[Deck] MonoU OmniTell

[Karhumies]

You need two things for the Pyromancer plan to be good:
-It must be hard to deploy your combo or your combo isn't great in the matchup.
-After sideboard, there won't be an opposing fast clock or removal/blockers to nullify Young Pyromancer.

Against control decks who focus on disrupting your combo via counters and/or discard without a significant board presence of their own it is a simple decision to bring them in to become your clock. Example deck: Pox

Against aggro and aggro-combo decks who focus on their own board swarm without a lot of meaningful interaction with you (other than occasionally hiding something from them with Brainstorm), it is a simple decision to not side them in. Example decks: Death & Taxes, Jund

Against fast glass cannon combo decks, it is a simple decision not to side them in. Too slow to be relevant. Example decks: Oops All Spells, Dredge, Belcher.

Against tempo strategies, it is tricky. Do you side the pyros in to provide chumpers until you have enough mana sources to play through their tax counters (or draw Boseiju, given that the opponent does not have Wasteland)? Example: Delver variants

Against slow and resilient combo decks, it is tricky. Do you bring in Pyro to be your clock while disrupting the opponent's combo for the win? Or do you rather try to punch through your own combo, forgetting about the Pyro plan? Example decks: ANT, TES

[kuroko16]

hi guys. as i said i have a 100 player tournament in Italy.

i have decided to play mono u version. Last time about 2 month ago i finished 6-2 with a classic list but this time i decide to change something.

i expect a lot of discard spell and wasteland so i decide to bring this list. I'm not sure about that.

what do you think?



2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn ( or 1 emrakul and 1 Enter the infinite )

8 Island
2 City of Traitors
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn


4 Omniscience
4 Brainstorm
3 Cunning Wish
4 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
1 Impulse
4 Spell Pierce
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
1 Flusterstorm
4 Show and Tell


SIDEBOARD
1 Wipe Away
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Flusterstorm
1 Intuition
1 Noxious Revival
1 Pact of Negation
1 Release the Ants
1 Mindbreak Trap ( not sure)
1 Sapphire Charm
1 Rapid Hybridization (not sure)
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Trickbind
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

maybe add 1 land in main is better. I did not have much time this deck. last month i play only the UR Shoota version

any advice?

[Cave]

i expect a lot of discard spell and wasteland so i decide to bring this list. I'm not sure about that.

You know very well that mana denial and discard spells are this deck's worst enemies.
You might consider bringing another deck for the tournament, especially now that everybody has acknowledged that 0/1-EtI-Omnitell is actually a good deck.
Everybody will be prepared for it. Insomma, sai come funziona in Italia

However, if you keep resolute in bringing the deck, I would say you should bring either monoU version or UB version (cuz wasteland+discard also calls hatebears).

Ur version is really good against mirror, miracles.
MonoU version is solid against wasteland & in general.
UB version is the best against hatebears & packs discard itself & can 100% finish the game instant-speed out of a cunning wish.

[Karhumies]

i expect a lot of discard spell
...
maybe add 1 land in main is better.

any advice?

19 lands main has been good for me.

Against targeted discard spells, you have SB options: Divert, Misdirection, Leyline of Sanctity.

Also, Flusterstorm > Mindbreak trap, especially because you can run 1-2 Flusterstorm in the main deck instead of Spell Pierce to save SB slots.

[Ogh!]

You know very well that mana denial and discard spells are this deck's worst enemies.

Actually, I consider all OmniTell versions that run at least 5 Islands and 7 fetch lands (i.e. almost all well-placing lists) to be pretty much mana denial-proof (in relation to most other decks in the format). Discard is another animal, though.

UB version is the best against hatebears & packs discard itself & can 100% finish the game instant-speed out of a cunning wish.

Many MonoU versions also tend to run Twincast instead of e.g. Impulse as a FF target which also allows you to "100% finish" the game with instant-speed (easy to see how, no explanation needed, I think). So that's not a USP of the UB lists.

[emidln]

Many MonoU versions also tend to run Twincast instead of e.g. Impulse as a FF target which also allows you to "100% finish" the game with instant-speed (easy to see how, no explanation needed, I think). So that's not a USP of the UB lists.

Split Decision seems better than Twincast if you're doing that.

[Ogh!]

Split Decision seems better than Twincast if you're doing that.

True. That card is superior. However small that bit of superiority may be.

