Then would you like to add a third color to the deck? I don't really see it (though the idea of adding some Xantid Swarms to the sideboard is appealing me)Originally Posted by emidln
Colorless is the new blue
http://ooh---shiny.blogspot.com
Whats the opinion on leylines of sanctity in the board? Seems useful to keep the combo safe from discard
LoS is good if you are playing the strictly monoblue version, if you play U/B you'll have serious space problems to make them fit in the side: we play a lot of Cunning Wish targets, and maybe some boseijus and/or sorcery black sweepers like Massacre or Toxic Deluge. But yes, it can save your day vs discard, Burn or even ANT.
Colorless is the new blue
http://ooh---shiny.blogspot.com
The list I've been testing is
Combo
4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
4 Cunning Wish
2 Emrakul, the aeon's torn
Protection
4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtsieze
2 Daze
Cantrips
3 Pieces of the Puzzle
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Lim Dul's Vault
Lands
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
5 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
2 Ancient Tomb
1 Boseiju
My sideboard is
1 Release the Ants
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Noxious Revival
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
1 Trickbind
1 Flusterstorm
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Massacre
1 Dread of Night
The real question I guess, is how is our bug matchup. Is it bad enough to want the 3 leylines, or is it fine to just cut them for more removal like a second massacre and 2 pushes
New spoiler: Approach of the Second Sun. Additional way to win using a Burning Wish build with Omniscience in play. No one's probably interested since it requires a splash color and sorcery is not instant but hey, it doesn't target like Release the Ants and it does not require declare attackers/combat like Emrakul, so it does have niche conditions going for it.
Example SB: Approach of the Second Sun, Behold the Beyond and Enter the Infinite. Cast Burning Wish, get Behold the Beyond and cast it, get 2x Burning Wish and whatever third card, cast Burning Wish to get Approach of the Second Sun and cast it, cast Burning Wish to get Enter the Infinite and cast it, cast Approach of the second sun.
I'm more interested in a single Fetid Pools, than I am in adding Second Sun.
So I'm interested in throwing together a quick proxied build of Omnitell so I can dabble around with it and figure out how it plays. Is there an updated deckbuilding guide/primer that I can take a look at anywhere?
If not, can all of you more experienced players let me know what the "core" of the deck is comprised of, and what cards are generally flex slots (as well as some common options to include in the flex slots).
Searching for proper decklists is hard, because a lot of versions of this deck have turned into Sneak and Show variants, and the decklists I can actually find can be somewhat inconsistent about what cards and splash colors they include.
Also, I notice that this deck runs sol lands. How many sol lands is normal? Which option is better, City of Traitors or Ancient Tomb? Or do we run a split of both cards?
I'd consider this the core:
3 Sol Lands
7 fetches
2 Underground Sea
5 basics
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Cunning Wish
4 Omniscience
4 Show and Tell
2 additional counterspells (Daze/Spell Pierce/Flusterstorm)
4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize
2 Lim-Dûl's Vault
That's like 7 flex slots for 1-3 more lands (Boseiju and/or more basics/fetches), and the 4th copies of the 3-of's. I like maxing out on Wish and Thoughtseize, for sure. I've seen a 3rd Emrakul or 1-2 Sensei's Divining Top or a 3rd non-FoW counter or an additional 2-drop instant like Impulse or Split Decision.
When searching for decklists search for decks that include Lim-Dul's Vault - it's pretty specific to this deck.
I prefer City of Traitors, but have seen both or a mix
Is the UB version the definitively best version now? This primer is mono-U and I think mtgsalvation's primer on the same deck is UR with Burning Wish.
Yes.
Jon Johnson is rocking Omn-tell on Legacy Premier League tonight:
https://www.cardhoarder.com/decks/shared/12514
https://www.twitch.tv/itsjulian
starts in about an hour!
In the last 1-4 flex slots, we used to run Mystical Tutor until it got banned, then Mental Misstep until it got banned, then Treasure Cruise until it got banned, then Dig Through Time until it got banned, then Sensei's Divining Top until it got banned. There is no completely satisfying universal solution to these slots, and it comes down to personal preference and meta calls. Spell Pierce has tended to be a fairly common "catch-all", but if Elves and D&T are some of the top decks in the format, I would rather experiment with something else since Pierce does not interact with Creatures. Daze is meh in our deck because we desperately need to get to 3 mana for SnT, or 4 mana to get it past Daze, or 5 mana to get it past Spell Pierce. Daze slows us down by 1 turn, making us a goldfish.
