SCD- Notion Thief

[catmint]

Some people played a random Venser so I guess some people will play a random notion thief.

Helping vs all blue control/midrange mirrors as well as helping against show-grisel and show/omni - dream-halls into enter the infinite will surely make him earn his spot as a 1-2of in some decks depending on the meta and how the deck is built.

It is a card but not archetype defining or format staple.

[Finn]

It primarily hoses Jace and brainstorm, yes?

Why aren't you just playing Jace and brainstorm?

Narrow blue solutions to ubiquitous blue spells are useless.

[bruizar]

Narrow blue solutions to ubiquitous blue spells are useless.

Blue is the most ubiquitous top tier colour and blue ubiquitous spells therefore make the blue solutions not so narrow.

[alderon666]

This should have been a hatebear. Imagine playing it on turn 2 and then countering their removal. Now they can't even cast Brainstorm to dig for another removal spell... TROLOLOL

[bruizar]

This should have been a hatebear. Imagine playing it on turn 2 and then countering their removal. Now they can't even cast Brainstorm to dig for another removal spell... TROLOLOL

Sounds like meddling mage on brainstorm

[PirateKing]

I still think this should have been a red hatebear that doesn't steal draws, just denied them.
It's bothersome that the best way to ruin blue is to play blue back at them.

[menace13]

It primarily hoses Jace and brainstorm, yes?

Why aren't you just playing Jace and brainstorm?

Narrow blue solutions to ubiquitous blue spells are useless.

It goes into the same decks that play them. It is one sided. It has keyword awesome.

I don't know how much of a solution it is, but it works.

Your opponent lands Jace then Bstorms, you get to steal 3 cards, make him redraw dead for 2 draws, and 3 power kills the Jace.

What it does to cantrips is also not so narrow, really. Most games get down to a player cantripping- saved or top decked- mid-late game into answers to a threat in play or to set up their own threats. This not only has the chance to walk someone into its steal your draws ability, it preemptively denies use of any further drawn cantrips. It complicates Enter the Infinite, Time Spiral, Standstill- stretching here, but can break your own!11. And Griselbrand, they will not be drawing 7, at anytime. Ok, mebbe 1 on your turn if desperate.

[Barook]

I still think this should have been a red hatebear that doesn't steal draws, just denied them.
It's bothersome that the best way to ruin blue is to play blue back at them.

Chains is a black ability, not red.

I still hope we get a 2/1 flash version without the draw steal for one day.

[Rizso]

Tbh Notion Thief is quite reasonable in the matchups where its actaully good. The mana cost isnt so punishing in thoes. Also it shares human with dark confidant incase you would play acavern of souls.

[PirateKing]

Chains is a black ability, not red.

No, Chains is a black card. Further, Chains of Mephistopheles does a whole lot more then just denying draws to players. Plus it is from fucking Legends. Do you really want to argue on the color identity of 1994 Magic?

A red hatebear that denies all players additional draws is perfectly flavorful, since red is dumb and blue is smart, so the smartest thing red can do is force blue to play on their level. One draw a turn, just like God intended.

[TsumiBand]

No, Chains is a black card. Further, Chains of Mephistopheles does a whole lot more then just denying draws to players. Plus it is from fucking Legends. Do you really want to argue on the color identity of 1994 Magic?

A red hatebear that denies all players additional draws is perfectly flavorful, since red is dumb and blue is smart, so the smartest thing red can do is force blue to play on their level. One draw a turn, just like God intended.

Well I think it's more "Red is impulse and Blue is intellect", but that's picayune.

I seem to recall saying as much before in the original spoiler for this guy, but the design suffers from the whole "only another ginger" effect that is inherent with messing with card drawing. It's always, "Oh, a card that affects card drawing, eh? Well let's see, that's always Blue, so there's just no way that could ever happen outside of Blue, because it's just a Blue thing to do, after all!" even though the rawest resource in the game is 'cards' so that just fundamentally puts the color in an amazing position from the starting gun.

I initially disagreed with Finn when the comment was made, "why hose Jace when you can just play Jace" but on further reflection I think I have to fall in line with the sentiment. Jace is actually a fantastically recursive example of this mentality warping the game; the most ubiquitous planeswalker in the game, with the most relevant ability/abilities because it says "draw three cards" on it, that thanks to the rules of the game surrounding planeswalkers is also an answer to itself (when I Jace you Jace we sacrifice). Since the potential exists to be far more proactive with a Jace in play than a "Jace answer" in play, it is difficult to argue against the idea that the best answer to an opponent's 4x Jace is your own.

