BS. It uses imperial recruiter, which does not belong in the deck. Here is that list:

2 Forest
1 Island
4 Force of Will
1 Etched Oracle
2 Eternal Witness
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Wall of Roots
4 Brainstorm
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Cavern Harpy
1 Spike Feeder
4 Aluren
4 Intuition
1 Dream Stalker
2 Deep Analysis
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Taiga
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Ghitu Slinger
1 Man-o'-War



The recruiter builds are weak, at best. This one splashes red, so you could hard-cast recruiter if you had the right hand. Im not sure how optimized this list is, but is one of the better recruiter builds. I (and many others) think the build without recruiter is better, but feel free to try both and see how you like them.

[outsideangel]

I think a small number of Recruiters is just fine, but I also think splashing red just to play them is somewhat silly. Dropping a couple of copies of Cavern Harpy for a couple of Recruiters works out okay.

You can play Aluren + Recruiter as a more vulnerable two-card combo (because instant-speed removal will disrupt it) or just wait until you've drawn either the Familiar or Harpy and then use Recruiter to find the missing piece and go off normally. It lets you be a little more flexible about when you can combo off, and the added speed is helpful against other combo decks since you're often under a lot of pressure and they won't be able to stop you. I imagine that against removal-light disruption decks it can help you recover from discard more quickly as well, giving you something of an 'oops, I win' factor off of the topdeck, but I haven't tested this extensively.

The price is, of course, that unless you splash the fourth color (not the best choice, I think) Recruiter is dead outside of the combo, being unable to do the tricks that Harpy could. Essentially, playing Recruiter like this allows you more flexibility in regards to the combo element but less flexibility in regards to the control element. I'd go with whatever you feel is best for your metagame.

[C.P.]

I've been testing the deck recently, and was wondering about few things.

How good is Intuition in the deck, compared to Lim dul's Vault? Is there a reason why LDV is not played in the deck? Also, what about confidant SB?

Also, How do you deal with Belcher or TES?

[Eldariel]

I've been testing the deck recently, and was wondering about few things.

How good is Intuition in the deck, compared to Lim dul's Vault? Is there a reason why LDV is not played in the deck? Also, what about confidant SB?

One of the great things about Intuition is that if it resolves, you can grab 3 Cabal Therapies against decks trying to hinder you with countermagic and rip their hand apart with your utility-creatures you don't especially need after their effect (Wall of Blossom, Wall of Roots, Man-O'-War, Raven Familiar, etc.). Also, not losing in terms of handsize is of course beneficial, but really, the Intuition for Therapies is a backbreaker. You can actually force them to discard 5+ cards worth of business with it, which means that they're forced to counter every Intuition you attempt, meaning you've got a very cheap and powerful instant-speed threat.

Confidant ain't horrible and could indeed work to counteract Discard and LD since decks running those aren't generally running too much cheap point-removal. It's dead midcombo, which hurts, but it can help you recover from early barrage of LD and discard and is cheap, so it definitely looks like a solid anti-Black slot. Quite certainly better than Toad's plan of 'the deck sucks so nobody plays it'. Then again, they WILL kill it if they've got removal, since no other creature in your deck actually presents a credible threat they need to deal with, so it might be somewhat vulnerable. But yea, if you find yourself with some excess sideboard slots, he's just fine.

Also, How do you deal with Belcher or TES?

The reason the deck really wants to run those Force of Wills. Also puts Therapy to a good use. Just try to stop them from going off too early and rip their hand apart given an opportunity, and if they Warrens early, you still have the Turbo-Aluren to possibly race them as they usually can't kill you before turn 3.

[Sigar]

What is Aluren's best answer to Vial Affinity and Combo decks (besides cabal therapy)?

[C.P.]

What is Aluren's best answer to Vial Affinity and Combo decks (besides cabal therapy)?

On Vial Affinity, the Deed. Deed with other things to buy time makes the matchup not too hard.

[Maveric78f]

Chain of vapor is not so bad neither...

Null rod could fit into the sideboard too as it improves a lot against storm decks which the deck fails to beat.

[Lego]

Slay played Aluren yesterday in Western Mass to a Top 8 finish. I'm sure he'll share a bit about his list and the tournament if you ask, but I know he played Lim-Dul's Vault, and as far as I saw, it was stellar all day. I definitely recommend it, although I'm not sure what he cut for it. I know he only had 7 walls main. He also lamented not having the 4th Harpy.

[Sigar]

I only run 1 cavern harpy atm. My only problem is pitching it to fow and then ending up without win condition. 2 just seems too much, since it's dead if you don't combo off. Thoughts?

What about EE over Deed?

[Lego]

I only run 1 cavern harpy atm. My only problem is pitching it to fow and then ending up without win condition. 2 just seems too much, since it's dead if you don't combo off. Thoughts?

You absolutely need Cavern Harpy to combo off. It's what allows the combo to work, and in conjunction with Raven Familiar, it allows you to find the rest of the combo. With 1 Harpy, you will way too often be left with situations where you have Raven Familiar and Aluren, but can't combo off for lack of a Harpy. After Aluren, Cavern Harpy is the most important card in the deck.

