Same about Lim-Dûl's Vault.Originally Posted by Zooligan
Colorless is the new blue
http://ooh---shiny.blogspot.com
This version kinda looks like a variation of an old Cifka's one http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckd...p?DeckID=70346
Griselbrand! yes, I was really thinking about it in these days.
Nowadays anyone is ready to face Omniscience or Emrakul with "triggering abilities" permanents that will definitly mind fuck us in the end.
Also because Flusterstorm is so splashable that Even Eldrazi will give it a try sooner or later.
To have a 2U draw 7 cards is good enough to "waste" a SnT overall in a world of Noxious Revivals or whatever else.
At that point we have ti ask ourselves, though, isn't Sneak attack just better?
Uncounterable Cunning Wish EOT into uncounterable Through the breach into Emrakul or Griselbrand isn't it just stronger than the whole Omniscience plan?
testing material. Miracle would be so done with Boseiju, SnT --> Griselbrand.. StP give us 7 cards for free
Hey, what's your opinion of a single griselbrand maindeck? Over the 2nd or 3rd Emrakul for instance. He seems like a better creature to show and tell directly into play early, though possibly awkward if you're at a low life total.
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SnT into Inkwell Leviathan, also can be a good idea.
unbloackable against 90% of the meta and shroud.
If only it had Vigilance.. :(
sure at that point to add Entomb and Reanimate seems legit..
the problem is that everyone will play "bounce permanents" with SnT so to put directly on the BTF
Emrakul is the worst
Griselbrand nets you 7 cards at the price of 7 Life (debatable)
Inkwell will just stick but it has a 3 turn clock which are a lot,
If they stick Emrakul has a turn 1 clock and Griselbrand lifelinks you in safe zone
So..isn't just better to add a couple of Trickbinds or Toughtseize in the MD so to discard before the combo goes off?
another very good way to get rid of the "bouncing/removing permanents" (from now onwards, please let's agree on calling them"answers") is Sundial of the Infinite.
Trickbind possibly is just better. You have to hold it in hand before going off though else you'll never resolve your tutor
The power of Cunning Wish is being able to win at instant speed and be able to play around a lot of hate. Without it, you're dead in the water to a lot of simple CIP ability cards that your opponent will be dropping in with your Show and Tell. Cunning Wish is one of the biggest reasons for playing this deck. If you wanna play Sneak and Show, go ahead. This is not that.
Team Serious
1000% Serious
Seriously
In a world of Daze, Pierce, Blast, FoW, Thalia you are not winning anymore with Wish.
The only real target here is
SnT Omni (Trickbind backup) Emrakul.
This deck is great because it's capable of EOT Cunning Wish (wih Boseiju) into uncounterable Through the Breach into Emrakul or Griselbrand
All the rest is fancy
I'll try to remember to concede the next time my opponent drops Thalia off SnT. I honestly never considered that strategy before. I'll report back with my results!
/s
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
I'm very interested in the Ub build, but I have a couple questions after reading thru the thread from about page 110.
1. How is the sorcery-speed Massacre used out of the side? Cannot Cunning wish for it, so i assume you have to side it in and LDV for it, correct?
2. In post #2232 Dziga mentions some lines using Intuition. I assume these are post-sideboard lines siding in an Intuition for something. In what matchups does it come in and what do you take out for it?
3. What's the best way to handle Chalice on 1 out of the Eldrazi and other prison decks? Trying to Wish for Echoing Truth or Wipe Away on T2 or 3 seems way too slow.
4. Does anyone have any good video footage of the Ub version in action? The older links in the thread seem to no longer have the content behind them in place.
haha just saying Cunning Wish is a very strict way nowadays
Trust me, it's not worth talking to Poron. He's been dropping the average IQ of the Miracles thread for years.
With my UW Omniscience / Miracles deck, I've 4-0d 4 weeklies, gone 3-1 in another 2, and top 8'd a 1k. A friend has 3-1'd 3 times as well. Our total records with the deck are something like 45-12.