Notion Thief is a hilarious gotcha card, but by virtue of the fact that it has Awesome, it may actually be worse off because if it is a finely-tuned answer to Jace, then it may not be as good as just playing Jace yourself. Had it been outside of Blue, it might be a different story, but that would never happen because "derp, it messes with card drawing and that has to be Blue". Bluhh.

[Mr. Safety]

Yeah, I agree. It'll be a card you have to watch out for, but it won't be the card you have to watch out for. When your oppoent has you dead, and you need to cast brainstorm to dig for an out, of course you still cast it; if they have Notion Theif, they have Notion Theif. But some people will be ahead on board, and cast Brainstorm just because they have it, Notion Theif punishes that. And that's kind of a negative I see against it, its either win more or it punishes bad plays.

I absolutely LOVE punishing bad plays. It's an integral part of the game, honestly. So much happens in a Legacy game, on the surface and much deeper, that it's difficult to always make great plays. The difference is, as the Notion Thief player, you've got a hand grenade waiting for the right moment to toss into the game. You can play the game with a greater focus on capitalizing on your opponents mistakes rather than being the aggressor. This is why draw-go control works so well with Notion Thief. You can leave lands open and have:

1) Counterspells
2) Removal
3) Notion Theif
4) NONE OF THEM but bluff it anyways, because that's how some people will approach the matchup.

I also love virtual card advantage. Any time I can get free value out of including a card in my deck, I like it. It's similar to playing Daze game 1, then siding 3 out game 2. They still play around Daze...even though it isn't even there, really.

I think the more times the community sees Notion Thief in action, the more the community will warm up to him. Me? I don't trust the sticky-handed bastard. That's why I want to be the Thief player, and not my opponent.

[Mr. Safety]

It goes into the same decks that play them. It is one sided. It has keyword awesome.

I don't know how much of a solution it is, but it works.

Your opponent lands Jace then Bstorms, you get to steal 3 cards, make him redraw dead for 2 draws, and 3 power kills the Jace.

What it does to cantrips is also not so narrow, really. Most games get down to a player cantripping- saved or top decked- mid-late game into answers to a threat in play or to set up their own threats. This not only has the chance to walk someone into its steal your draws ability, it preemptively denies use of any further drawn cantrips. It complicates Enter the Infinite, Time Spiral, Standstill- stretching here, but can break your own!11. And Griselbrand, they will not be drawing 7, at anytime. Ok, mebbe 1 on your turn if desperate.

I play Children of Korliss, Griselbrand. You control Notion Thief. I force you to draw 28 cards and mill you out. Like a BAWSS.

[Mr. Safety]

Blue is the most ubiquitous top tier colour and blue ubiquitous spells therefore make the blue solutions not so narrow.

+1

[menace13]

I play Children of Korliss, Griselbrand. You control Notion Thief. I force you to draw 28 cards and mill you out. Like a BAWSS.

That was so cool.

They draw 14, you activate children, opponent stps grisel w child korlis ability still on stack.

[twndomn]

Some people played a random Venser so I guess some people will play a random notion thief.

Do you understand the interaction between Venser and Karakas? If you do, you would not use random to describe what's commonly done in Legacy blue decks.

[catmint]

Do you understand the interaction between Venser and Karakas? If you do, you would not use random to describe what's commonly done in Legacy blue decks.

Unfortunately by focusing on beeing a douchebag you missed my point which is: Very situational lategame value from a 1of (like Venser) is comparable to a very situational lategame value from a 1of like notion thief. These things are played and viable.

[Higgs]

Making Notion Thief blue looks like a very clever move to me. It has the possibility of creating Notion Thief on Notion Thief action in blue mirrors to get the upper hand, therefore all blue decks losing some of their edge against the rest of the field to battle each other. It reminds me a bit of the the discussion about unrestricting LOA in Vintage. And all this without creating a non-blue in your face blue hate, without polarizing blue and non-blue decks. I like the card.

[Malakai]

Note that the draws with Notion Thief are not optional, so Enter the Infinite is "Suspend 1: Win the game."

Edit: No, I'm wrong. If their library has more cards in it than yours, you're dead. If they have less, which is quite probable considering combo decks proclivity for cantrips, well, hopefully you can kill them in a couple turns.

[TsumiBand]

Note that the draws with Notion Thief are not optional, so Enter the Infinite is "Suspend 1: Win the game."

Edit: No, I'm wrong. If their library has more cards in it than yours, you're dead. If they have less, which is quite probable considering combo decks proclivity for cantrips, well, hopefully you can kill them in a couple turns.

That's pretty funny, actually. The Notion Thief controller draws the cards, then their opponent puts one back and has no maximum hand size. See that Legacy? You've already got maindeck answers to Thief - good ol' Omniscience -> Enter the Infinite.