[Cave]

Actually, I consider all OmniTell versions that run at least 5 Islands and 7 fetch lands (i.e. almost all well-placing lists) to be pretty much mana denial-proof (in relation to most other decks in the format). Discard is another animal, though.

And that's exactly what I wrote down immediately after the part you're quoting. You wanna be manadenial proof? Run monoU.
I run UB, and I assure that DnT will try the manadenial plan on you and it can be kinda constraining until you hit massacre or pithing needle.

Many MonoU versions also tend to run Twincast instead of e.g. Impulse as a FF target which also allows you to "100% finish" the game with instant-speed (easy to see how, no explanation needed, I think). So that's not a USP of the UB lists.

I don't see it as a really popular ("many") choice: maybe i need to watch more recent TOP8's but as far as I can remember, I saw that card maybe once. If I was to run monoU, i'd go for impulse myself. It's just a better card in that slot.

[Ogh!]

If I was to run monoU, i'd go for impulse myself. It's just a better card in that slot.

Would you mind elaborating on the process that led you to this conclusion?

[Cave]

Would you mind elaborating on the process that led you to this conclusion?

Alright hum.

a. It appears to me (but maybe it's just me) that this deck aims to resolve Show and Tell for Omniscience.
b. It also seems that, most of the time, when you drop the combo, you somehow win the game (from my experience in 2 months of playtest + 2 tournaments, I failed in 2 cases).
c. Point b happens because you can chain cantrips and tutors until you find a suitable way to finish AND
d. There are also very few ways to stop us from the point omniscience hits the ground. 90% of our losses come from us not being able to drop omniscience. Most importantly:
e. While it's not guaranteed that we win if we are able to SnT->Omniscience, it's guaranteed that we lose if we can't do it.

Therefore i conclude that

f. Being able to set up our combo one turn faster is better than being able to solve post-combo niche problems.
g. A card that is really useful pre combo and decent post combo is better than a card which is nigh-useless pre combo and decent to solve one (EtB triggers) very niche post combo issue.

Finally, even if they drop, say, oblivion ring with our SnT, you can always Wish-> FF -> BS+Impulse+Wish, cast impulse+BS and try to get a high cc on top, or another C.Wish.
On the contrary, you topdecking Twincast/Split Decisions while trying to set up for the combo can really, really slow you down. Impulse is much better.
Therefore i conclude Impulse is better than Twincast.

When playing UB, you can run Lim-Dûl's Vault, which not only helps you winning in response to nasty triggers, but also can set you up t2 for a nice t3 win.
I hope it helps.

[Ogh!]

a. It appears to me (but maybe it's just me) that this deck aims to resolve Show and Tell for Omniscience.

Thorough analysis and testing has led me to the same conclusion.

b. It also seems that, most of the time, when you drop the combo, you somehow win the game (from my experience in 2 months of playtest + 2 tournaments, I failed in 2 cases).

I found that casting Show and Tell and putting Omniscience into play gives me a higher win-percentage than dropping either Show and Tell or Omniscience or both cards. In the latter case, I usually get a warning and have to pick up the cards again; however, I admit that some opponents may concede when they see that you have the combo in your hand.

c. Point b happens because you can chain cantrips and tutors until you find a suitable way to finish AND
d. There are also very few ways to stop us from the point omniscience hits the ground. 90% of our losses come from us not being able to drop omniscience. Most importantly:
e. While it's not guaranteed that we win if we are able to SnT->Omniscience, it's guaranteed that we lose if we can't do it.

Brilliant!

f. Being able to set up our combo one turn faster is better than being able to solve post-combo niche problems.

I absolutely agree!

g. A card that is really useful pre combo and decent post combo is better than a card which is nigh-useless pre combo and decent to solve one (EtB triggers) very niche post combo issue.

Yes, yes!

The real question is: How useless is Twincast/Split Decision pre-Omniscience since it's usually better than Impulse after having resolved Omniscience (apart from the situation when you have only one - relevant - card in your hand after having resolved Omniscience. In that case Impulse is usually better)? Unfortunately, you haven't touched on that issue. I would like to point your attention to the fact that the rules allow you to copy your cantrips, your opponent's cantrips, counterspells, Hymn to Tourach, a lethal Banefire and other spells that may have a beneficial effect on the probability that you resolve Show and Tell (before your opponent kills you).

[Cave]

The real question is: How useless is Twincast/Split Decision pre-Omniscience since it's usually better than Impulse after having resolved Omniscience (apart from the situation when you have only one - relevant - card in your hand after having resolved Omniscience. In that case Impulse is usually better)? Unfortunately, you haven't touched on that issue.