I'm not going to say it's broken, but I'm quite sure that it's better than the all-in combo Omniscience builds. 100% to play at Eternal Weekend.
Languages and dates for every set. For all you true pimps.
Hey Zooligan,
Yes, you side in the Massacre(s). I currently play 2xMassacre and 2xToxic Deluge in the side to deal with creature decks. Believe me, 2 Massacres are the real deal versus Death and Taxes (though it might seem overkill to bring 4 sorceries, I'm very satisfied with them right now).
I usually never side in Intuition (when I play it; it's a swingy card, it seems to be needed only when I'm not playing it). I only use it as a Cunning target to tutor for the combo card I'm lacking. I don't like this line of play especially, because is extra slow and you make yourself vulnerable to GY hate, and we currently play LDV to tutor for missing pieces.
The best solution is having the combo pieces already in hand. Anyway, the Chalice decks are a pain in the ***, because not only hinder our gameplan, but if we manage to play Show and Tell, they can stop us dead with a Trinishpere (even a TKS would be devastating). I am playing 1xEngineered Explosives in the sideboard, but this is not enough usually (a singleton is hard to find, even more if a CotV make impossible for us to play cantrips). It's a bad pairing for us and I fail to see how to make it better.
I would be interested in seeing that too! I was in the high tables during all the Top Series in Barcelona last september, but I managed to dodge the video coverage the whole tournament
Colorless is the new blue
http://ooh---shiny.blogspot.com
Hey really interested in this miracles-omnitell hybrid. I saw a list 5-0 the legacy league a while ago and it seems sweet.
What list are you playing? Is the combo a good addition to the miracles shell (and respectively the control elements to the combo shell)?
What MU does it improves or make worse?
I was considering the possibility of a transformational sideboard for the deck (into blue moon or UW control-ish with mentor &/or pyromancers) but it didnt really work (took too much space and diluted the gameplan a lot).
Also, on a different topic I've seen this list http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13750&d=281039&f=LE
5-0 the mtgo league twice with different pilots. It seems sweet to use pieces as a pseudo tutor and CA engine with the possibility of getting omni if you need it with noxious revival (also saw a list a while ago playing a white sorcery -cant remember the name doing:
3W: return all enchantments from your GY to play, to combo with pieces)
Has anyone tested with this kind of list?
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Grisel is counterable... Next.
You want instant speed, or uncounterable, depending on what you have in front of you. Some deck are unable to bounce an Omniscience, but are quite able to counter, some other are unable to deal at instant speed win but are able to bounce. It's actually rare to have a deck able to do both (Miracles is probably the only I can think about that is able to go the two lines of play).
Depending on the match, I will go either on Cunning Wish finisher, or Emrakul finisher, it's really depending on the deck you have in front of you actually. But for sure Emrakul is still a real thing. And, both can co-exists, against many deck I would say you want Emrakul for the first game (as it's unlikely they got a bounce at that moment), while second game you will prefer an instant speed win.
I've been playing a variant of UW Omnitell at the BOM this week end. It is a really strong build, starting with 4-0 and finishing with 4-5, because I was too sick to keep the concentration level after 1pm... I would say I could have top8 easily if I wasn't sick and stay focused. I face 3 of the top8 players, eliminating one of them, and in a better condition, could have elimitating a second one (but the third one on death and taxes was just ahead of me all the time).
PS: the white card is Replenish, a bomb for this deck
The list was as follow:
4 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
2 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitor
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters all
2 Tundra
4 Island
1 Plains
4 Show and Tell
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Cunning Wish
4 Omniscience
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Split Decision
1 Intuition
1 Rest in Peace
1 Energy Field
2 Terminus
1 Personal Tutor
4 Ponder
3 Enlightened Tutor
SB:
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Rest in Peace
1 Energy Field
1 Helm of Obedience
1 firemind's foresight
1 Release the Ants
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Terminus
1 Replenish
1 Trickbind
1 Echoing Truth
1 Flusterstorm
The matchups where:
Merfolk: 2-0
G1: omniscience on emrakul t3.
