How to begin ?

[Megadeus]

Yeah dredge is WAY more explosive with LEDs. I wouldnt build anything but LED dredge personally (if I were to build a dredge deck anyway). I think you are best off playing something monocolored that uses a lot of solid staples like Folk, Goblins, and D&T (though this is actually pretty expensive thanks to 4x Karakas). Either that or for fun try Nic Fit! You can build it budget for ~500 bucks probably

[Dan Turner]

It is sad that a budget deck is $500. I built solidarity and goblins for less then that when they were both DTB.

I would recommend to look at your play style and figure out what you like to play. Gets some games on MWS or in person with proxies and such. Find a deck that meats your play style and build a budget version at first and then build up. I would start with something like spiral tide/solidarity they are not the best decks but without candelabras/Force of will it should be within the lower range of legacy. Budget for a better card or 2 a month as you play. You will not win a lot starting out with a budget build but you will learn the deck inside and out and be able to make better choices. I recommend Solidarity because a lot of the expensive cards fit in perfectly with other decks such as merfolk etc in the case of FOW/Fetches.


I have a few players locally that play black/red goblins with shocklands it is not the best solution but it is a budget option since most of the shocks are pretty cheap atm. I run my elf/belcher deck with 2 stomping grounds I have the Taigas but no reason to use them since I don't actually play the lands most of the time. They are pretty much there just to improve my hits with Charbelcher. It is not the best deck to play tournament wise, but for our legacy/vintage group it works.

[mini1337s]

Locally, I'll normally recommend that a new player starts with Red Deck Wins, for a few reasons. It teaches the importance of timing, card quality, and card advantage, while remaining a fairly straightforward strategy. It also costs about $120 - $150 to build, so if you decide you don't enjoy the format, you aren't out much (it's easy to move for that price to).
It easily transitions into U/R Delver, where your major pickups are Force of Will (3-4), Wasteland, Zendikar fetches, and 3-4 Volcanic Islands (Roughly $800 worth of cards). U/R is nice because you now get to play a similar strategy, while adding control elements into your game.
U/R Delver can transition into Show and Tell variants from there (Show and Tell, Sneak Attack, "sol" lands, Griselbrands and Emrakul), RUG Delver (Trops and Goyf), Storm variants (Underground Sea and LED), etc.

[TheArchitect]

Dredge is still a good deck, however, its really hard to play well ESPECIALLY when your just getting into legacy. Half of the "skill" of dredge is knowing what deck your opponent is on and therefor the hate they will be bringing in and how you can play around it.


I would recommend either Elves or Burn.

Elves is still very powerful when build on a budget (mono green, only 1 cradle + crop rotations, etc.). Its explosive, and sometimes plays like an aggro deck, sometimes like a combo deck.

Burn is nice cause you can build a totally optimal list for 100$. However, most people find it very boring to play. However, its also really easy to slowly build into UR Delver burn, you only really need 2 Volcanic islands and fetchlands for it to work. Add Force of will when you can, however the deck doesn't really need FoW to be decent. Its only really there to help against combo so it is fine playing it for a while FoW-less. From UR Delver burn you can add tropical islands, wastelands, goyfs and build it into RUG Tempo as you get more staples/money. And then you have deck that has consistently been tier 1 and shares staples in common with a lot of other archtypes.

[Julian23]

My advice, join the Elves! It's one of the very best decks in the format + has the best cost/power ratio of all the Tier1 decks by far. There's a reason, most Elves decks are foil: they're incredibly cheap even in foil.

[DrJones]

Play a fine-tuned affinity deck. It's very cheap to get all the cards (except maybe Mox Opal) and you'll crush the current legacy meta even if you are the worst player in the universe. Etched Champion FTW!

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Instead of investing $400-600 in a budget deck that's not very good and never will be in all likelihood, and which contains few cards other decks use, I would say it's better to start developing a base of Legacy staples. Like, play Delver Burn with Steam Vents if you have to and work on piecing together a playset of Forces + some fetches, then pick up one Volc, then another, then a third, and then maybe look at adding white to build Patriot Act and so on.

If you want to play Legacy- actually play Legacy and not just play one given deck- you need to work on picking up the manabase, and probably Wastelands and Forces. Goyfs and Jaces too but this is a bad time to buy them I think.

[bfeingersh]

Seconded on this. I started playing legacy by borrowing a friend's ANT deck (turns out, you can't use LED to pay for the Infernal Tutor in your hand...) and then borrowed cards for Splinter Twin and actually did ok, then continued borrowing cards/decks until I could afford a real deck.