Speaking of issues we haven't touched, I would like to point out that my sentence "Twincast is better than impulse post-combo" is in fact a bit inaccurate. Twincast is better post-combo if you Wish-> FF for it.

a. If you SnT->Omni and you remain with impulse in hand, you can usually win from there.
b. On the contrary, if your only card is Twincast, your life sucks

I would like to point your attention to the fact that the rules allow you to copy your cantrips, your opponent's cantrips, counterspells, Hymn to Tourach, a lethal Banefire and other spells that may have a beneficial effect on the probability that you resolve Show and Tell (before your opponent kills you).

1. Copying your cantrips turns your twincast into a cc2 cantrip, semi-sorcery speed and dependant on you actually having a cantrip to copy.

2. Copying your opponent cantrips. It totally sounds like a gameplan! Game 1, round 7 of swiss rounds, you get a hand with twincast: let's keep it and pray they aren't playing Death and Taxes, Goblin, Elves, 12 post, Affinity (edit: affinity has thoughtcast, lol ), Stompy, Dredge, Maverick, Jund, Junk or Mud so the card isn't totally useless!

3. Copying counterspells precombo: this scenario involves you casting a relevant spell (so it's probably a CC3, if you know what I mean ), them trying to counterspell, and you still having two more blue mana to Twincast. While it's not so unlikely to happen, it is really not what you get every game.
If you can cast relevant spell+twincast, it means that you can cast relevant spell+pay spell pierce, which already makes twincast useless 40% of the time.
Also, Twincasting a Flusterstorm will make you a sad panda.
So at best (when they FoW) you have a counterspell in hand, which is better than having impulse, but still far from optimal.

4. Copying Tourach: That's pretty decent, depending on the situation. You turn a 1x2 into a 3x3 which might be good or not.
Consider that it achieves nothing if they have some pressure on the board (and they usually do): the gamestate is enough for them to win in 2-3 turns and losing an extra card (3 instead of 2) is not helping you to solve that gamestate. If you have impulse, you hope for it not to be discarded and start diggin again.

5. Lethal Banefire: What?

While I appreciate Twincast's versatility, Impulse is better in the maindeck. All scenarios you can imagine involving you using Twincast pre-combo are luck-dependant and situation-dependant. Impulse does only one thing, but it does it better and with more consistency + the whole story about being able to set up the combo is better than being useful post combo.

Edit: P.S. One really good reason to play this deck is that it's fluid and elegant. I've been playing it since February, way before this whole Omnimania started.
Back then, everybody thought Sneak and Show to be stronger, but I refused to play a deck with 16 combo cards: too much variance, too many horrible first hands with 2-3 uncastable big fat guys.
So basically with Omnitell, you have 8 combo cards, only 2 finishers, and the rest is land, protection and dig spells: that's what makes the deck consistant. You dont want a 3rd card to shuffle away with brainstorm+fetch, and twincast to me is exactly THAT card since it achieves nothing on its own, much like Emrakul/EtI.

[Julian23]

Streaming the Legacy Daily Event with #OmniTell! Join us over at http://twitch.tv/itsJulian and watch me punt into Dig Through Time

[famdoola]

Speaking of issues we haven't touched, I would like to point out that my sentence "Twincast is better than impulse post-combo" is in fact a bit inaccurate. Twincast is better post-combo if you Wish-> FF for it.

a. If you SnT->Omni and you remain with impulse in hand, you can usually win from there.
b. On the contrary, if your only card is Twincast, your life sucks



1. Copying your cantrips turns your twincast into a cc2 cantrip, semi-sorcery speed and dependant on you actually having a cantrip to copy.

2. Copying your opponent cantrips. It totally sounds like a gameplan! Game 1, round 7 of swiss rounds, you get a hand with twincast: let's keep it and pray they aren't playing Death and Taxes, Goblin, Elves, 12 post, Affinity (edit: affinity has thoughtcast, lol ), Stompy, Dredge, Maverick, Jund, Junk or Mud so the card isn't totally useless!

3. Copying counterspells precombo: this scenario involves you casting a relevant spell (so it's probably a CC3, if you know what I mean ), them trying to counterspell, and you still having two more blue mana to Twincast. While it's not so unlikely to happen, it is really not what you get every game.
If you can cast relevant spell+twincast, it means that you can cast relevant spell+pay spell pierce, which already makes twincast useless 40% of the time.
Also, Twincasting a Flusterstorm will make you a sad panda.
So at best (when they FoW) you have a counterspell in hand, which is better than having impulse, but still far from optimal.