Am I an "old fart" for thinking of Force Spike (hits creatures), Lotus Petal (acceleration) and Ratchet Bomb (Bomb vs Chalice @1, Elves, Thorn of Amethyst, Thalias)?
I've seen/experimented with:
Bolded ones are common/typical choices (compared to the other options in this list)
- 1-4x Impulse (safe choice into an unknown/wide open meta or when you are not feeling particularly creative)
- 1-4x Gitaxian Probe
- 1-2x Spell Pierce/Daze/Flusterstorm
- 1-2x Dismember
- 1-2x Toxic Deluge
- 1-2x Intuition combined with 3rd Emrakul
- 1-2x Notion Thief
- 1-2x Shadow of Doubt
- 1-2x Enter the Infinite
- 1-2x Serum Visions/Sleight of Hand/Peek
- 1-2x Force Spike
- 1-2x Lotus Petal
- 1of Personal Tutor
- 1of Dream Halls
- 1of Echoing Truth ("catch-all" cmc2 instant, hits md Ensnaring Bridge)
- 1of Boomerang
- 1of Vendilion Clique
- 1of Ratchet Bomb (vs Chalice @1, tokens and elves)
- 1of Ensnaring Bridge
- 1of Back to Basics
- 1of Stifle
- 1of Meekstone
- 1of Misdirection ("5th FoW", OK vs Hymn to Tourach)
- 1of Spell Snare
- 1of Counterspell
- 1of Miscalculation
- 1of Split Decision (copies Wish, makes it super easy to combo on the combo turn, great choice when new to the deck)
I put together a UB list after trading a bit at GP Vegas. I played a bunch of Miracle of Science so I'm not new to casting Firemind's Foresight but these lists have me a little bit confused. What's the generic goldfish kill when you have an Omniscience on the battlefield and a Cunning Wish in your hand? My inclination is to get Firemind's Foresight, get Brainstorm, Lim-Dul's Vault, and Cunning Wish, use Vault to put an Emrakul on top of your library, and then wish for Release the Ants but this seems inefficient because it doesn't do anything with the Brainstorm. Should I be getting a Spell Pierce or Flusterstorm or something instead? Or is there just a better grip to get with Foresight? Not having Split Decision is throwing me off.
"I'm willing to imagine a TES where Past in Flames replaces Ill-Gotten Gains entirely, and we just don't play Diminishing Returns." - me, 29/09/2011
Founding member of Team Scrubbad: Legacy Legends
CW #1 to get Firemind's Foresight. FF to get Brainstorm, Lim-Dul's Vault, and Cunning Wish #2.
Cunning Wish #2 for Eladamri's Call. Cast EC to get Emrakul into hand. Then you can easycast Emrakul, pass the turn to yourself and swing 15 with annihilator 6. The annihilator trigger makes sure the opponent typically won't recover and you can swing a second time with Emrakul even if you have to pass the turn once to the opponent in the process.
Alternatively, CW #2 for Eladamri's Call, EC to get Emrakul into hand, then LDV to get CW #3 into top 5 and put it on top, Brainstorm to get CW #3 into hand putting Emrakul on top from your hand, cast CW #3 to get Release the Ants. Especially in a 4 CW build, looking for CW #3 with LDV with 2 CW still remaining in the deck with an Emrakul already in hand as your "plan B" this approach won't fizzle much. Compared to your initial thought of looking for 2 Emrakul with LDV without a sufficient backup plan.
My backup plan is to have a Flusterstorm in my hand and an Emrakul on top of my deck.
I'm actually pretty sure most of the UB lists floating around are trash. There's no way some of these wish targets provide enough utility over the course of a tournament to justify inclusion. Noxious Revival is a gimmick, Trickbind is a gimmick, Slaughter Pact does nothing relevant, one Hurkyl's Recall isn't going to cut it if you're serious about beating Sphere of Resistance, having both Intuition and Eladamri's Call in the sideboard is totally redundant etc., etc. Cutting most of this garbage frees up slots for cards that actually impact important matchups like Defence Grid, Dread of Night, or graveyard hate.
