Exact Same Named Cards Swapped in Tournament or Match

[Freggle]

If this question does not belong in this section or on this forum please delete or move it accordingly.

I have searched this question on the forum but didn't see it answered here. I also did preliminary Google searches and it yielded inconclusive results.

Is it tournament legal to swap same named cards 1-for-1 during a tournament?

For example you buy a sweet black bordered dual land between rounds 3 & 4 and you want to swap it for your Revised for the rest of the tournament. Can you do that?

Additionally, if you were eccentric and wanted to have (2) exact same 75 card decks and you wanted to swap between games in rounds, lets say (1) English version deck and one German version deck is that legal?

It's probably suspicious and more trouble than it's worth, but I would just like to know.

I'm considering buying Walds, but really like my tropical looking Mirage Forests, and was wondering if I could play with both independently in the same event.

Strange I know.

[Lemnear]

Yes, you can do all that. You might get watched, deckchecked by a Judge if players Note that you Switch Decks/cards just to alter the language between rounds. Communicate with the Judge to prevent irritation

[Chmur]

I've done that once to add even more foils to my deck I managed to trade in between rounds. I didn't even think twice about not going to the judge station with it - and I think that's the proper way to avoid any future issues with someone seeing you swap cards. Just find a judge that's not busy at the moment, explain your intent and swap the cards in front of him.

[lochlan]

I'm considering buying Walds

No judge at a serious event is going to let you play with the Plains/Wald misprint, it's too confusing. You could probably get away with it at locals.

[Justin]

No judge at a serious event is going to let you play with the Plains/Wald misprint, it's too confusing. You could probably get away with it at locals.

Is that right? What about other misprints that might be confusing to some players, such as a Revised version of Serendib Efreet?

[cdr]

As long as the new card is legal and not marked, swap all you want. I don't recommend it in limited, though.

Misprints that are confusing - like the misprinted Wald - are pretty much universally disallowed at competitive events. Revised Serendib is not generally confusing.

[Julian23]

I've been asking this question to judges at several GPs and none was 100% certain about what the correct handling would be:

When am I allowed to exchange my Arabian Nights City of Brass for a different edition one? I'm asking because I've seen people play City in a Bottle in Vintage to combat Bazaar of Baghdad. During a game? Would it be considered unsporting conduct if I tore it apart, making a replacement inevitable?

[PirateKing]

Julian23

I asked #mtgjudge and they are fighting over it as I write this. The most consistent ruling follows that to swap a card out in between games would look like illegal sideboarding, regardless that it is the same card. In between matches is the safest guarantee, since the scope of deck registration is card name and quantity, so even if your opponent objected, you would have the same legal list as you registered. Nobody is comfortable swapping mid game.

Then they all cop out and say "ask your head judge" because there is no rule or precedent, probably because it has never come up.

[rufus]

...

Don't worry. Your opponent will use Blood Moon to turn it into an Arabian Knights mountain first.


It seems to me that City of Brass should either no longer be an Arabian Knights card and never be affected by City in a Bottle, or that all versions of it should be.

206.3. A spell or ability that affects cards from a particular set checks only for that set's expansion symbol. A card reprinted in the core set or another expansion receives that set's expansion symbol. Any reprinted version of the card no longer counts as part of its original set unless it was reprinted with that set's expansion symbol.

(Since there is a Chronicles reprint with the Arabian Knights symbol, it's arguable that all Cities of Brass have the symbol.)

[Koby]

Don't worry. Your opponent will use Blood Moon to turn it into an Arabian Knights mountain first.


It seems to me that City of Brass should either no longer be an Arabian Knights card and never be affected by City in a Bottle, or that all versions of it should be.



(Since there is a Chronicles reprint with the Arabian Knights symbol, it's arguable that all Cities of Brass have the symbol.)

Chronicles counts as Arabian Nights because it has the Arabian Nights expansion symbol. All other non-AN versions belong to those sets and not AN.

Swapping AN City of Brass for non-AN City of Brass in the middle of a game or match would be illegal. Between rounds would be safe; as no one can realistically track it. As long as the deck is the same 75 cards, you're in the clear -- in general. Specific circumstances are the exception.

[Julian23]

What happens if a dog eats my City during a match, thus making it marked and the only replacement copy I happen to have is a 7th edition one?

[PirateKing]

Nope, judge would issue a proxy, and it would be an Arabian Nights proxy.
Get the dog to bite your opponent so they are sent to seek medical attention and you get a match win.

[rufus]

Chronicles counts as Arabian Nights because it has the Arabian Nights expansion symbol. All other non-AN versions belong to those sets and not AN.

Swapping AN City of Brass for non-AN City of Brass in the middle of a game or match would be illegal. Between rounds would be safe; as no one can realistically track it. As long as the deck is the same 75 cards, you're in the clear -- in general. Specific circumstances are the exception.

It depends on the meaning of reprinted. When we say that a card is reprinted, do we mean that that particular piece of cardboard is a reprint, or do we mean that WotC has printed a card by that name in more than one set?

