SCD- Notion Thief

[menace13]

Ban it, my love of Brainstorms and Jace can't handle this. Have you seen the blowouts on SCG?

[Grand Superior]

I saw both of them and man, the first one was savage. Basically got a 6 for 1 and turned the entire game around for Nolan. The second one was more of a nail in the coffin, but it was hilarious how Uppal cascaded into a Brainstorm and got Notion Thief'd.

As for discussion on Notion Thief, I'm still unconvinced that it's a good card to have because the blowouts, as awesome as they were, don't seem like things which could happen often without the stars aligning for you. Still, I'm trying a one-of in my Esper Stoneblade sideboard just for fun and I'm not taking it out until I get someone's Jace with it.

[menace13]

Yeah it is a savage beating. I dont know how good the card is at 4mana, although 2/1 for 3cc would have been much better for Legacy, it is still a major brainstorm/jace/visions hoser. Also random value vs hi tide and Omni.

If there is a SCD for Notion Thief sorry. I checked last 2 pages of threads and 1st page of google. Was convinced it did not exist after extensive search.

[Julian23]

At BoM I totally blew out my opponent be flashing in Notion Thief against his eot Brainstorm. Best part? He untapped and cast Ponder.

Notion Thief is one of the very best cards to have in the Shardless BUG Mirror Matches. Abrupt Decay cant remove it and people tend to side out Forces. Flash is pretty good protection from Jace and Liliana anyways. Still, I'd only want it as a 1off.

[Zombie]

Still feels so silly to have a blue hoser in blue. But I guess that's life.

[jamis]

I think the card's going to get bigger as people realize how good it can be, but then fade away once people learn how easy it is to play around it. If your opponent passes the turn with four lands untapped and cards in hand, its probably not a good idea to cast that brainstorm. Learning how to hold onto your brainstorms is something a lot of people have been needing to learn for a while.

[twndomn]

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/405522193

at 12:27:30

[thecrav]

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/405522193

at 12:27:30

Osyp: "That is the single greatest thing that has ever happened"

[jamis]

Osyp: "That is the single greatest thing that has ever happened"

Gotta push them sales

[Barook]

13:05:20

The look on Justin's face in G2 was even better when he cascaded into a BS while having Vision with one counter left, just to meet another Notion Thief.

It didn't really matter anymore with the board state in that situation, but damn, he looked really pissed off.

[TsumiBand]

It works today, but it probably won't work tomorrow. There cannot be that many cromulent spells that tap for 2UB, that an opponent with a Jace is going to just go "sure why not, brainstorm". Funnier than hell, though.

It has nothing to do with anything, but I love the "RTFC" trope that's been established regarding cards that wreck people. They HAVE to pick it up and read it - I do it, you do it, everyone just does it. It's like when a guitar player forgets the chords of a song and so they go back over the same lyric over and over trying new chords and they all suck. "(C)Puff the Magic (Em)Dragon (F)lived by the (C)sea... and (Dm)frolicked, wait...... (Bb)frolicked, nope......(G7)frolahhh. (Am9)FROL... (Ebmaj7#11)FROL... God dammit."

[Fossil4182]

Notion Thief is what I wish Chains of Mephistopheles could be - personal rank aside.

I don't think this is the second coming of Red Elemental Blast, but its definitely something. I really like this card because it seems to combat Brainstorm, Jace, and the Vision decks that are in the top tier right now. More over, its an interactive card, rewards smart tactical play, punishes sloppy play, and will lead to some great stories :-) At four mana, its certainty cast-able on turn three, but as a 3-4 play, it should impact match-ups without dominating them.

What I don't like about this card is appears borderline oppressive. Its really difficult to break out of from under this card if you don't have an immediate way to remove it. Though I supposed this notion splits both ways as it really does punish decks that rely on cantrips, Jace, and Visions. Given how power the draw effect of those cards are, an effect that counters it would have to be exceptionally powerful in its own right.

I don't know if this will push a lot of the blue decks out of the top tier. I could see the blue decks cannibalizing themselves by engaging in a sort of "break the mirror" arms race which would open up space for something else to emerge. At best Notion Thief could certainly curtail the use of blue card draw and change the metagame at the top. At worst, it means people will be much more cautious about how and when they play those cards. I think the reality will be closer to the latter, but it will be fun (and hilarious) to watch.

[dontbiteitholmes]

What I don't like about this card is appears borderline oppressive. Its really difficult to break out of from under this card if you don't have an immediate way to remove it. Though I supposed this notion splits both ways as it really does punish decks that rely on cantrips, Jace, and Visions. Given how power the draw effect of those cards are, an effect that counters it would have to be exceptionally powerful in its own right.

LOL WUT?

Oppressive? A 4 drop with an ass of 1 that does basically nothing against non-blue decks and can be killed by literally any removal spell that isn't Abrupt Decay?

That's like someone playing Enchantress and complaining that Reverent Silence is "oppressive" because it doesn't allow them to carelessly throw out 10 enchantments a turn and lock down the board.

[Mr. Safety]

I think the card's going to get bigger as people realize how good it can be, but then fade away once people learn how easy it is to play around it. If your opponent passes the turn with four lands untapped and cards in hand, its probably not a good idea to cast that brainstorm. Learning how to hold onto your brainstorms is something a lot of people have been needing to learn for a while.

