[Deck] MonoU OmniTell

[apple713]

It's very useful when you're limited on mana (say, 4) with a Thalia on the other side of the table. Eot Wish for Pact, own turn pact the Thalia, SnT->Win. It's one mana less than doing the same thing with Charm.

if the mana is so tight, why play sapphire charm at all?

[Lejay]

Because having a second slaughter pact doesn't add any wish option ?
Because a sided in answer that can be recycled is better than one that can't ?
Because a blue card is better than a black card ?
Because having the option to cycle a wish is more relevant than the times where you would need 2 S.pact game one ?

[Jessenator]

I want to personally thank Lejay and his friends for their hard work on this deck. It helped me obtain my SCG top 8 this Sunday with the deck. I was 7-0 in swiss and double ID into top 8. The matches I played all seemed extremely one-sided for me. I played 2 BUG, 1 Deathblade, 2 RUG, 1 Elf, and 1 Burn throughout the day.

I lost in the top 8 to UWR Delver. Game 2-3 I just couldn't draw my third combo piece after cantripping multiple times. I guess that's what happens sometimes when you run a three piece combo deck. I was on the draw for about 80% of the matchups as well, was very happy with the results.

The faces of people reading Release the Ants and Sapphire Charm is just priceless. Thanks again!

Jesse

P.S. My decklist for reference.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=56677

[sauce]

I've been playing unsummon instead of sapphire charm, I really did not find the phasing to be relevant enough to go finding that card in copious boxes of crap.
I've played the deck in two legacy 4 round events so far. Both were 3-1.

Lost to UWr miracles in 3 where I did not force CB or SDT due to thinking they were largely irrelevant (was wrong.)
Lost to URw delver/burn in 3 where I could not find my combo in g3 after 6 cantrips. Died to goblin guide + delver (flipped t2 blindly)

[sauce]

s&t is not that offensive, it only is bannable vs decks that don't do anything to interact.
the decks that put you on a big clock or decks that are pure control are at least 50/50 (in my opinion) vs s&t.
sure, there are gonna be games where you s&t and they have stone blanks and you roll them, but there are gonna be games where you cannot find all your combo pieces and get locked out or killed by delvers.
I feel like s&t should not be banned, it's not that oppressive. It is good, but not as good as mental misstep where it was just dominating legacy.

[apple713]

@apple+Kobe duo : I can save you a lot of time instead of testing. You already pointed out the best cases for divert as well as the bad cases for leyline. I guess it could be a good idea to just try to figure out what NUMEROUS cases make leyline better. I know this isn't easy but if you can turn on your brains and figure those out, you probably won't need any testing.

Lets assume that Leyline is 100% better in all situations where it is in your OPENING hand.

Cards drawn
4 24.68%
5 30.06%
6 35.15%
7 39.95%

7 cards drawn obviously being the most common which is only 40% of the that it is at all helpful. if you ever draw it later it is just a dead card and cant help at all. You can't cast it nothing.

If I am sideboarding in a card to improve my matchup vs something and my only allabye is to get it opening hand, i need to find a different solution to my problem... its really that simple. It's taking up 4 incredibly valuable sideoard spots.

It's application is incredibly limited because the only thing it protects us from that we care about is discard.

it hozes burn but if we cant beat burn main deck it shouldnt be in a decks to beat section

it provides an additional step for high tide which is irrelevant because it doesnt slow them down since they'll have infinate mana by the time they decide to deal with it.

it prevents jace from fatestealing us.... whoopie.... if they landed a jace and we dont have our combo we still have a ton of ways to find it with cantrips and fetchlands for fresh draws.



returning to my first point of that it only helps at best 40% of the time and the goal i think is to achieve consistency, i would say that 40% is not even close to consitent unless yo want to start flipping coins to determine your victories. Consistency is one of the most important factors in magic and one of the main reasons why blue is the best color.

An example of how important consistency is. mono white stax (a deck i played for years), is one of the most powerful decks I've played. Potential to lock your opponent out of the game before they ever cast a spell. Why hasent this deck won any major tournaments.... Cause it locks oppoents out of the game about 40% of the time...

[Adan]

@Adan : I'm surprised you seem disappointed by your result. The deck has positive match-ups against almost everything, you could have won against TT, and other than that you only lost against MUD which has some weapons and presents a lot of variance to play against.

I am actually not disappointed, I am still convinced this deck is the real deal. And I should have won against TT, yes, the mistake was to play it safe instead of going all-in.
Why? Because I thought that my opponent cannot be THAT dumb and stupid.

But MUD was an absolute pain, even if he does nothing all the time he can simply drop a 3Sphere to SnT which will slow you down by at least 2 turns. Having 6 mana to wish and bounce within the same turn is rather unlikely. And in that timeframe, cards like Lodestone Golems, Thorns and Spheres also have to be handled somehow.
I don't really think that matchup is winnable at all.

