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Thread: Legacy Deckbuilding Challenge - The B/R List

  1. #1
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    Legacy Deckbuilding Challenge - The B/R List

    Hey all.

    People many times have commented on a card on the Banned/Restricted list being safe to unban due to power level. Well, I'm curious what decks could you make with now-banned cards, and would they hold up in the format today?

    I'd like to propose a deckbuilding challenge by, for a moment, pretending the B/R list was rolled back to 04/05. I'd like to see what some of you can do with the cards still on there, and see if they're decent enough to compete in competitive Legacy in 2010/2011.

    First off, some rules:

    1) The Banned list for this particular deckbuilding challenge is as follows:

    * Amulet of Quoz
    * Ancestral Recall
    * Balance
    * Black Lotus
    * Bronze Tablet
    *Channel
    * Chaos Orb
    * Contract from Below
    * Darkpact
    * Demonic Attorney
    * Demonic Consultation
    * Demonic Tutor
    * Falling Star
    * Fastbond
    * Flash
    * Imperial Seal
    * Jeweled Bird
    * Mana Crypt
    * Mana Vault
    * Memory Jar
    * Mox Emerald
    * Mox Jet
    * Mox Pearl
    * Mox Ruby
    * Mox Sapphire
    * Necropotence
    * Oath of Druids
    * Rebirth
    * Shahrazad
    * Sol Ring
    * Strip Mine
    * Tempest Efreet
    * Time Vault
    * Time Walk
    * Timetwister
    * Timmerian Fiends
    * Tinker
    * Tolarian Academy
    * Vampiric Tutor
    * Wheel of Fortune
    * Windfall
    * Yawgmoth's Bargain
    * Yawgmoth's Will

    2) The cards unbanned from the current list are as follows:

    Bazaar of Baghdad
    Black Vise
    Earthcraft
    Frantic Search
    Goblin Recruiter
    Gush
    Hermit Druid
    Land Tax
    Library of Alexandria
    Mana Drain
    Mind Twist
    Mind's Desire
    Mishra's Workshop
    Mystical Tutor
    Skullclamp
    Survival of the Fittest
    Worldgorger Dragon

    3) Try to build decks with one card that's on the current banned list to show off its power, or to show its weakness in today's metagame. Some mixing (ex. Library of Alexandria and Mana Drain in a Landstill shell could be built, but I'd rather you stick to just Drain or just Library).

    4) Cards removed from the list that we're trying out can be used with 4 copies, as if it would be unrestricted and unbanned.

    5) The decks must be designed to be piloted against the Legacy metagame, not between each other. ex. Don't use one banned card to make a deck that hates out another one for that specific purpose.

    6) Have fun! This is for brainstorming and showing why certain cards are on the list, and why some should be taken off. When you post a list, do some explaining and tell us about any testing!


    Good luck, and have fun!

    -Matt
    Last edited by sdematt; 12-29-2010 at 03:38 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Legacy Deckbuilding Challenge - The B/R List

    That'd be interesting... MUD/Stax would actually be consistent, I could play Bazaar dredge, Tide with Frantic Search and Spiral? See which is truly faster, Survival-Vine or Food Chain goblins...

    This could be a fun test, though I have a feeling it will make me bitter and miss old 1.5 a lot more.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Legacy Deckbuilding Challenge - The B/R List

    Bazaar really need not apply. LED-Bazaar Dredge will win every turn 1 w/o dedicated hate.

    4 Bazaar of Baghdad
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Fatestitcher

    etc
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  4. #4
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    Re: Legacy Deckbuilding Challenge - The B/R List

    Then build it and show me. That's what this is all about.

    This is also the first of a few planned deckbuilding challenges, I'm hoping. Depending on how this one goes, I'll post another, and I'm thinking more people will find it a tad more recent ;)

    -Matt

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    Re: Legacy Deckbuilding Challenge - The B/R List

    Bazaar dredge would be an almost direct port of the vintage list. Most vintage decks pack 6 dedicated slots in their sideboard just for this matchup, and these are decks packing power. It would be format warping to say the least.

    Likewise, Mishra's Workshop would enable legacy MUD. Again, it would be format warping and completely ridiculous. No thanks. A black lotus every turn isn't fair in a format like legacy.