G2: I was playing a custom brew, with RiP/Energy Field. So G2 I side them in, playing energy field t4 or t5, RiP a turn later. Many turns later, I combo on omniscience, play cunning wish (get counter), vendilion clique resolve, removing emrakul and drawing ponder. Playing ponder, find cunning wish, game.
after talking with him, his hand when resolving RiP/Energy Field was vendilion, Phantasmal Image, 2x Warping wails OUCH...
Dark Depth: 2-0
G1: he could turn2 Marit lage, but at the moment to play crop rotation and put Urborg in play (with thespian and Dark Depth), he says "I draw" meaning he starts the turn and finish my end step, and, therefore, had a marit lage with summing sickness :D (it was a friend of mine so he didn't try to rollback, just "fuck, I messed all up"). I killed him a turn later... Strong misplay from him.
G2: Leyline of sanctify shut down half of his hand, ponder, ponder, combo t3.
4c Delver: 2-0 (on camera, he top8)
G1: start with a lots of lands. I play boseiju, I wanted to see if he play wasteland or not, to see how I can turn 2 or not (I got combo in hand turn 2 kill). He did, never draw another land during the whole game while I got plenty, so I could go off easily with a daze backup on turn 5 (I was really fearing to loose the counter war as he was drawing a lot with gitaxian probe. As there is no pressure I go off with two show and tell and a counterspell in my hand that all of them could be played the same turn).
G2: he kind of misplay, I was knowing the deck he was playing due to a lot of discard on G1 as he doesn't have any land. You can see it at 1:39:00:
https://www.twitch.tv/bazaar_of_moxen/v/96437952
When he gitaxian probe me, the brainstorm put back on top of library: 1x Replenish, 1x Daze (the top). Which means he didn't know I got a counter available, and a omniscience backup from GY. Quite a strong hand + 2 cards.
The misplay was this one: he could have let one open mana rather than playing ponder, making me think he may have spell pierce + backup FoW (it's very unlikely he got double FoW and spell pierce). Leaving one mana open could have delay the game as I couldn't know his hand... But he didn't, and has he play 2 blue cards, he means he probably have only one FoW backup at the best, that could be dealt with Daze. So I decide to go off.
At the end he got nothing
12 posts: 2-1
G1: I counter a Show and Tell from him, then ponder to get Emrakul in my hand. Next turn he show and tell again, resolving Emrakul for me, Primeval Titan for him. Tutoring karakas et Bojuka. I attack with emrakul leaving only Karakas on play. Karakas bump my emrakul.
Few turns later I go for Show and Tell + Omniscience and Emrakul, he resolves the newzilek without trigger so. I killed him.
G2: the deck fucked up, didn't draw any combo for a lot of turns, get killed after like 10 turns with a hard casted newzilek and a countered Show and Tell on Swan Song from him.
G3: I play RiP. Then I ponder on t3, found Show and Tell and Helm of Obedience, get Helm in my hand. I play show and tell with the boseiju, resoliving Helm with one open mana...
Elves: 0-2 (he top8)
G1: I go off turn 2, he plays the Reclamation Sage. As he got only one main deck, I was quite unlucky (I got emrakul in my hand not cunning wish).
G2: the same, still with the same reclamation Sage. The game continue, I misplay by not starting terminus (wich was on top of my library with sensei in play) when he resolves Green Sun Zenith resolving gaddock Teeg, I should have think about this but my mind wasn't great already. After Terminus, there was replenish (with my omniscience in GY from before), so it's a kind a huge double fuck for me.