Now just imagine a deck that will almost ALWAYS play draw-go and leave lands untapped. Do you play around Notion Thief or do you try to simply play your game? Just curious because making Brainstorm a dead card is pretty amazing. When your opponent has dead cards to shuffle away and they can't even rely on Brainstorm then Thief is pretty good at creating virtual card advantage. I hear Brainstorm is a fairly common card to face, too. You can't always hold onto your Brainstorms, it just isn't feasible. Sometimes its your only play, albeit typically a damn good one. Learning how to play Brainstorm is now MORE difficult if Thief becomes a thing. Now it isn't just a matter of timing Brainstorm correctly but also making sure your opponent doesn't have 4 spare mana to rip a Thief.

I predict Notion Thief will find it's home and stick around. It won't be tier 1 (I don't think) but it's in Legacy to stay, at least on the fringes. Lots of 4 mana cards come and go in popularity (see: Natural Order, Elspeth Knight-Errant, etc.) Just because it isn't as omnipresent as Jace doesn't mean it isn't going to be a card that sees Legacy play for the foreseeable future.

[Dark Ritual]

LOL WUT?

Oppressive? A 4 drop with an ass of 1 that does basically nothing against non-blue decks and can be killed by literally any removal spell that isn't Abrupt Decay?

That's like someone playing Enchantress and complaining that Reverent Silence is "oppressive" because it doesn't allow them to carelessly throw out 10 enchantments a turn and lock down the board.

Agreed. It's like saying gaddock teeg is oppressive against storm combo, however teeg does actual nothing against aggro decks.

Notion thief is a fuse card that must be fused. It reads as follows:

1U: Draw 3 Cards 1B: Target player puts two cards on top of their library. It isn't really surprising that hymn + ancestral recall on one card makes it legacy playable despite it being 4 mana.

I just want to notion thief someone so badly now. Feel bad for Uppal, that was gnarly. Draw all the cards.

[jamis]

Now just imagine a deck that will almost ALWAYS play draw-go and leave lands untapped. Do you play around Notion Thief or do you try to simply play your game? Just curious because making Brainstorm a dead card is pretty amazing. When your opponent has dead cards to shuffle away and they can't even rely on Brainstorm then Thief is pretty good at creating virtual card advantage. I hear Brainstorm is a fairly common card to face, too. You can't always hold onto your Brainstorms, it just isn't feasible. Sometimes its your only play, albeit typically a damn good one. Learning how to play Brainstorm is now MORE difficult if Thief becomes a thing. Now it isn't just a matter of timing Brainstorm correctly but also making sure your opponent doesn't have 4 spare mana to rip a Thief.

I predict Notion Thief will find it's home and stick around. It won't be tier 1 (I don't think) but it's in Legacy to stay, at least on the fringes. Lots of 4 mana cards come and go in popularity (see: Natural Order, Elspeth Knight-Errant, etc.) Just because it isn't as omnipresent as Jace doesn't mean it isn't going to be a card that sees Legacy play for the foreseeable future.

Yeah, I agree. It'll be a card you have to watch out for, but it won't be the card you have to watch out for. When your oppoent has you dead, and you need to cast brainstorm to dig for an out, of course you still cast it; if they have Notion Theif, they have Notion Theif. But some people will be ahead on board, and cast Brainstorm just because they have it, Notion Theif punishes that. And that's kind of a negative I see against it, its either win more or it punishes bad plays.

[Fossil4182]

LOL WUT?

Oppressive? A 4 drop with an ass of 1 that does basically nothing against non-blue decks and can be killed by literally any removal spell that isn't Abrupt Decay?

That's like someone playing Enchantress and complaining that Reverent Silence is "oppressive" because it doesn't allow them to carelessly throw out 10 enchantments a turn and lock down the board.

Hmmm... Youre 100% correct. Guess that's why I called it borderline oppressive instead of oppressive. Thanks for accurately quoting me :)

Ya, Notion Thief does "[die] by literally any removal spell that's not Abrupt Decay" but I think that's over simplifying the discussion. Most decks don't run a critical mass of removal spells (only 4-7) because they can reliable cantrip into their answers and Snapcaster Mage lets them cheat on the spell count. Resolving Notion Theif with Brainstorm on the stack or in response to a Jace activation creates a five card swing. Besides stealing three draws, forcing them to put two on top of their deck is what pushes this card from cute / cool to blowout levels. That's why removal isn't a guarantee because in most instances, they may be putting it back on top of their library or the player with Notion Theif would of drawn into protection. That's why it's borderline or "situationally oppressive" - its not always good, but when top 16s are littered with Brainstorm.dec (like last week where 14/16 we running Brainstorm), then a card like Notion Theif will lead to some blowouts. All I'm claiming is that when its blowout good, it's almost impossible to recover which combine with the frequency of Brainstorm and Jace, can make it borderline and situationally oppressive. Which, BTW, fine and probably healthy for Legacy.

[bruizar]

It's not a 5 card swing. It's a 5 card swing + 2 time walks.

[PirateKing]

It's not a 5 card swing. It's a 5 card swing + 2 time walks.

Unless the intention was to BS and fetch like a good player.

Then it's still just a 5 card shift.

[bruizar]

Then it's a 5 card swing + 1 damage :D


In all seriousness, I do expect Notion Thief to be a card in UB Planeswalkers if the room can be found for yet another 4 drop. That deck has the potential to drop it turn 2, although I doubt that that deck wants to keep 4 mana up.