"I'm willing to imagine a TES where Past in Flames replaces Ill-Gotten Gains entirely, and we just don't play Diminishing Returns." - me, 29/09/2011
Founding member of Team Scrubbad: Legacy Legends
What you really need:
1x Firemind's Foresight
1x Eladamri's Call
What you probably should also include:
1x Release the Ants
1-2x "catch-all" bounce spell (Echoing Truth, Rushing River. Wipe Away seems redundant post top ban.). These are mostly used against Chalice of the Void @ 1, Thalia, Ensnaring Bridge and Leyline of Sanctity.
The rest of the wishboard is local metagame gimmicks, e.g. Slaughter Pact vs Iona on blue, Trickbind vs. Oblivion Ring and Storm, Surgical Extraction as g1 wishable gy hate, Noxious Revival vs opposing Surgical Extraction.
Defense Grid and Boseiju are amongst the top candidates vs blue, whereas vs. Thalia, Chalice @ 1and Thorn of Amethyst you want answers to problematic permanents. Ratchet Bomb is a monocolored alternative, Engineered Explosives if you have a splash color available. Bounce spells are also useful.
Last edited by Karhumies; 06-23-2017 at 06:40 AM.
Personally, I feel that this deck in the current metagame is a mid-budget "stepping stone" towards building Ur Sneaky Show.
Mono U omnitell choking points:
- Has to resolve Show and Tell (4x) to win
-> Sneaky Show has access to 4x Show and Tell + 4x Sneak Attack
Workaround options:
- Running Dream Halls
-> Sneak Attack is asymmetrical instead of symmetrical and costs 1 mana less
- Running extra cantrips and tutors (Preordain, LDV or Burning Wish)
-> Preordain opens you up to getting hit by Chalice of the Void @ 1 and Thalia. LDV is card disadvantage.
- Lack of "raw card draw". Even post Omniscience, cantrip chains without getting Emrakul, Cunning Wish, Intuition or Enter the Infinite can be disrupted or they can fizzle.
-> Sneaky Show has access to Griselbrand for raw draw power post combo
Advantages over Sneaky Show:
1) Mono U not hit by Wasteland
-> Ub seems to be the prevalent OmniTell decklist now (with red splash with BW a secondary option), so this point is moot
2) Can win without combat
-> Ensnaring Bridge is a marginal card to begin with, but Karakas can pose a few problems
3) Cheaper to build
-> Key benefit IMO
Slaughter Pact solves an important problem when facing down Thalia of how to kill Thalia without wasting 2 full turns. Killing hatebears for 0 is so much better than the other options that I find it hard to believe it isn't one of the most wished for cards in the utility slot.
The second most wished for utility card is Noxious Revival. It turns every Wish you draw into "unwind a previous discard spell". This comes up at least once per tournament, sometimes more than once. If it's not coming up for you then you're doing one of three things: (1) dodging discard decks, (2) banking on Leyline of Sanctity (which is probably fine at this point due to all the discard + combo), or (3) leaving wins on the table.
Trickbind isn't something I'm super high on with the default UW solution to SnT being 4x Canonist. That said, boarding it in vs trigger-based hate is real, and it matters when you face those decks. This isn't necessarily a wasted slot, but I don't run it right now.
AFAICT, nobody plays Intuition. The card was garbage in the original mono blue lists and is garbage now. Between FF/Call finding business and Noxious Revival rebuying discarded business, all of the roles of Intuition are filled. Spending 6 mana to find a card is better left to the EDH players.
I would play UB right now, but I would play it without Thoughtseize in the maindeck. I think Force/Fluster is where you need to be in the maindeck, with a mixture of Defense Grid, Dread of Night, Toxic Deluge, and Leyline of Sanctity rounding out your maindeck and sideboard. I still play LDV because stacking my deck is still broken.
If you're wondering, the third is Flusterstorm, and after stuff comes up, but not consistently throughout and event. In terms of cards that you actually wish for routinely in every tournament (in order of frequency):
Firemind's Foresight
Eladamri's Call
Slaughter Pact
Noxious Revival
Flusterstorm
Echoing Truth/Wipe Away/Rushing River (whichever that you play)
If you face a sphere deck, you might wish for H.Recall/Rushing River.
If you face a graveyard deck, you might wish for Ravenous Trap/Surgical Extraction.
If you face a deck with triggered abilities, you might wish for Trickbind or Release the Ants.
The reason FF is on the list is actually due so that you can get Wish/LDV/BS, then LDV+BS into either Wish or Emrakul and then have 2 Emrakuls (possibly via Wish->Call, Call->Emrakul #1, Wish->Revival, Revival->Call, Call->Emrakul #2). Only around 1 in 15 games do I actually *need* to kill someone at instant-speed (or have Trickbind).