What happens if a dog eats my City during a match, thus making it marked and the only replacement copy I happen to have is a 7th edition one?

In a sane world, assuming they're different for the purposes of the rules, there would have to be a proxy for the AN version, rather than a replacement with the 7E version. (Of course, deck lists would also have to indicate the expansion etc.)

[aahz]

Chronicles counts as Arabian Nights because it has the Arabian Nights expansion symbol. All other non-AN versions belong to those sets and not AN.

Swapping AN City of Brass for non-AN City of Brass in the middle of a game or match would be illegal. Between rounds would be safe; as no one can realistically track it. As long as the deck is the same 75 cards, you're in the clear -- in general. Specific circumstances are the exception.

As someone who regularly plays with AN Cities alongside Bazaars, I'd like to get a judge confirmation of this. Not that I'd ever really try that, but The More You Know... (I often call my Dredge deck "City in a Bottle" on my decklist anyway; if someone is actually going to play them against me then I figure they deserve to win)

[cdr]

As someone who regularly plays with AN Cities alongside Bazaars, I'd like to get a judge confirmation of this. Not that I'd ever really try that, but The More You Know... (I often call my Dredge deck "City in a Bottle" on my decklist anyway; if someone is actually going to play them against me then I figure they deserve to win)

Yes, expansion symbol defines "set" for purposes of effects that care about set.

206.3. A spell or ability that affects cards from a particular set checks only for that set's expansion symbol.

[aahz]

Yes, expansion symbol defines "set" for purposes of effects that care about set.

206.3. A spell or ability that affects cards from a particular set checks only for that set's expansion symbol.

Sorry, I did not express what I was looking for clearly. I already knew that part.

I should have snipped the quote (but, you know, lazy). I was hoping for clarification on this part:

Swapping AN City of Brass for non-AN City of Brass in the middle of a game or match would be illegal. Between rounds would be safe; as no one can realistically track it. As long as the deck is the same 75 cards, you're in the clear -- in general. Specific circumstances are the exception.

[Koby]

I'm unclear what the ambiguity is. You cannot modify the contents of your deck for a strategic advantage. Playing one round with Arabian Nights CoB, then playing round two with 5th Edition CoB to gain advantage against City in a Bottle is "Cheating - Manipulation of Game Materials" and would receive a Disqualification.

[Anusien]

Talk to the Head Judge on site if you have any concerns.

[cdr]

Sorry, I did not express what I was looking for clearly. I already knew that part.

I should have snipped the quote (but, you know, lazy). I was hoping for clarification on this part:

It's an extreme corner case in tournament policy. Rules generally cover extreme corner cases because they have to, but tournament policy deliberately doesn't.

The head judge of a particular event can make a reasonable ruling if it ever comes up, which it probably won't. (Most likely decision: no, you can't do that.)

[aahz]

Talk to the Head Judge on site if you have any concerns.

Obviously that is the correct approach. *I* would never do something like that anyway (as I said before, if someone wants to play City in a Bottle to hose my Dredge deck, more power to them; they deserve to win. I'd probably even high-five them (well, more like offer to buy them a beer) just for playing an old obscure card like that effectively. My pimp sensibilities would not allow me to play any non-AN Cities anyway since style is a critical part of any awesome Eternal deck).

I'm unclear what the ambiguity is. You cannot modify the contents of your deck for a strategic advantage. Playing one round with Arabian Nights CoB, then playing round two with 5th Edition CoB to gain advantage against City in a Bottle is "Cheating - Manipulation of Game Materials" and would receive a Disqualification.

The ambiguity is not in whether or not that is cheating (as you point out, it obviously is). I just wanted to clarify the small "loophole" in the tournament rules that could allow something like that at a large event. The mechanism to reliably check for this sort of thing (i.e. a deckcheck) won't reveal that anything is wrong. Identifying that this kind of card swapping is even happening requires one or more other people actively paying attention to the offending player/deck across multiple rounds. Even if it is discovered, it becomes a he/she said kind of argument between the accuser and the accused that a judge would have to deal with (and various ways for the accused to have some plausible deniability about whether they were intentionally cheating).

I realize that there are only a few cards/formats where this could even matter and only in really corner case scenarios such that in practice this is mostly irrelevant. I just find it interesting, philosophically speaking, that two cards of the same name are NOT functionally identical and wanted clarification on how exactly it would be handled. It sounds like it depends on how and by whom it is noticed, who is doing it (including what sort of "story" they present if confronted), and who the judge(s) are, meaning that the outcome is very uncertain were this to actually occur.

There is even an obvious and simple fix: cards printed in different sets (with different expansion symbols) need to have expansion included on the decklist. And really it only has to happen for cards in Arabian Nights, Antiquities, and Homelands, thus only even affects Vintage and Legacy.

Again, I know it doesn't matter in any practical sense, but I found the idea interesting, so I wanted clarification about how it would play out to satisfy my intellectual curiosity.