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Thread: [Deck] ATS (Angry Tradewind Survival) - Former DTB

  1. #1
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    ATS is currently the strongest deck in the format. It has put up very impressive top8 results around the U.S., not to mention it is supported by the strongest card in the format, Survival of the Fittest.

    ATS by Di, 11/29/04

    4 Windswept Heath
    2 Wooded Foothills
    4 Tropical Island
    1 Taiga
    2 Savannah
    5 Forest
    4 Birds of Paradise
    3 Wall of Roots
    1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary

    4 Survival of the Fittest
    3 Enlightened Tutor
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    2 Mana Leak

    4 Tradewind Rider
    2 Quirion Ranger
    2 Eternal Witness
    1 Seedborn Muse
    1 Gilded Drake
    1 Mystic Snake

    1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
    1 Genesis
    1 Anger

    1 Masticore
    1 Uktabi Orangutan
    1 Elvish Lyrist
    1 Spore Frog

    Sideboard:
    2 Null Rod
    2 Naturalize
    1 Absolute Law
    1 Dense Foliage
    2 Choke
    1 Back to Basics
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Worship
    1 Silent Arbiter
    1 Spike Feeder
    1 Propaganda
    1 Caller of the Claw

    The deck, in its current form, has everything it needs to go into any matchup with positive results. Running the toolbox engine allows it to be the most flexible deck in the format. I really think we've talked about this enough though, so I'll shut up now.

    Comments:
    -I could only fit 3 Enlightened Tutor into the deck. If I was to run a 4th, it'd replace Brainstorm, which is the 16th blue card. I refuse to go under 16 blue, and a trio of Enlightened Tutors are working great as is.

    -Manabase is the same, all with the exception of the Savannah. The Enlightened Tutor's are too damn good not to use in here, so white is used.

    -With Enlightened Tutor, it's safe to run a 1-ofs of a few artifacts/enchantments, such as the huge bomb Worship(gg red), as well as another few Chokes, Dense Foliage, Silent Arbiter, Null Rod, etc.

    Discuss and Enjoy.

    Link to former ATS discussion. Please read before posting here.

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    I don't believe I have seen this mentioned anyplace, but my ATS deck is slightly different. -1 Tropical Island, -1 Brainstorm +1 Sylvan Library. That cuts me down to sixty cards. Also, I have used Miscalculate twice in tournaments with very positive results (Used it in the mana leak/Stifle slots.) It countered spells when it needed to, and it was cycled when it needed to be. 15 Blue cards is fine with this deck, even with force of wills and brianstorms being seven of them. Your running survival, so if you play a turn two survival, any creature in your hand becomes blue at the cost of 1 green mana. Just a couple comments.
    Still kickin' it combo school.

  3. #3
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    How often have you found the cycling useful? It would seem to me that when you have the mana to cycle and do other things at the same time, you might as well just do other things with an additional two mana. It seems like a win-more card to me.
    -Slay
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    Team Slay and Lego: Slay your a tool and your glasses are almost as GAY as your retarded snitch of a boyfriend Lego. Lego focus on your own game you are a fucking clown and should have heard the rediculous amount of people saying how much of a dick you were being and what kind of a fool you are. I laugh at you two. Seriously you both need attitude adjustments. I have never encountered a larger pair of pussy bitches in my whole life.

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    One instance where I found the cycling extremly useful was when I ran out of creatures in hand while setting up. Being able to dig even one card deeper might net you that creature you need to use for survival, or perhaps even a brainstorm. I just put it down as an option. I origonally put in the Miscalculates because I couldn't find any of my stronghold mana leaks, and I refuse to use non-foil 8th edition cards (White boarder=eek!) So I decided to try it out. It works nice, because it gives you options, and I have not ever countered a spell beyond turn three, except for maybe the occational board sweeping effect.
    Still kickin' it combo school.

  5. #5
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    I don't believe I have seen this mentioned anyplace, but my ATS deck is slightly different. -1 Tropical Island, -1 Brainstorm +1 Sylvan Library. That cuts me down to sixty cards
    Why exactly would you cut a land? And a Tropical Island at that. The deck's manabase is extremely tight in it's current state, and removing any lands can be disasterous considering you also removed a Brainstorm. I really don't see any need for Sylvan Library in the deck anymore. If you draw into Enlightened Tutor and you don't actually want them(thus you have a Survival in play), there is no need for Sylvan Library.