  6. #6
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    Re: Legacy Deckbuilding Challenge - The B/R List

    4 Bazaar of Baghdad
    4 City of Brass
    4 Gemstone Mine

    3 Fatestitcher
    1 Flame-Kin Zealot
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Golgari Thug
    4 Ichorid
    4 Narcomoeba
    1 Sadistic Hypnotist
    1 Sphinx of Lost Truths
    4 Stinkweed Imp

    4 Bridge from Below
    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Deep Analysis
    3 Dread Return
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Serum Powder

    http://www.classicquarter.com/decks/...ecklistID=2019
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    Re: Legacy Deckbuilding Challenge - The B/R List

    Quote Originally Posted by wcm8 View Post
    Likewise, Mishra's Workshop would enable legacy MUD. Again, it would be format warping and completely ridiculous. No thanks. A black lotus every turn isn't fair in a format like legacy.
    Personally, i'd be fine with this. But I loved MUD back in the 1.5 days and would love to crush dreams by being able to play the deck again.
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  8. #8

    Re: Legacy Deckbuilding Challenge - The B/R List

    This format would be a train wreck, I'm sorry. I can't think of any strategy even remotely close to the power level of 4x Trinisphere, 4x Workshop, or 4x Bazaar, 4x LED.
    Curious how I became a Magic writer? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onR9Y...eature=channel

  9. #9
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    Re: Legacy Deckbuilding Challenge - The B/R List

    I'm not saying all of these are legal at the same time. I'm saying make a deck with one of the cards listed and post a list, to show what cards are weak enough to come off and which are strong enough to stay on. This is what we're trying to see. I mean, Workshop and Trinisphere would be really good, so let's see a decklist. It's fine if it's really good, then we know it needs to stay on the Banned list. I'm more interested in seeing development of weaker cards on the list, or if, for example, Worldgorger combo is still viable. Testing old decks deemed too powerful 5+ years ago against today's metagame, or development of old banned cards with new cards that have come out.

    -Matt

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    Re: Legacy Deckbuilding Challenge - The B/R List

    Wtf?

    Vintage MUD w/o moxen? Hardcore!
    Vintage Dredge + 4 LED? Insane!

    You throw 2 pieces that define vintage into legacy and suggest keeping all Counter-strategies like tinker, will or oath banned?
    What do you expect to happen other than those 2 staples dominate everything with ported vintage lists?

    There were many threads on the Board about which cards are Save to come off. This one offers nothing new aside from the call to create and post decklists with cards that maybe someday or never become legal. I can't see any use for that...

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    Re: Legacy Deckbuilding Challenge - The B/R List

    I'll post the Parfait deck that I stoped working on once I get home. (Land Tax for those you don't know)

    I wish we can use two cards from the list. Combo Elves could definitely use Earthcraft and Skullclamp together.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
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    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
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    Re: Legacy Deckbuilding Challenge - The B/R List

    6 Forest
    4 Windswept Heath
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Bayou
    1 Savannah
    1 Pendellhaven

    8 Llanowar Elves
    4 Birchlore Ranger
    4 Heritage Druid
    4 Nettle Sentinel
    3 Wirewood Symbiote
    4 Elvish Visionary
    2 Wirewood Hivemaster
    1 Regal Force
    1 Mirror Entity
    1 Eternal Witness

    4 Glimpse of Nature
    4 Skullclamp
    4 Summonner's Pact

    Sideboard:
    X Thoughtseize
    X Burrenton Forge-Tender

    I made this list in 5 minutes, but looks solid for me. Not that good like it was on Extended, but still...

  13. #13
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    Re: Legacy Deckbuilding Challenge - The B/R List

    Bazzar is no mere joke. People don't really realize how retarded dumb that card is in dredge. Matt Elias' Turtle Dredge with Leyline of Sanctity makes every hate card aside Lelyines,Jailers and Needles useless(Relic's 2nd activation or Planar Void i guess count too)
    You can actually play 4 LEDS and 4 Bazaars in Classic online.

    Workshops with 4 3balls is just Good Game sir.
    These lists can be directly ported over from Vintage with minimal or no losses in dredge's case.

    The rest are very interesting and I will be thinking of what lists i could come up with for Drains+Mind Twists and Clamps weeeeeeeeeeeee.
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    Re: Legacy Deckbuilding Challenge - The B/R List

    I am surprised that no one has posted Vengevival yet...
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

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    Re: Legacy Deckbuilding Challenge - The B/R List

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    I am surprised that no one has posted Vengevival yet...
    Wouldn't that be a bit cheap and weak in a deckbuilding challenge? The idea is to come up with something new, not copy the deck to beat from five days ago.

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    Re: Legacy Deckbuilding Challenge - The B/R List

    Maybe cuz vengevival is a joke compared to MUD or Dredge?

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    Re: Legacy Deckbuilding Challenge - The B/R List

    2 Ad Nauseam
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    4 Mystical Tutor
    4 Infernal Tutor
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Chrome Mox
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Ponder
    2 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Duress
    2 Hurkyl's Recall
    2 Island
    1 Swamp
    4 Underground Sea
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Misty Rainforest

    SB: 1 City of Traitors
    SB: 2 Tundra
    SB: 1 Rebuild
    SB: 4 Serenity
    SB: 4 Yixlid Jailer
    SB: 1 Ravenous Trap
    SB: 1 Chain of Vapor
    SB: 1 Ill-Gotten Gains

    Edit: improved sideboard. Decks that aren't MUD or Dredge don't matter.