4. Copying Tourach: That's pretty decent, depending on the situation. You turn a 1x2 into a 3x3 which might be good or not.
Consider that it achieves nothing if they have some pressure on the board (and they usually do): the gamestate is enough for them to win in 2-3 turns and losing an extra card (3 instead of 2) is not helping you to solve that gamestate. If you have impulse, you hope for it not to be discarded and start diggin again.

5. Lethal Banefire: What?

While I appreciate Twincast's versatility, Impulse is better in the maindeck. All scenarios you can imagine involving you using Twincast pre-combo are luck-dependant and situation-dependant. Impulse does only one thing, but it does it better and with more consistency + the whole story about being able to set up the combo is better than being useful post combo.

Edit: P.S. One really good reason to play this deck is that it's fluid and elegant. I've been playing it since February, way before this whole Omnimania started.
Back then, everybody thought Sneak and Show to be stronger, but I refused to play a deck with 16 combo cards: too much variance, too many horrible first hands with 2-3 uncastable big fat guys.
So basically with Omnitell, you have 8 combo cards, only 2 finishers, and the rest is land, protection and dig spells: that's what makes the deck consistant. You dont want a 3rd card to shuffle away with brainstorm+fetch, and twincast to me is exactly THAT card since it achieves nothing on its own, much like Emrakul/EtI.

Yeah but you can also twincast a Lightning Bolt and Kill a Delver/Eidolon/Haters or your own DTT which then = UUUU look at top 14 cards and put 4 in your hand, and its generally at its weakest as an 8th counterspell - so to me it's worthy of the slot over impulse.

In my experience the 2 CMC slot goes Lim-Dul's Vault > Twincast > Impulse.

[Julian23]

I just finished uploading the Daily Event I played yesterday. You can check it out on YouTube Legacy Daily Event #7: OmniTell

[Lans89]

I finished 3th (4-0-1) yesterday evening in a 60 man Legacy event @ GP Utrecht. Lost some durdle game 1's lol, so it was quite exiting sometimes! Also had the chance to play the looooong weird mirror, 2-0 three minutes before the end of the round :P! This is my list:

Maindeck
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Omniscience

1 Impulse
3 Cunning Wish
4 Dig Through Time
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Flusterstorm

4 Preordain
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Show and Tell

1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
3 City of Traitors
2 Volcanic Island
5 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta

Sideboard
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Defense Grid
1 Through the Breach
1 Release the Ants
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Trickbind
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Sudden Shock
1 Wipe Away
1 Rushing River
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Surgical Extraction

I love to show a volcanic to some decks, and let them keep some removal for Pyromancers I don't play. Nice fotm! Sudden Shock was awesome all the time, split second ftw. I'm not sure about the Defense Grid side, but it's still good vs RUG, UR and Patriot. I do miss Noxious Revival, so might go back to that. I should probably cut 1 City of Traitors with this mana base, but still prefer it this way personally. If someone is wondering why I play 3 flusterstorms.. it's just amazing in most situations and helps vs faster combo decks ;)! Only miss Pierce vs CB, but with this build you have other things to deal with that.

[ryscott85]

Hi everyone! I'm just wondering if anyone has tested out using burning wish with a show and tell in the side (a la florin koch) as opposed to cunning wish. We already play red mana and you can get burning wish out a turn earlier. Thoughts?

[KobeBryan]

Hi everyone! I'm just wondering if anyone has tested out using burning wish with a show and tell in the side (a la florin koch) as opposed to cunning wish. We already play red mana and you can get burning wish out a turn earlier. Thoughts?

Yes burning wish build is out there somewhere.

[ryscott85]

Let me clarify the question. What is the advantage of using cunning wish over burning wish in the new(er) dig through time builds? It's my understanding that the concensus was to use the mono blue version over the u/r, u/b, u/b/r versions as it helped make the deck, "wasteland proof"(despite its sol lands) however; the "mono blue" version now plays Volcanic Islands anyway.

[JosephK]

Because Cunning wish is an instant. Post omniscience, you want to be able to counter reb/disenchant/trigger effects. With CWish you can go cantrip, then cunning wish to counter reb. With BWish you just go Burning wish, they reb omniscience you're screwed :).

Pre-Omniscience, it also synergies better with Dig (EOT into Big Turn).

EDIT : Also, Burning wish is worst vs Wasteland.