    Miscalculation is interesting, but Mana Leak really soars over it. The one mana doesn't seem like much, but in most cases it's absolutely huge. I'm not sure how strong the cycling really is, so I'll give it a shot, but the fact that I replace an already weak counter with an even weaker one is really leaning against me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diablos
    Why exactly would you cut a land? And a Tropical Island at that. The deck's manabase is extremely tight in it's current state, and removing any lands can be disasterous considering you also removed a Brainstorm. I really don't see any need for Sylvan Library in the deck anymore. If you draw into Enlightened Tutor and you don't actually want them(thus you have a Survival in play), there is no need for Sylvan Library.

    Miscalculation is interesting, but Mana Leak really soars over it. The one mana doesn't seem like much, but in most cases it's absolutely huge. I'm not sure how strong the cycling really is, so I'll give it a shot, but the fact that I replace an already weak counter with an even weaker one is really leaning against me.
    @ The land thing:

    To put it quite frank, As I am good at, I flood too often in the middle game with 18 lands in a 61 card deck. I know this sounds ludicrus, but I hate it when I am drawing land every turn due to the fact that a lot of the good stuff is out or in the graveyard. ATS is a very aggresive deck for mulliganing in the first place. To each his own. The reason it was a tropical island is because with 13 blue sources, it hasn't been incredably difficult to get the blue mana when you need it, especially when you conciter that you really only need blue around turns 3-5.

    @ Miscalculate: Yeah, Like I said, they are just temporary replacements. It's nice to cycle when you have a part of the lock, but just need one or two more creatures to fully lock down without the survival in play and when you need it.
    Still kickin' it combo school.

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    As far as the main deck goes, I think the list is/is close to an optimized build. However, the sideboard is a different story. I have been running with the silver bullets strategy in the sideboard, with the only multiples being Choke's and Naturalize's. But with the diminishing power of control, I have cut the Choke count to 1 and made room for 4 copies of Tranquil Doman's, my reasoning for this being that, at least in my metagame, I consider my only unfavorable matchups being solidarity and enchantress. I have also been testing out techy, and often janky silver bullets such as Living Lands and Kamahl with very unimpressive results. Also, I have been trying to find some "good" tech against Solidarity, also with unimpressive results. They usually respond to Blessing by either casting another Brain Freeze, or by just Stroke'ing me out in response. Stifle stops one Brain Freeze, but when they cast BF two and three I scoop it up. I really think the Blessing is the former of the two choices is the only option, seeing as how it doesn't usually beat them but if they can't play around it, there is a good chance that I will win.
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  8. #8
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    As far as the main deck goes, I think the list is/is close to an optimized build. However, the sideboard is a different story. I have been running with the silver bullets strategy in the sideboard, with the only multiples being Choke's and Naturalize's. But with the diminishing power of control, I have cut the Choke count to 1 and made room for 4 copies of Tranquil Doman's, my reasoning for this being that, at least in my metagame, I consider my only unfavorable matchups being solidarity and enchantress. I have also been testing out techy, and often janky silver bullets such as Living Lands and Kamahl with very unimpressive results. Also, I have been trying to find some "good" tech against Solidarity, also with unimpressive results. They usually respond to Blessing by either casting another Brain Freeze, or by just Stroke'ing me out in response. Stifle stops one Brain Freeze, but when they cast BF two and three I scoop it up. I really think the Blessing is the former of the two choices is the only option, seeing as how it doesn't usually beat them but if they can't play around it, there is a good chance that I will win.
    I've been shaky about the sideboard as well. For the most part, I'm not satisfied with Propoganda's slot. Although it's strong in matchups such as Goblins or R/G Survival, forcing them to make difficult choices, it's generally regarded as a weak option against those decks, as they can handle them with ease. I've debated running a second Silent Arbiter or Peacekeeper, which to tell you the truth is really appealing, although it's fragility may prove to make it a poor choice.

    As for Solidarity, which is a rather popular deck in Syracuse with roughly 4-5 people playing the deck not including myself, I've gone with Arcane Lab again, which was originally in the sideboard as an anti-FCG target, but it does it's job in here as long as it can be protected long enough for Tradewind to hit the table to clear out lands. Another option, albeit rather stretching a bit, is Chains of Mephistopheles. The card absolutely destroys Solidarity, turning their draw into extreme disadvantage. It's really tough when going into foils for stopping the deck unfortunately, because it has the ability to respond to everything, making cards like Scald and Price of Glory uneffective. If someone can finally find a suitable answer to that madness, please spill it.