    Edit 2: read the rules. I guess if only Mystical is legal, you cut the maindeck MUD hate ala one of these:

    Then you end up playing one of these (maindeck changes noted):

    Maindeck: -2 Hurkyl's Recall, +2 Thoughtseize (focused on Merfolk)

    4 Xantid Swarm
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Chain of Vapor
    1 Slaughter Pact
    2 Hurkyl's Recall
    3 Krosan Grip
    1 Reverent Silence
    1 Ill-Gotten Gains

    Maindeck: -2 H.Recall, -2 Ponder, +2 Thoughtseize, +2 Sensei's Divining Top (focused on CB)

    4 Doomsday
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    1 Shelldock Isle
    1 Wipe Away
    4 Chain of Vapor
    2 Thoughtseize
    1 Meditate
    1 Ill-Gotten Gains
    BZK! - Storm Boards

    Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
    Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.

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    Re: Legacy Deckbuilding Challenge - The B/R List

    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post

    2) The cards unbanned from the current list are as follows:

    Bazaar of Baghdad
    Black Vise
    Earthcraft
    Frantic Search
    Goblin Recruiter
    Gush
    Hermit Druid
    Land Tax
    Library of Alexandria
    Mana Drain
    Mind Twist
    Mind's Desire
    Mishra's Workshop
    Skullclamp
    Survival of the Fittest
    Worldgorger Dragon
    This actually is pretty interesting, but Workshop and Bazaar doesn't need to be tested. An almost straight port from Vintage is possible. With the difference you can actually play 4 leds in Dredge and 4 Trini in Workshop. And that mean workshop won't ever be unbanned since it's really "unfun" to play against a t1 Trini. Neither will Bazaar with Vintage Dredge being pretty much retarded.

    I'll take up the challenge. Trying something with Desire and Clamp probably.

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    Re: Legacy Deckbuilding Challenge - The B/R List

    Quote Originally Posted by emidln View Post
    2 Ad Nauseam
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    4 Mystical Tutor
    4 Infernal Tutor
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Chrome Mox
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Ponder
    2 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Duress
    2 Hurkyl's Recall
    2 Island
    1 Swamp
    4 Underground Sea
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Misty Rainforest

    SB: 1 City of Traitors
    SB: 2 Tundra
    SB: 1 Rebuild
    SB: 4 Serenity
    SB: 4 Yixlid Jailer
    SB: 1 Ravenous Trap
    SB: 1 Chain of Vapor
    SB: 1 Ill-Gotten Gains

    Edit: improved sideboard. Decks that aren't MUD or Dredge don't matter.

    Edit 2: read the rules. I guess if only Mystical is legal, you cut the maindeck MUD hate ala one of these:

    Then you end up playing one of these (maindeck changes noted):

    Maindeck: -2 Hurkyl's Recall, +2 Thoughtseize

    4 Xantid Swarm
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Chain of Vapor
    1 Slaughter Pact
    2 Hurkyl's Recall
    3 Krosan Grip
    1 Reverent Silence
    1 Ill-Gotten Gains

    Maindeck: -2 H.Recall, -2 Ponder, +2 Thoughtseize, +2 Sensei's Divining Top

    4 Doomsday
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    1 Shelldock Isle
    1 Wipe Away
    4 Chain of Vapor
    2 Thoughtseize
    1 Meditate
    1 Ill-Gotten Gains
    Mystical tutor is still banned in the hypotetical list.

  20. #20
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    Re: Legacy Deckbuilding Challenge - The B/R List

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    Wtf?

    Vintage MUD w/o moxen? Hardcore!
    Vintage Dredge + 4 LED? Insane!

    You throw 2 pieces that define vintage into legacy and suggest keeping all Counter-strategies like tinker, will or oath banned?
    What do you expect to happen other than those 2 staples dominate everything with ported vintage lists?

    There were many threads on the Board about which cards are Save to come off. This one offers nothing new aside from the call to create and post decklists with cards that maybe someday or never become legal. I can't see any use for that...
    Actually, i think there is more of a point to this than most others.

    Lots of threads that post up are just "would skullclamp be safe? i mean really, who would play skullclamp, elves?" or "who would play Mind's desire, no one, it's safe!"

    This, while to you may look like just unbanning 2 of the biggest pieces of vintage, is actually what the format looked like 6 years ago. With a few exceptions, he's giving us the Type 1.5 Banned list, and telling us to make the best decks we can with the current cardpool. That has a lot more interest and merit to me than suggesting 1 card at a time in a vaccum. Because it gives lots of toys, and strategies to go with.
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