Making friends is crucial to being able to play legacy and have some fun switching things up in my experience.

Yeah, even as a person who has most of the stuff to play the format, I still regularly have to borrow cards. It's just unreasonable to own all 40 duals, plus playsets of wastelands, LEDs, goyfs, jaces, etc. I'd rather own some duals and all the tools to build a set of decks you enjoy (show and tell decks for me, because I am a terrible magic player and generally unlikeable person) and borrow things when you want to switch it up.

[SBGpinas]

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions !

As deck type - I probably dont want to play control as 1st deck so my decision is between aggro and combo. Problem is I like both, therefore my 1st thought was Dredge. I dont have to kill T1 with storm and I dont want to kill you at 18th turn with Snapcaster's 9th attack in a row. I really like explosiveness possibility like Dread Return into Flame-Kin or Matron-Matron-Piledriver kill. I dont have to do it and can play it slowly, but I really like possibilty to kill asap if I get opportunity to do it.

Therefore I have to ask you guys again - is Dredge really bad choice ? No Duals, no Fetch lands, nothing really expensive (non-LED version) and it seems pretty well fit to my playstyle.

And what about Goblins ? Are they able to make results ?

Anyway I really appreciate Merfolk suggestion, FoW is pretty good investment anytime I guess and deck looks also aggresive. Change explosiveness for countering is something I can do if it would be necessary for success :).

THX !

If you plan going with Dredge, I would highly suggest going with the Manaless variant. It's basically a version of Dredge that plays no lands except for the occasional Dakmor Salvage and/or Dryad Arbor. It is very competitive, even with Deathrite Shamans running about (any Dredge player knows that DRS isn't enough to stop them). It is also the version of Dredge that I would consider the most "unfair" because you play little to no spells, and you win. It does have a bad matchup vs. other Combo decks, but if your meta is not prepared for it, it's a great starter legacy deck that isn't that expensive.

Goblins are great in the right meta. Unfortunately, it doesn't have the best matchup against fair grindy decks like Jund. Still, I consider it to be one of the best aggro decks in Legacy. Wastelands and Rishadan Ports are kind of expensive though, so prepare to shell out a bit, but not too much to turn you off the format completely.

Merfolk is actually what people consider to be one of the better entry-level decks in the format. It has good matchups against combo, decent matchups against any form of Blue control, and doesn't lose automatically against fair, grindy decks. It is a bit more expensive than the other two I mentioned, because of FoW and Mutavault.

Finally, if you're really strapped for cash and just want a pick-up-and-play deck without breaking the bank, then Burn is your best option. It's not the greatest deck in today's meta, but the thing with Burn is, due to its linear design, it can win matchups it has no business winning.

Any of the above 4 are solid choices for someone starting out in Legacy. I wouldn't suggest Elves as a starter deck since it does take a while to master the deck because of the myriad of interactions available within - that, and playing it without Gaea's Cradle severely lowers its power.

Good luck with your choice!

[HammafistRoob]

Im not sure how being timewalked by ANY discard spell is unfair in your opinion. Also your basically playing Yugioh since you can't really afford to mulligan with the deck. On top of that you lose the game to any permanent hate(RiP, Grafcage, Leyline of the Void). IMHO manaless dredge is pretty terrible

[SBGpinas]

Im not sure how being timewalked by ANY discard spell is unfair in your opinion.

Hence why I encapsulated the word "unfair" in quotation marks. I mean it in the loosest sense.

Also your basically playing Yugioh since you can't really afford to mulligan with the deck.

Hence why you optimize lists to ensure that there's a Dredger in the opener Majority of the time.

Really, if you're going to make the argument that you have to not be unlucky to play the deck, then make that argument with every deck as every deck requires some degree of luck to not get creamed outright.

On top of that you lose the game to any permanent hate(RiP, Grafcage, Leyline of the Void).

Which Dredge deck doesn't fold to permanent hate?

Besides, if you actually read about the deck, it runs anti-GY hate in the sb.

IMHO manaless dredge is pretty terrible

We're all entitled to our own opinions, aren't we?

I am merely giving answers to his questions. To be perfectly honest, Any combo Dredge not running LED is pretty terrible as well, but I don't see you pointing that out.