As a whole however I am disappointed by the results from SCG. Clearly people are hating the deck a lot by reading the top8 players profiles as well as some of their sideboards (and as usual once in the top bracket people with a ton of combo hate will fold to people with less combo hate). This results in an almost no man's land of other combo decks in the top16. Outside of the 2 omnitells there is just a elf deck that is a bit less weak to the omnitell hate than sneak or storm.
Because of survival era and other periods I always thought people in the US were more inclined towards playing the best deck rather than hating it as it is the case in Europe. It seems that the fact show and tell is so dumb and because of the risk of seeing it banned, people are not many to play it and prefer to hate the deck. A good illustration is GerryT who was already working on the deck before GP Strasbourg. It would seem natural for him to get on the train but instead he chose to play Gro-a-fiend (no idea how he calls the deck, but that was the name in France after I made a good performance at BoM 2010 with it) a kiln fiend-berserk-cheapcounters deck designed to crush into combo metagames. As long as even good players prefer the hating rather than playing the best deck, we won't get show and tell banned and my call to SCG grinders will be a failure.

I believe it's also a card availability issue. No one wants to spend 200 Euro on a playset of Show and Tells when they also have to spend big cash on a playset Sneak Attacks, Griselbrands, Emrakuls and Sol Lands (that's another 300-400 Euro I believe). These cards are rather narrow and you can't use them for any other archetype (although I must say that people have become very creative with their Sol Lands as that UB Tezz demonstrates even though I really think it was just a fluke).

Well, and some people still deny that OmniHalls is the best SnT-based deck one can play (in terms of consistency and resistance to hate).

@apple+Kobe duo : I can save you a lot of time instead of testing. You already pointed out the best cases for divert as well as the bad cases for leyline. I guess it could be a good idea to just try to figure out what NUMEROUS cases make leyline better. I know this isn't easy but if you can turn on your brains and figure those out, you probably won't need any testing.

By the way, I must add that LLOS has been GOLD for me this time. Against that Nic Fit (which was basically a ported GBR version of Scapeshift), LLOS protected me against Therapies, Thoughtseizes and most important: Slaughter Games. Slaughter Games on Cunning Wish would have been lights out for me instantly.

But I must add that Veteran Explorer is not the best card against OmniHalls. ;)

[apple713]

By the way, I must add that LLOS has been GOLD for me this time. Against that Nic Fit (which was basically a ported GBR version of Scapeshift), LLOS protected me against Therapies, Thoughtseizes and most important: Slaughter Games. Slaughter Games on Cunning Wish would have been lights out for me instantly.

maybe you should add emrakul for this matchup..at least 1 main.

actually Lab maniac seems better here as a 1 main option. you can win clashes with ETI or omni if you really want to. Lab maniac would win more times than Emrakul. consider their life more than 15 with more than 6 permanents...this happens often.


maybe i missed why it isnt main already....


Laboratory Maniac + research/development : this kill simply shuffles back maniac thanks to a wished research. Then you cantrip into it, play it, and play cantrips ftw. In case of removal either counter it or play a brainstorm in response. This kill is only vulnerable to very few random things (sudden shock/death/sudden spoiling, weaker against chains of Mephistopheles or counterbalance) so it’s perfectly good if you really don’t want the Emrakul main deck.

from the OP. imo def seems better except in CB situations, but in cb situations you have trickbind or at least potential to trickbind.

[sauce]

vs counterbalance you can enter the infinite and if they have a 2 drop for ants you can play emrakul take the extra turn, annihilate their counterbalance and then kill them next turn.
alternatively, after you annihilate them you can cunning wish for noxious revival, put ants on top, draw them with gitaxian probe or ponder and then ants them out.

[Jessenator]

I've been playing unsummon instead of sapphire charm, I really did not find the phasing to be relevant enough to go finding that card in copious boxes of crap.
I've played the deck in two legacy 4 round events so far. Both were 3-1.

Lost to UWr miracles in 3 where I did not force CB or SDT due to thinking they were largely irrelevant (was wrong.)
Lost to URw delver/burn in 3 where I could not find my combo in g3 after 6 cantrips. Died to goblin guide + delver (flipped t2 blindly)

The only point of the Sapphire Charm is to battle the Vial decks like Death and Taxes. It gives you a 1 turn window to kill them through Thalia / Canoist etc. It's much much better.

[Jessenator]

vs counterbalance you can enter the infinite and if they have a 2 drop for ants you can play emrakul take the extra turn, annihilate their counterbalance and then kill them next turn.
alternatively, after you annihilate them you can cunning wish for noxious revival, put ants on top, draw them with gitaxian probe or ponder and then ants them out.

Or you could just Trickbind the CB Trigger.

[Tom T]

Or you could just Trickbind the CB Trigger.

I don't think Trickbind will work on a Counterbalance floating a 2-drop. Noxious Revival could handle this situation, but only until the opponent clashes a new 2-drop. A Rushing River or Emrakul will seal the deal in this case.

