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Thread: Exact Same Named Cards Swapped in Tournament or Match

  1. #21
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    Re: Exact Same Named Cards Swapped in Tournament or Match

    I know it's pretty rare but if you play Vintage you very likely know Marc Lanigra. He recently ran City in a Bottle in his sideboard at a tournament in Germany and raped some face with it.


    Are there any other very niche issues that aren't 100% covered by the rules? I'm really interested in Magic oddities.
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    5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Exact Same Named Cards Swapped in Tournament or Match

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    I know it's pretty rare but if you play Vintage you very likely know Marc Lanigra. He recently ran City in a Bottle in his sideboard at a tournament in Germany and raped some face with it.
    I've seen City in a Bottle in multiple Vintage decklists over the years. I keep meaning to get some for the WTF!?! factor, but haven't gotten around to it yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    Are there any other very niche issues that aren't 100% covered by the rules? I'm really interested in Magic oddities.
    +1

  3. #23

    Re: Exact Same Named Cards Swapped in Tournament or Match

    Quote Originally Posted by cdr View Post
    Yes, expansion symbol defines "set" for purposes of effects that care about set.

    206.3. A spell or ability that affects cards from a particular set checks only for that set's expansion symbol.
    I assumed chronicles stuff is considered chronicles and not from the set which is printed on the card? Wouldn't a chronicles city of brass by subject to city in a bottle because of the AN symbol printed on it?

  4. #24
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    Re: Exact Same Named Cards Swapped in Tournament or Match

    Quote Originally Posted by phonics View Post
    I assumed chronicles stuff is considered chronicles and not from the set which is printed on the card? Wouldn't a chronicles city of brass by subject to city in a bottle because of the AN symbol printed on it?
    Chronicles has no unique expansion symbol. It maintains the same symbol of the card it was reprinting from.
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  5. #25
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    Re: Exact Same Named Cards Swapped in Tournament or Match

    206.3. A spell or ability that affects cards from a particular set checks only for that set's expansion symbol.

    So how about misprints with the wrong expansion symbol? I assume as per Oracle, those would be considered having the "real" expansion symbol?
    The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
    1. Discuss the unbanning of Land Tax Earthcraft.
    2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
    3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
    4. Stifle Standstill.
    5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
    6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
    7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).

  6. #26

    Re: Exact Same Named Cards Swapped in Tournament or Match

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    206.3. A spell or ability that affects cards from a particular set checks only for that set's expansion symbol.

    So how about misprints with the wrong expansion symbol? I assume as per Oracle, those would be considered having the "real" expansion symbol?
    Cards are considered to have their official Oracle wording, yes - expansion symbol included.
    “It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.
    -David DeLaney

  7. #27

    Re: Exact Same Named Cards Swapped in Tournament or Match

    Quote Originally Posted by cdr View Post
    Cards are considered to have their official Oracle wording, yes - expansion symbol included.
    So the eight different City of Brasses in oracle are considered to be different cards for that purpose?

  8. #28
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    Re: Exact Same Named Cards Swapped in Tournament or Match

    Yup. So don't run AN Cities of Brass, or some MUD player will blow you out eventually ^^
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    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  9. #29
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    Re: Exact Same Named Cards Swapped in Tournament or Match

    Bear in mind that Arabian Nights and Chronicles share their expansion symbol. Therefore copies from Chronicles are actually considered being from Arabian Nights.
    The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
    1. Discuss the unbanning of Land Tax Earthcraft.
    2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
    3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
    4. Stifle Standstill.
    5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
    6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
    7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).

  10. #30

    Re: Exact Same Named Cards Swapped in Tournament or Match

    I'd rather lose to CiaB than play some hideous City of Brass reprint.

    #getoffmylawn

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    Re: Exact Same Named Cards Swapped in Tournament or Match

    How are misprints handled? Does Golgothian Sylex kill a Chronicles Wall of Shadows (all are printed with Antiquities symbol but was originally in Legends) but not the original one?

    What about split card misprints? If most of a card was say a Chronicles Nicol Bolas but part of it was a Chronicles Ernham Djinn (AN), what would happen? I believe the ruling with split card misprints if that you can treat it as a split card with both cards as long as enough of each card is clear on the printing. Is that correct? If you had it in play as a Nicol Bolas, could City in a Bottle kill it since it also has an AN symbol attached to the Oracle version of the Ernham Djinn (and hence on the card), or would that part of the card be ignored on the battlefield since you cast it as Nicol Bolas? If you cast it as Ernham Djinn, would City then kill it even if the Ernham Djinn had no expansion symbol at all on the misprint (cut off)? Are you supposed to assume it is the Chronicles version because it is attached to a Chronicles Nicol Bolas, and thus must be AN since the Chronicles Ernham is AN? Or would it adopt the symbol on Nicol Bolas (Legends)?

  12. #32

    Re: Exact Same Named Cards Swapped in Tournament or Match

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    How are misprints handled? Does Golgothian Sylex kill a Chronicles Wall of Shadows (all are printed with Antiquities symbol but was originally in Legends) but not the original one?
    Already answered above.