I can make the argument that LED is one of the cornerstones of the deck that makes Combo Dredge a legitimate deck in today's meta, but that's not the point here. The point is that he was looking for a decent entry-level deck for starting Legacy without having to spend an arm and a leg on cards like LED, and all I did was provide the suggestion that Manaless Dredge is a viable option.

If you're going to go out and call ideas terrible, I might as well point out the following:

• Combo Dredge without LED, while playable, is terrible
• Elves without Gaea's Cradle, while playable, is terrible
• Merfolk without Mutavaults and Wastelands, while playable, is terrible
• Goblins without Wastelands and Rishadan Ports, while playable, is terrible

Here we have a deck that doesn't need to cut corners to be affordable, and I am offering it as a suggestion as an entry-level deck. Now do tell me why you think that is such a bad idea that you have to spend the time to single out my suggestion and reply with "IMHO manaless dredge is pretty terrible"?

[cogitoergosum]

Just make sure to use Ebay and resources like MTGS Sales forum to buy cards, you will save hundreds, if not $1000 dollars compared to buying retail.

[HammafistRoob]

1)Hence why I encapsulated the word "unfair" in quotation marks. I mean it in the loosest sense.

2)Hence why you optimize lists to ensure that there's a Dredger in the opener Majority of the time.
Really, if you're going to make the argument that you have to not be unlucky to play the deck, then make that argument with every deck as every deck requires some degree of luck to not get creamed outright.

3)Which Dredge deck doesn't fold to permanent hate?

4)Besides, if you actually read about the deck, it runs anti-GY hate in the sb.

5)I am merely giving answers to his questions. To be perfectly honest, Any combo Dredge not running LED is pretty terrible as well, but I don't see you pointing that out.

6)Here we have a deck that doesn't need to cut corners to be affordable, and I am offering it as a suggestion as an entry-level deck. Now do tell me why you think that is such a bad idea that you have to spend the time to single out my suggestion and reply with "IMHO manaless dredge is pretty terrible"?

1) Fair enough sir.

2)I don't understand your argument here. Every other deck has this thing you can do before the game called mulliganing. I didn't mention luck anywhere, just pure facts.

3) One that plays 11 or 12 1cc answers as well as 13-15 lands. You also have the ability to just race some hate(RiP and DRshaman) SPOILER!!!: LED Dredge

4) But is it anywhere near consistent? After siding they have a maximum 7 lands. You don't need to be a mathematics major to see gaping flaws in this sideboard strategy. In case you don't, I'll lay it out for you. Your opening hand MUST contain the following to combat a turn 1 hate piece(assuming you won game one and are on the draw)-
*1 of your 7 lands(iffy)
*1 of your 16 dredgers(easily doable, I agree with you here)
*1 of your 7 anti-hate pieces(iffy)

Now that you got all deees you still have to have some type of business and hope you don't dredge terribly. It does happen sometimes and it sucks so bad to lose a game after you have an amazing opening hand.

Don't get me wrong, it is a playable deck no doubt, especially if you're aiming for a low budget. The main problem I see here is the deck takes a huge understanding of the format. Perhaps, more importantly, knowing your specific metagame. Now in most cases people build on a budget because they're just breaking into the format. Burn is more straightforward and less likely to be a bad metagame choice. Manaless dredge is a high risk, high reward metagame deck.

5) We're all entitled to our own opinions aren't we? I didn't "point out" the fact that any version of combo dredge without LED is terrible because noone brought it up. But since you want to know so bad I will state my opinion. Any version of combo dredge in general is sub-optimal with or without LED. Something close to a quadlazer list is the way to go if you can't read a metagame before a tourney. If you can read a metagame pre tourney you will most likely come to the same conclusion anyways ,hence why I would choose it as the default.

6) Reread 4)

[luckme10]

Same advice now as 4 years ago.
Don't just collect singles.. start building a deck. If you don't know what deck:
1. start acquiring Force of Will and Wasteland to build Merfolk.
3. Build cheap side of merfolk, use proxies on tournaments if they let you.
4. Try black splash merfolk in green heavy meta, people love to see perish, back to basics, chill, etc.
5. Find merfolks flaws.
6. Work your way over to multicolored blue deck with core of Force of Will, Wasteland.
7. Find out that other deck that you are building still isn't as good as your cheap merfolk deck until it starts being worth the merfolk deck three times over.
8. Last item of trade: trade/sell aether vial and mutavaults from merfolk to finish building the blue based dual land deck..
If anything, this keeps your avenues open to seeing which multicolored blue deck you like after you've gotten used to how merfolk plays against these decks.