But nonetheless, he was a really trained and good player, so he definitely deserves this win and the top8
Death and Taxes: 1-2 (he top8)
G1: t2 show and tell on omniscience and cunning wish finisher. Next.
G2: ethersworn canonist is a fucking pain for this deck... At the moment I can RiP/Helm, he put thalia with aether vial. Not enough mana anymore to win, meh - I never draw the show and tell combo on this one.
G3: bad deck draw, never got any lands, game finish soon without doing anything...
Infect: 0-2
G1: I would say it's a hard matchup, it goes fast, terminus is not enough, globally speaking he has mana to counter and continue tu pressure, it's quite difficult. He killed me easily, I try to resolve one show and tell but get countered (but it was that or I die so...).
G2: I'm in a bad situation again, I go off with Show and Tell + Omniscience but just brainstorm in hand... I give a try, didn't succeed. Killed next turn on berserk...
Reanimator: 0-2
G1: he turn 2 Griselbrand (classic endstep entomb...), I got no counter at that moment, and the combo didn't show up on time...
G2: RiP t2, I draw only lands after that, I don't know how many lands I got, but like 10 on play... I draw only cunning with and show and tell as the two non-land cards. When I finally got the combo, I was knowing that would be a pain in the ass to win (he got babyjace to filter a lot for many turns). Get killed on typespout tyrant + daze when resolving cunning wish...
That is probably a quite winnable match, but sometimes...
Nonetheless any deck resolving Typespout Tyrant you are probably dead if you don't have emrakul and trickbind in your hand...
Miracles: 0-2
G1: did a huge mistake by trying to go off too fast (I didn't wanted to face counterbalance...), I die on mentor.
G2: he got THE perfect hand: 2x pyroblast, 1x Surgical, 1x Fow + blue and sensei and a scalding tarn. No need to say nothing happen for me, get counter + surgical on show and tell, loose few turns later.
In the end:
The deck was tuned against discard and graveyard, I was expecting lots of delver and Dredger, didn't get wrong, even if I didn't face a single dredger, I've seen a lot, really a lot, but on other tables :D...
On purpose, I reduce Boseiju and counterwar to go more on GY hate and anti discard effect. I don't think it has change anything (they are both equals, when you increase quality of a matchup you reduce the other and vice versa.). Leyline of sanctify win me some games, so definitely a good choice, but debatable as Nephalia Academy is probably has good. RiP/Energy Field I got mixed feeling, it gives me two games (merfolk and 12 posts), but those games could have been win with the traditional combo... So not so great, I don't wrote everything but Energy Field alone was either quite good (it literaly buy turns for free) or either really bad, I don't think it's such a great card at the end for this shell.
Against the UB Omnitell:
- not seeing my opponent hand wasn't a problem after all.
- Lim Dul Vault isn't much needed, personal tutor really good too, and I probably prefer this one actually.
- Terminus is insame, many games have been won with it, no need to say personal tutor + sensei is a 2 mana almost when you want terminus, good too :) I'm wondering the split 2x Personal Tutor/1x Terminus is or not a thing, replenish is a line of play that get helped with 2 personal tutora, and is definitely a card to consider, here it didn't show up, but testing before the BOM gives me quite a few games, especially discard based deck usually remove omniscience.
People don't counter Personal Tutor because they think about show and tell rather than replenish, so they "hope" they will land something at the same moment as you, which is a surprise when they found they will have nothing in play at instant speed, while you will. And the single turn to wait with your opponent knowing about your next play, isn't much a problem if you prepare correctly.
Also, RiP/Energy Field is unexpected, and got good results if you don't go for this route on the first game, they will side out all abrupt decay and others, leaving the combo quite open, and/or forcing them to use their omniscience sac on this combo rather omniscience... But still, not a huge fan after all.