[phazonmutant]

from the OP. imo def seems better except in CB situations, but in cb situations you have trickbind or at least potential to trickbind.

vs counterbalance you can enter the infinite and if they have a 2 drop for ants you can play emrakul take the extra turn, annihilate their counterbalance and then kill them next turn.
alternatively, after you annihilate them you can cunning wish for noxious revival, put ants on top, draw them with gitaxian probe or ponder and then ants them out.

Or you could just Trickbind the CB Trigger.

I know it's difficult to remember as far back as a week ago, but we already had this discussion. Emidln posted a very comprehensive guide to beating Counterbalance after Entering. Summary: Cunning Wish for Rushing River / Wipe Away. Bounce Counterbalance. Then Cunning Wish for Ants. Come on, this isn't hard.

Also, Trickbind the CB trigger? What is that supposed to accomplish, wasting a Cunning Wish?

Edit:
Didn't see Tom T's post before I submitted. Props to Tom T for knowing how Cunning Wish works.

[apple713]

vs counterbalance you can enter the infinite and if they have a 2 drop for ants you can play emrakul take the extra turn, annihilate their counterbalance and then kill them next turn.
alternatively, after you annihilate them you can cunning wish for noxious revival, put ants on top, draw them with gitaxian probe or ponder and then ants them out.

has anyone tested Emrakul vs lab maniac?

they both lose to humility

maniac loses to

cb maybe (trickbind answers this)
humility
split second removal (these arnt played commonly in any format)


emrakul loses to

ensnaring bridge
peacekeeper
humility
better board presence




both are very narrow. cb and better board presence seem to be the most likely of all the options and i guess its just personal preference at that point.

Does CB have that many 3 drops typically? vendilion and entreat? is that enough to make lab maniac not the preferred method?

[Anusien]

Maniac actually doesn't lose to Humility. I assume you run it in your sideboard and access it with Research. If you do, you just put your bounce spell in the cards you put into your library with Research it, draw it with one of your abundant draw spells from Enter the Infinite and bounce the Humility before you go off. Also split second removal doesn't necessarily beat Laboratory Maniac. Let's say you cast Laboratory Maniac. Then you cast Ponder and they respond with Wipe Away. You let Wipe Away resolve, then counter your Ponder. Then you can cast Laboratory Maniac again. If they kill it somehow, you just wish for Noxious Revival and then draw it and recast it.

Emrakul does a different thing than Laboratory Maniac. It doesn't compete with either Release the Ants OR Laboratory Maniac. Emrakul is your extra, maindeck win condition. You can run Release the Ants without Emrakul and you can run Laboratory Maniac with Emrakul.

[Tom T]

has anyone tested Emrakul vs lab maniac?

I guess Lejay did. Emrakul enables extra lines (like when you don't have your EtI), Lab Maniac doesn't. Lab only wins post-EtI and those games are won anyway because of the Cunning Wish.
The only time Emrakul is used post-EtI is in case of specific hate permanents and a lot of those hate permanents aren't solved by a Lab Maniac.

they both lose to humility

maniac loses to

cb maybe (trickbind answers this) No, Rushing River or Emrakul
humility No, Release the Ants or Rushing River
split second removal (these arnt played commonly in any format) Emrakul (has protection from colored spells), Release the Ants


emrakul loses to

ensnaring bridge No, Rushing River/Release the Ants plan
peacekeeper No, Rushing River/Slaughter Pact/Sapphire Charm/Release the Ants plan
humility No, Rushing River or Release the Ants plan
better board presence No, Rushing River->Cunning Wish->Noxious Revival(Rushing River)->Ponder->Rushing River->attack with Emrakul (10 permanents gone+ 15 damage) or Release the Ants plan

The more I read this thread the more I think the deck shouldn't be discussed. At this rate, there is nothing to discuss except for the MUD- or possibly the RUG Delver matchup in my opinion.
All other posts contain questions already asked or plain retardedness.

Edit: Not all posts obviously, but a lot of them in the past few pages..

[apple713]

The only real thing to discuss is making the deck more efficient. Shorter lines of play / increased consistency.

[Corto]

About the Counterbalance problem :
If a 3 drop is floated, doesn't that blank all the cunning wish, thus every possibilities of concluding with what you propose ? ( wipe away, release the ants and so forth )
Maybe I missed Emidln's post and if it is explained in it I apologize for the inane question.

[alphastryk]

About the Counterbalance problem :
If a 3 drop is floated, doesn't that blank all the cunning wish, thus every possibilities of concluding with what you propose ? ( wipe away, release the ants and so forth )
Maybe I missed Emidln's post and if it is explained in it I apologize for the inane question.

Well, you can cast Emrakul through it. :)

Postboard, for CB on 3 you can bring in Trickbind and hit the trigger for whatever 3 you need to resolve (C Wish).

For CB on 2, you can wish and get rid of it (Rushing River / Wipe Away)

If they have a 2 and a 3 you have to be on Emrakul I think.

[Corto]

Obviously you can cast Emrakul, I was merely replying to ideas that gravitate around "C.wish into something".
For trickbind to work, it means you have it main deck, which I've not found in samples side tables.