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    I was also rather dissatisfied with Propaganda, and I actually cut it after the Lotus tourney, largely due to the fact that it wasn't very effective versus any of the aggro decks I played against that day. Peacekeeper is an interesting choice, but as you said, the toughness of one makes it way too vulnerable against the matchups where it matters.
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  10. #10
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    I was also rather dissatisfied with Propaganda, and I actually cut it after the Lotus tourney, largely due to the fact that it wasn't very effective versus any of the aggro decks I played against that day. Peacekeeper is an interesting choice, but as you said, the toughness of one makes it way too vulnerable against the matchups where it matters.
    True, but in matchups that it'd be boarded in against, most namely R/G Survival and Goblins, it can be protected with Absolute Law or Dense Foliage. Also, another card I forgot to mention earlier in regards to the Propoganda slot was Dawnstrider. It may need haste to be what you want, but it saves a bit of mana.

    For reference:

    Dawnstrider 1G
    Creature - Spellshaper
    G, tap, Discard a card from your hand: Prevent all combat damage that would be dealt this turn.
    1/1

    Still fragile, and similiar to Peacekeeper, bit it's in the main color.

  11. #11
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    I can't see why you wouldn't just add CoP:Red.

    It will do wonders vs. Goblin Sligh, and even R/G Survival.
    It can stall for enough time to drop the Worship that ends the game against R/G, and it just flat out beats Goblin Sligh.

    Arcane Lab seems quite good against solidarity to me. Since when can ATS not counter 1 bounce spell a turn.


    Edit: Arcane Lab not Propaganda (Must not be getting enough sleep again. My appologies :D ).
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  12. #12

    Ray D 3: I think you meant Arcane Lab or Rule of Law, rather than Propaganda, am I right?

  13. #13
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    I can't see why you wouldn't just add CoP:Red.

    It will do wonders vs. Goblin Sligh, and even R/G Survival.
    It can stall for enough time to drop the Worship that ends the game against R/G, and it just flat out beats Goblin Sligh.
    I don't know about ending the game against R/G Survival. Post board R/G Survival brings in at least 4 naturalizes, plus it has a good chance of keeping ATS's creatures off the board with sharpshooter and FTKs. Although sometimes it may win the game, it is far from being always game over. COP read only stops one creature in the whole deck, I wouldn't side it in, I just don't think it is powerful enough in that matchup.

    As for the mono red matchup the COP could work fine, but I don't know about you but I've seen very little mono red in the format, so I don't think that would justify COP:red. But if you run into it and it is beating you then I guess the COP would be a fine choice.

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    can't see why you wouldn't just add CoP:Red.

    It will do wonders vs. Goblin Sligh, and even R/G Survival.
    It can stall for enough time to drop the Worship that ends the game against R/G, and it just flat out beats Goblin Sligh.
    I'm assuming that you've never actually tested CoP:Red against those matchups, have you? If you have, you will have found that CoP and Survival decks have about 0 synergy whatsoever. ATS is pretty much tapping out every turn to dset up the board and counter threats, often leaving less than two mana available to do other things. CoP is really only good if you have enough mana to prevent every single threat they have, and with Goblin Sligh that is often four to five creatures + burn. The deck can't afford to use CoP every turn, even with a Rofellos out, which is why it generally runs Absolute Law + Worship in the sideboard.
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  15. #15

    Any smart red deck player , will have Anarchy is his sideboard or be able to Burning Wish for it. That pretty much takes care of Worship and COP's. But what do i know? I rarely play Red decks. Just a thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by superfly
    Any smart red deck player , will have Anarchy is his sideboard or be able to Burning Wish for it. That pretty much takes care of Worship and COP's.
    This logic is flawed. Speaking from experience on the red decks I have piloted and seen lately, Sligh/Burn decks only run Anarchy if they are expecting White Weenie or Angel Stompy and the like. I gaurantee if they have a feeling there will be 0-2 White decks they will not waste valuable sideboard slots devoted to Anarchy that could be better used to help other matchups. Hence, the Anarchy Theory doesn't exactly hold up for this. (Note: As an aside, these decks also tend to run slim amounts of mana sources and any land past 3 gets tossed or sacced to Fireblast, so reaching Anarchy mana is not always a reliable option.)

    Goblin Sligh style decks have mostly transformed to R/w decks, with sideboard options such as Disenchant and Seal of Cleansing. Why run the very narrow Anarchy when you could run the Survival hosing Disenchant/Seal and hit Worship, CoP, Vedalken Shackles, Chalice, Chill, etc. with the splash damage.

    So, the only decks that I can think of that are supported by your "Smart Red Player" theory doesn't really stand up too well. The only decks I can think of that would actually run Anarchy are:

    A.) Yet to be developed B.Wish toolbox varients (I have seen no decks of this design style yet.)
    B.) Mono-R Goblin Sligh
    C.) RDW varients

    And even then, as said, I wouldn't waste slots on Anarchy unless I knew ahead of time that the metagame would consist of multiple White decks (WWW, Angel Stompy, etc.) No offense intended, but the smart red players will likely be running more flexible slots instead of devoting them to Anarchy for just Worship/CoP:R in ATS.
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    Any smart red deck player , will have Anarchy is his sideboard or be able to Burning Wish for it. That pretty much takes care of Worship and COP's. But what do i know? I rarely play Red decks. Just a thought.
    I don't think it's worth adding a four mana sorcery to stop all but two cards in a deck. And even if it mattered that much, the ATS player has enough counter to stop Anarchy if they have to for some reason.