Q:How is this possible?

A:Here's the merfolk timeline:
-Tarmogoyf is printed
-Landstill the last great pillar of control based legacy fades to tarmogoyf and Canadian Thresh.
-Counterbalance Top makes the world unfun for thresh
-Merfolk vials around counterbalance top
-AnT dominates europe
-mystical tutor banned, Merfolk prevalent America wonders why.
-Merfolk eats AnT, combo doesn't like cursecatcher, never learn to play around daze.
-Zoo finishes Goblins, punishes Merfolk
-Wizard prints Vengevine. No one cares
-Caleb breaks format. Wizard bans survival of fitness, feels bad, prints green sun zenith, mental misstep.
-Widespread panic ensues about mental misstep creating a metagame where most of the top decks are blue.
-wizard bans mental misstep... Metagame essentially remains the same...
-With green sun zenith, Maverick emerges as DTB.
-Canadian "tempo" thresh returns with delver and tiago
-Maverick kills Zoo
-Maverick and Canada team up to end Merfolks long standing position as a top deck
-luckme10 buys 4 temporal mastery's at $30 each out of pure fear. Prices plummet. Luckme10 becomes discouraged with Magic.
-??
-luckme10 pokes head out to learn Landtax gets unbanned, now owes friend a steak dinner for losing a long withstanding bet.
-??
-Jund emerges in legacy seriously...wtf.
-Jund eats Maverick.
-Reincarnations of Jund, Cawblade, and Delver compete over who's the biggest douche, while people can't stop patting themselves on the back for the wonderful diverse metagame of legacy?!?
-luckme10 goes back into hibernation.

Present Day:
People start to realize that Merfolk is better equipped to beat Jund than it was with Maverick.
-Merfolk, as mono blue deck with aether vial, is essentially designed to use misdirection and divert to combat prominent discard and "uncounterable" removal and overall burn...
-People realize misdirecting a Hymm is usually game and is crippling for other discard.
-Merfolk hates lightning bolt, but divert and misdirection don't.
-merfolk still preys on greedy manabases.


In summary:
Love it or hate it, what the ak 47 is to the firearm community, merfolk was to legacy. Merfolk never took the elegant path, it was gritty, consistent and just reliable. It prayed on the unfair(AnT) and unfun(Counterbalance Top) decks, affordable for the poor, and gave them a fighting chance against the wealthy.

Whether people loved or hated merfolk, they realized that as long as an economical deck like merfolk existed as a Deck to beat, newer players had a platform to acquire some legacy staples and have a reliable deck to beat, play some good games, and all the while, transitioning into their more expensive dream decks. In a time of growth, Legacy was considered more inviting to play with Merfolk around.

Except Merfolk is still comparably cheap, and still offers that smooth transition to more expensive decks. Perhaps most importantly, in a backyard consisting of standard's greatest bullies, (->Cawblade, Jund) Merfolk is quietly seeing a resurgence, right, now. Merfolk is starting to reposition itself to prey on those decks with greedy landbases, doesn't rely on graveyard abuse, has historically favorable matchups against landstill style control, bug, combo so guess what...

Which deck is back in the top 8 for the month of april?
http://www.tcdecks.net/metagame.php?...y&fecha=2013-4


...Merfolk.

[bfeingersh]

Haha, nice post luckme.

[GoSu Charlie]

1.) THX to all who gave me their time and advices ! TYVM !

2.) I tested a lot of Dredge, but will not play it. Main deck DRS and RiP is too annoying/scary. I like Goblins, but I dont feel em enough competitive. I cant play Elves - I have no real reason, but I just dont like em. Weird personal feeling. Merfolks seems pretty nice.

3.) I get offer from friend which can lend me nearly any Legacy deck/card (he miss only 4 Goys, and main parts of Sneak and Show + has 1 Karakas = no D&T). I can play anything from Jund, Esper, Dredge, U/W Miracle, Affinity, Merfolks ... just anything ... Probably dream start to Legacy, right :) ?

4.) I started like RUG Delver (Strasburg Wilson version). Cards like Wasteland, Fow, Daze, U/G + U/R value gonna have its value forever + I feel comfortable to play it. Problem is I cant start with it cuz 0 Goyfs, but who knows ... Modern Masters is nearly here ... ;)

5.) THX again for all advices, you helped me a lot guys ! GL in your games, thank you very much !

Charlie