[Toad]

After Aluren, Cavern Harpy is the most important card in the deck.

Cavern Harpy is actually the worst card in the deck, since it is the only one that does nothing until you are planning to win.

Raven Familiar and Man'O-War are both much better than Cavern Harpy. I would run 1 Cavern Harpy if I could, because that is all you want to see. Nevertheless, since you could find yourself in situations where you need to pitch it to Force of Will, it is safer to run at least 2, which is what I have at the moment. It is quite a necessary evil, unfortunately.

What about EE over Deed?

Pernicious Deed wipes everything, including 4CC Cards if needed (Humility for example). It is much more versatile than Engineered Explosives. Being able to kill Mongoose and Tarmogoyf or Werebear at once is also a big bonus. If you want more SB cards against B/W Confident and all the Fish variants running rampant, Massacre is very good.

[Maveric78f]

The worst card in the deck is aluren. Harpie is very good in long term plan as a blocker and as a beater. Moreover it can be used to recur manowar and ravens in your builds and coiling oracle in my build (which will become as good as the walls of blossom if the domination of threshold is confirmed). It's not completely useless with no aluren in play.

[Sigar]

Another question is, what draw spells to run in Aluren?

Raven Familiar is simply not enough. I see most people run Deep Analysis, which is a great card, but I think it's too slow. I want to be able to draw cards early on, so I can establish a decent hand at turn 3-5.

Any thoughts on this matter?

[Maveric78f]

usually you play :
3/4*intuition
3/4*wall of blossom
4*brainstorm
1/4*raven
0/4*coiling oracle

As for myself, I use respectively top the list 3, 3, 4, 1, 3.

[Sigar]

Why Coiling Oracle over Raven?

Oracle seems hopeless to me. Even wall of blossoms is better, due to the fact that it's a better blocker, it's easier to cast and it doesn't reveal the card you draw. The only upside about oracle is the land trick, but to me this card doesn't belong in Aluren.dec.

About the missing draw spell, I am thinking either:
1) Compulsive Research
2) Deep Analysis
or
3) Telling Time

[Slay]

IMHO, the only correct number for Harpies is 4. Aluren is fundamentally a bad deck. It plays low amounts of disruption, a three-card combo, some minimal search, and a whole lotta dead or semi-dead cards. The deck wins by being a control-combo deck, which in general is an extremely powerful archetype, and by having a nigh-undisruptable combo when going off. However, the format is getting faster, much faster, and your turn 2 Wall of Blossoms looks pretty damn cute against a turn 3 swinging 4/5 Tarmogoyf. Or, for that matter, against 8 1/1s on the first turn.

There's a real urge when playing this deck to take out combo pieces and put in other things, under the guise of 'optimization'. I think this is wrong. The ability to combo off as soon as possible and have the most chance to succeed is of much more importance than it was when Aluren Top32'd Lille, where the greatest threat was a 1/1 on turn 1, or maybe a couple of 3/3s on turn 4. I lost at least 1 game(in the Top4, no less), and maybe 2 or 3, based on my trying to combo off(with lethal damage coming down the next turn) without a Harpy, and striking out. Chain of Vapor couldn't even help me, because I'd have to combo off well before I wanted.

It's a silly mistake to play the deck like a control deck, in this atmosphere. You used to be able to get away with playing like a control deck for 5-8 turns until you had to win, but now you have to revert to being a combo deck much quicker. And while it feels manly to say "Oh yeah, I play Aluren with ONLY ONE Cavern Harpy" and have the ladies go nuts over you, how do you think it'll feel when you're halfway through getting your combo on and you realize that you can't keep it up anymore? Pretty bad, that's for certain. Even if you have protection, you still can't get cocky, because it won't help you finish the job. Don't be a fool, play all your Cavern Harpies(unless you're spectacularly good at the game). I'm out of innuendos.
-Slay

[Sigar]

I believe the fool is the one who plays 4 cavern harpy - a truly dead card in the deck.

Yes, 1 seems tuff, but it really isn't. There's plenty of ways to get this little beast. I am thinking of adding 1 more only because I so often pitch it to FoW.

[Slay]

I believe the fool is the one who plays 4 cavern harpy - a truly dead card in the deck.

Yes, 1 seems tuff, but it really isn't. There's plenty of ways to get this little beast. I am thinking of adding 1 more only because I so often pitch it to FoW.

Of course there's plenty of ways to get cavern harpy. But they suck, are slow, and require lots of mana. Which you don't have, usually. Taking out vital combo pieces just because they're "dead" goes against the fundamental principle of combo, which I am arguing is the direction this deck needs to take.
-Slay

[shteev]

Of course there's plenty of ways to get cavern harpy. But they suck, are slow, and require lots of mana. Which you don't have, usually. Taking out vital combo pieces just because they're "dead" goes against the fundamental principle of combo, which I am arguing is the direction this deck needs to take.
-Slay

Slay - What do you think of the Imperial Recruiter version? The library search allows it to play less dead cards, and it's a 2 card combo instead of a 3 card one, making it much easier to get all the pieces in your hand.

I'm kind of a greenhorn at playing the Aluren deck, I admit, and currently the Recruiter version seems much stronger to me... but I'm willing to learn :)