I wouldn't fault someone for considering the 2nd graveyard hate, only play 1 mass bounce, or cutting either Trickbind or Release the Ants entirely (and I might favor cutting RtA over Trickbind since you can side in Trickbind to be useful sometimes). This frees up a bunch of space. Of course, the other sideboard cards do come up from time to time, and maybe are better than the default ones I mentioned in certain situations, but possibly not enough to be worth the space.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
My solution to Thalia is to play Thoughtseize in the maindeck and Dread of Night in the sideboard. Your point about Noxious Revival is interesting; I may reconsider my decision to cut it. I think I still prefer Intuition to Eladamri's Call as a card that provides the same functional role in the combo turn while also having other applications. I currently have one Flusterstorm in the maindeck (along with one Force Spike) and one in the sideboard, so we're in agreement there. Playing Echoing Truth instead of Wipe Away seems reasonable in a post-Top metagame since if you're trying to get rid of a Canonist this way the split second on Wipe Away doesn't matter too much (they'd just counter the Wish if they can).
"I'm willing to imagine a TES where Past in Flames replaces Ill-Gotten Gains entirely, and we just don't play Diminishing Returns." - me, 29/09/2011
Founding member of Team Scrubbad: Legacy Legends
1) Leyline of Sanctity x4 in the SB seems really nice at this point in time for the sideboard. Does not shut down Liliana +1 discard, but apart from that, it's very useful versus spot discard and combo.
Noxious Revival has not come up for me very often because
- I play with Leyline of Sanctity postboard
- Unless opponent discards Omniscience/SnT, chances are you never want to get the discarded card back (also, Emrakul shuffles itself so unless you have the Wish mana open, you will miss the opportunity)
- Chances are the opponent wants to take out a FoW/Pierce/Fluster to enable their key (combo) cards hitting play, rather than disrupting our (slower) combo
- If we have only 1 combo piece in hand with U open, we can protect it by responding with Brainstorm
- Even if the opponent discards a combo piece, I may want to LDV (or cantrip chain) for a substitute copy from my deck and save the Wish for going off. Mostly because post Omniscience a Wish should win me the game on the spot, whereas post Omniscience LDV is meh.
-> I tend to Wish for Revival when the opponent is targeting the discarded SnT or Omni with Surgical Extraction, or if the opponent has discarded 2+ copies of the card, making the remainders difficult to find in the deck.
2) I'd like to point out that many hatebears have 2 toughness: Leovold, Ethersworn Canonist, Sanctum Prelate (on 3 prevents SnT), Gaddock Teeg (prevents FF) and Containment Priest (prevents SnT Emrakul). 1x Dread of Night kills Thalia and Vryn Wingmare, but you would need a second one for the others. Pact kills one hatebear. Echoing Truth gets rid of all hatebears with the same name. Ratchet Bomb or Explosives gets rid of all hatebears with the same cmc (most likely 2). If the metagame has a mix of hatebears, Massacre, Toxic Deluge or a red splash for AoE damage (SB Grim Lavamancer, Pyroclasm, Kozilek's Return, Electrickery) are decent options.
Intuition doesn't allow 2x Emrkaul off Firemind's Foresight on the combo turn (guaranteeing a kill) nor does it allow a 2 colorless solution to on-board sphere-effects (Thalia/Thorn). There is zero reason to play Intuition.
I like having Wipe Away to side in against Canonist (usually leaving Slaughter Pact in the sb) and it's a good solution vs Mother of Runes. Probably not as much of an issue if you're spamming Massacres or Dread of Nights.
I have this sleeved:
// 60 Maindeck
// 1 Artifact
1 Defense Grid
// 2 Creature
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
// 5 Enchantment
4 Omniscience
1 Leyline of Sanctity
// 18 Instant
4 Cunning Wish
3 Lim-Dûl's Vault
3 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
// 20 Land
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
3 City of Traitors
5 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
2 Underground Sea
// 14 Sorcery
4 Show and Tell
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Toxic Deluge
// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Defense Grid
// 3 Enchantment
SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
// 10 Instant
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Firemind's Foresight
SB: 1 Release the Ants
SB: 1 Eladamri's Call
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Rushing River
SB: 1 Slaughter Pact
SB: 1 Noxious Revival
SB: 1 Fatal Push
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
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