In general:
- ethersworn canonist is a huge pain
- The deck is more sensible to gaddock teeg than MonoU/UB Omnitell
- quite strong deck, has different line of play than MonoU/UB Omnitell, I would say it's little bit slower, more control-ish, but does it very well as the few first turns looks like a miracle start, so your opponent is likely to not empty his hand on first turn, which buy time, a lot of time, enough to win
Sorry, but this is the MiracleTell list of the guys that say I am lowering the IQ?
oook...
About Griselbrand: obviously I was talking about "things to drop into the BTF directly with SnT".
This way, Griselbrand gives you 7 cards for 2U even if it gets bounced/exiled.
In those 7/14 cards it is also very typical to find your Trickbind or SnT or Noxious Revival for EoT recursion into SnT to play it back again next turn with the new sculpt hand.
Also, against Miracle I would really consider (but not so sure) Iona. If he has not the answer on the spot he just can't win from there.
I am trying a UBg version with Abrupt Decay and Crop Rotation. Definitly happy with Decay in certain matchups, not so happy about Crop, but I feel its huge potential.
Crop into Boseiju vs Miracle
Crop into Karakas for tricky situation and go endless turns, ecc ecc
Last edited by Poron; 11-06-2016 at 10:20 AM.
This list "MiracleTell" is really strong, nothing to say more, it's for sure a good contender in the current metagame, it's disruptive, as fast as mono blue or black/blue, and dodge really well fast aggro with terminus.
And no it's not the same list, I was brewing around RiP/Energy Field, like said I was expecting losts of disruptions and GY strategies, where this combo is good against. And in the list he posted, he plays mainboard 2 or 3x counterbalance, in the few tests i've done, this card was always staying in my hand doing nothing: when you want to drop it, it's usually the same turn you want to go off...
Drawing 7 cards is a thing for sure, 7 life for it is probably tricky when your board is empty at least until turn 3, many decks goes on you really fast.
No need to say you have almost nothing to do with those 7 cards on the spot like a reanimator or UR OmniTell will...
Doesn't looks so great to me, but who knowsIm certainly not closed to any idea, proof I go with this "new" UW Omnitell on tournament, and it did well until my brain cease to work (after the elve player, it was mistake on mistake, like triggering 3/4 times sensei on the same turn, for nothing, I even manage to put sensei in the GY after resolving ponder for no reason with my opponent looking at me "what the fuck is he doing", that level of blur in my mind).
What makes it really good in UR Omnitell is the Sneak attack/Lotus petal that can chain a second creature for lethal, which non-red versions are not able to.
So I've mixed feeling of the third Emrakul replaced by Grisel, but again, who knows
Nonetheless, iona in OmniTell looks to me a reanimator style of play, and reanimator isn't well positionned against Miracles... Naming white still give them access to karakas, Jace, and sometimes Venser, and all of them they want to have them in their hand against an omnitell player, so you won't have any surprise effect as they are certainly already trying to tutor them... And with blood moon and/or back to basics, Boseiju is good but really not perfect.
The green version I was also considering it, mostly for trying Hunting Groud ( http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...iverseid=35167 ), but without luck so far.
Crop rotation to fight counter (as you talk fetching boseiju) is probably not such a great idea, as you have to sack land before it resolve, it's a bad play when you want to fight counters.
If you go for Crop, I would try the usual play of lands: 1x Karakas, 1x Bojuka, 1x Tabernacle. Definitely worth a try.
it makes them waste a hardcounter (Flusterstorm and Pierce don't really work against a 1cc Instant played alone) before you go off.
Crop also give you +2 cards in graveyard and acess to Cabal Pit in case you fear Containment Priest is coming
Worst case scenario you have drop whatever in your hand and lost the counter war and then play Hunting Ground with the GY full... (Threshold is needed to both HG and Cabal Pit)
HG would really suit your build.
Hunting Ground + eot Terminus really improves your situation.
And you only need cantrips up till that point.
On the same level, no love for tolaria west? it could be a mono blue replacement to crop rotation... And can also tutor pact of negation.
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