    Also, Cop:Red not only has terrible synergy with Survival, but it doesn't stop Ravenous Baloth, which is another playset of creatures hitting my face.

    Arcane Lab seems quite good against solidarity to me. Since when can ATS not counter 1 bounce spell a turn.


    Edit: Arcane Lab not Propaganda (Must not be getting enough sleep again. My appologies
    Arcane Lab is the best thing the deck has within its colors. It's currently in my sideboard now because there are a lot of Solidarity players in Syracuse(currently like 4-5, which is a lot for a deck that dumb).

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    Quote Originally Posted by CorruptedAngel
    Quote Originally Posted by superfly
    Any smart red deck player , will have Anarchy is his sideboard or be able to Burning Wish for it. That pretty much takes care of Worship and COP's.
    This logic is flawed. Speaking from experience on the red decks I have piloted and seen lately, Sligh/Burn decks only run Anarchy if they are expecting White Weenie or Angel Stompy and the like. I gaurantee if they have a feeling there will be 0-2 White decks they will not waste valuable sideboard slots devoted to Anarchy that could be better used to help other matchups. Hence, the Anarchy Theory doesn't exactly hold up for this. (Note: As an aside, these decks also tend to run slim amounts of mana sources and any land past 3 gets tossed or sacced to Fireblast, so reaching Anarchy mana is not always a reliable option.)

    Goblin Sligh style decks have mostly transformed to R/w decks, with sideboard options such as Disenchant and Seal of Cleansing. Why run the very narrow Anarchy when you could run the Survival hosing Disenchant/Seal and hit Worship, CoP, Vedalken Shackles, Chalice, Chill, etc. with the splash damage.

    So, the only decks that I can think of that are supported by your "Smart Red Player" theory doesn't really stand up too well. The only decks I can think of that would actually run Anarchy are:

    A.) Yet to be developed B.Wish toolbox varients (I have seen no decks of this design style yet.)
    B.) Mono-R Goblin Sligh
    C.) RDW varients

    And even then, as said, I wouldn't waste slots on Anarchy unless I knew ahead of time that the metagame would consist of multiple White decks (WWW, Angel Stompy, etc.) No offense intended, but the smart red players will likely be running more flexible slots instead of devoting them to Anarchy for just Worship/CoP:R in ATS.
    I've been playing Sligh for three years now between T1 and 1.5, and I can count the number of times that my board hasn't contained 3 Anarchy on one hand. Yes, there are a lot of times that you won't see a matchup requiring them. The thing is, when you do see one, you'll lose without it. So you have:

    1. Have it and not need it.
    2. Need it and not have it.

    How'd that old saying go again? A well built Sligh needs very few things in board, simply because generally, it's fast enough to run over just about anything without the addition of board cards and also because if you're going to run a board card in a deck that seeks to win in 5 turns with disruption that has no draw, it'd better have a wide reaching and fucking amazing ability. There's only 3 real categories of standard board cards for mono-red, and those are anti-white cards (Sulfuric Vortex, Anarchy), anti-blue cards (Scald, BEB) and anti-nonbasic cards(PoP[if it's not MD], Blood Moon). Then there are a few matchup specific cards (Tormod's Crypt, Disenchant, Rack and Ruin) that generally round out the board. Of course, half the reason that nobody respects red is because half the people that play it don't know the first thing about building Sligh.
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  19. #19
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    Move on. We are discussing Sligh more than ATS. Go to the Sligh/Burn thread for discussion about Sligh's SB choices.
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  20. #20

    I may be out of line, but it seems as though all of you ATS lovers are afraid of Humility. If you guys truly believe that ATS is the top deck (which I don't dispute that it IS a top contender), then maybe you NEED to listen to what people have to say about Humility decks, because a deck like that wrecks you. I just figured it may be good discussion, as far as what an ATS deck can/should do about a Humility deck. Humility decks WILL be out there. You can bank on it. Again, not trying to be out of line, but I seriously think Humility decks are a MAJOR threat to ATS, and we should be discussing ways to deal with it which is why I posted my build of Humility. Thank you.

    Discuss issues w/moderation via PM please.

    -braves54321




    Edited By braves54321 on 1105018374

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