    I believe the ruling with split card misprints if that you can treat it as a split card with both cards as long as enough of each card is clear on the printing. Is that correct?
    That is not correct. Misprints with more than one card showing are considered to be the card with the name showing. A head judge can disallow any misprint that (in their judgment) is likely to be confusing.
    “It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.
    -David DeLaney

  13. #33
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    Re: Exact Same Named Cards Swapped in Tournament or Match

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    206.3. A spell or ability that affects cards from a particular set checks only for that set's expansion symbol.

    So how about misprints with the wrong expansion symbol? I assume as per Oracle, those would be considered having the "real" expansion symbol?
    And what about that Pristine Talisman from Mirrodin Pure?
    There's an expansion symbol but the expansion never existed. I assume its considered at a NPH card?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    I facepalm so hard in Public that hipsters gonna make this a new trend

  14. #34

    Re: Exact Same Named Cards Swapped in Tournament or Match

    Quote Originally Posted by Kayradis View Post
    And what about that Pristine Talisman from Mirrodin Pure?
    There's an expansion symbol but the expansion never existed. I assume its considered at a NPH card?
    There are no non-Un cards I know of that affect cards with modern expansion symbols, but yes, I would say it's a NPH symbol - only the NPH is in Gatherer.
    “It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.
    -David DeLaney

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    Re: Exact Same Named Cards Swapped in Tournament or Match

    It was just an oddity I was pointing out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    I facepalm so hard in Public that hipsters gonna make this a new trend

  16. #36
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    Re: Exact Same Named Cards Swapped in Tournament or Match

    Forget everything mentioned in this thread so far.

    A card's expansion symbol is tied to the first set it was printed only.

    109.3

    Expansion symbols are no longer a characteristic. Magic cards are recognized as individual game pieces by their English card names. One of the central tenets of that system is that all cards with the same name are considered the same for deck building and play purposes. This system lets us reprint cards, print promo cards, and have cards appear in many languages. But three older cards referred to cards from a specific expansion, and that runs contrary to the system. The Arabian Nights Bird Maiden and the Fourth Edition version should be the same, but City in a Bottle says they're not. In fact, it makes the original version worse!

    So, cards will no longer refer to expansion symbol as a characteristic. The three cards that used to do this (City in a Bottle, Golgothian Sylex, and Apocalypse Chime) will receive errata in a future update to refer to cards "originally printed" in the Arabian Nights, Antiquities, and Homelands sets, respectively). This means that City in a Bottle no longer affects any cards named Mountain. It also means that those three cards can affect cards that were in the appropriate set and then reprinted. City in a Bottle will affect the aforementioned Fourth Edition Bird Maiden.

    References to expansion symbol being a characteristic were removed in several other rules as well.
    http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...re/255c&page=3
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  17. #37
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    Re: Exact Same Named Cards Swapped in Tournament or Match

    Owned

    Quote Originally Posted by new rules of the game
    109.3

    expansion symbols are no longer a characteristic. Magic cards are recognized as individual game pieces by their english card names. One of the central tenets of that system is that all cards with the same name are considered the same for deck building and play purposes. This system lets us reprint cards, print promo cards, and have cards appear in many languages. But three older cards referred to cards from a specific expansion, and that runs contrary to the system. The arabian nights bird maiden and the fourth edition version should be the same, but city in a bottle says they're not. In fact, it makes the original version worse!

    So, cards will no longer refer to expansion symbol as a characteristic. The three cards that used to do this (city in a bottle, golgothian sylex, and apocalypse chime) will receive errata in a future update to refer to cards "originally printed" in the arabian nights, antiquities, and homelands sets, respectively). This means that city in a bottle no longer affects any cards named mountain. It also means that those three cards can affect cards that were in the appropriate set and then reprinted. City in a bottle will affect the aforementioned fourth edition bird maiden.

    References to expansion symbol being a characteristic were removed in several other rules as well.
    edit -- CRAP someone already said this
    Last edited by TsumiBand; 07-12-2013 at 02:04 PM. Reason: oh dangit koby got there first
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  18. #38
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    Re: Exact Same Named Cards Swapped in Tournament or Match

    Quote Originally Posted by Koby View Post
    Forget everything mentioned in this thread so far.

    A card's expansion symbol is tied to the first set it was printed only.



    http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...re/255c&page=3
    Well, that actually solves things pretty nicely, and makes it less confusing. Good change.

  19. #39
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    Re: Exact Same Named Cards Swapped in Tournament or Match

    The implications of this rules change now make it clear that as long as you play the same 75 cards registered by name alone, you should be fine. It will allow you to change cards mid tournament provided they do not provide an in-game advantage (i.e., strategically selected foil cards).
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  20. #40
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    Re: Exact Same Named Cards Swapped in Tournament or Match

    This change really hoses the budget Sea Stompy player. Those green-frame Serendibs are safe no more!
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