[Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

[Ellomdian]

[Mox Diamond]... is simultaneously the best and worst card in the deck.

I think this sums up the biggest difference between the straight UB builds and the Diamond builds - you are rewarded in Power for your concessions to Variance.

[Darkenslight]

Is there ever a point where you would consider Daretti, Scrap Savant as a splash 'walker?

[Undomian]

Is there ever a point where you would consider Daretti, Scrap Savant as a splash 'walker?

I don't think that I'd personally ever play that card in my maindeck. He probably does have some place in Legacy, but its not here. The Welder ability has never been good enough to play outside of the sideboard, and discard-first looting is pretty awful here since we don't want to proactively be Entombing anything. Admittedly, I haven't tested that card, but it just doesn't seem good on paper.

[sdematt]

Might try this list on thursday since I'm not anticipating combo:

4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Dack Fayden
2 Tezzeret the Seeker

3 Transmute Artifact
2 Thirst for Knowledge

2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Baleful Strix
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek
4 Dimir Signet
2 Talisman of Dominance
1 Helm of Obedience

1 The Abyss
4 Leyline of the Void

2 Academy Ruins
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Wasteland

SB: 2 Toxic Deluge
SB: 2 Lodestone Golem
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Caltrops
SB: 1 Crucible of Worlds
SB: 4 Force of Will

I found same games I wasn't digging deep enough, or if I was, I couldn't grab what I needed (Leyline since I had Helm, Abyss, another Walker, etc.). I think Dack has some nice utility and Thirst is bonkers in a deck like this.

[Meekrab]

If you're playing the HelmLine combo maindeck, what do you typically side out against Miracles? I feel like the maindeck is pretty much perfect against them except the 2x Jace.

[sdematt]

I side out the Abyss and 1 Talisman of Dominance for the 2 Engineered Explosives. You're pretty okay against them. Counterbalance lock can suck for getting down the manarocks, but dropping 3's and 4's should be fine.

-Matt

[Meekrab]

I side out the Abyss and 1 Talisman of Dominance for the 2 Engineered Explosives. You're pretty okay against them. Counterbalance lock can suck for getting down the manarocks, but dropping 3's and 4's should be fine.

-Matt

Makes sense, especially since we can usually pay 3+ for EE while still only getting 2 sunburst.

[sdematt]

I went 0-3 on Thursday playing my Dack list. I really liked Dack, but I just didn't draw well at all. Oh well.

-Matt

[Ellomdian]

I went 0-3 on Thursday playing my Dack list. I really liked Dack, but I just didn't draw well at all. Oh well.

-Matt

I don't think I could voluntarily play this deck with 0 FoW between the MD and the SB - it's just too valuable to defend a Chalice or Walker, and you need to have something reactive against Combo. Also, I suspect that the MD Wastelands hurt your consistency much more than they do your opponents - it's a cute trick with the Crucible out of the board, but I feel like you should be making your main combos more resilient, not diluting them with more colorless lands. Same goes for 2x Ruins - Ruins is good enough to justify running one in the main, but 6+ Sol lands means that you don't have a lot of flexibility with colorless sources, and it's Legendary.

I'm also really down on Dack in Legacy TBH - he really doesn't do much in most normal matchups. What are you stealing - ideally, it's going to be a Batterskull, but people probably aren't going to play one into an on-board Dack, and outside of that, there isn't much left for him to take. But, as always, YMMV.

[sdematt]

I play 4 FoW in the board. 2 Dack and 2 Thirst for Knowledge replaced them in the maindeck.

-Matt

[Ellomdian]

I play 4 FoW in the board. 2 Dack and 2 Thirst for Knowledge replaced them in the maindeck.

-Matt

I stand corrected, apparently just did not read the last line of your SB.

But I also stand dubious of the practicality of the colorless utility lands.

[Shawon]

I played the deck last night at my weekly Legacy. First time I played the deck, and first time I ever played another Legacy deck at a tournament. I've been playing Legacy Affinity with Tezzeret for two years now, so I'm way familiar with Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. I didn't have time to sleeve up, so I borrowed my friend's Tezz deck. Went 2-1 against (in order): Miracles (2-0), Moggcatcher (2-1), and Cloudpost (0-2).

The deck was a blast to play, and I loved my friend's SB. I believe it's the older build, with Jace instead of Tezzeret the Seeker. IIRC, the SB was this:

1 Trinisphere
2 Duress
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 The Abyss
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
2 Engineered Plague
2 Lodestone Golem
Can't remember the last card

Again, the deck was fun, and since I have a lot of experience with artifacts, I naturally brainstormed a million cards on my drive home. I think Torpor Orb is interesting, especially in the Cloudpost matchup because it neuters Primeval Titan and it stops SB Bane of Progress (I should say Jeremiah Rudolph and I play in the same weekly lol, so he's the one with Bane in his SB).

I didn't like Academy Ruins. I think it's a good insurance option if your plan gets derailed by attrition, but ultimately, unless you have 10+ mana and Mindslaver going, I think I'd rather have lands that get dangerous on their own if you're just durdling. Are storage lands like Dreadship Reef something to consider?

I like Matt Pavlic's idea of Dack Fayden a lot. Perhaps, we can run 1-2 Treasure Cruise alongside Dack, since Cruise still costs under Trinisphere?

EDIT: OHHH, if we're splashing red, can we use....... Keranos, God of Storms? That card is godly.

EDIT(1): OHHHH again, Keranos + Ensnaring Bridge =

[Undomian]

I stand corrected, apparently just did not read the last line of your SB.

But I also stand dubious of the practicality of the colorless utility lands.

Yeah I have to agree with this. The only reason I feel I can get away with running things like Wasteland in this deck is because of the Diamonds. If you're not playing those to help with your colored mana production, I feel like you will get colorscrewed way more often than usual with all of those extra colorless lands.

[sdematt]

I'm likely going to cut the Wastelands for some sort of either fetch or basic or something. The wastelands, although Korean, have not been stellar. The Academy Ruins are actually quite good. I wouldn't cut them because the attrition you get out of being able to recycle Thopter Foundry, EE, Bridge, Helm, or something, especially against grindy decks, is stellar. It's also god with TfK because you do not have to worry as much about pitching your artifacts.

I like Dack mainly because I found a few problems with the deck. It's a stompy deck - when you draw bad, you draw bad. You need something to dig. Tezzeret digs, but he doesn't hit lands if you need them or enchantments. There have been a few times where I need either more lands, a Leyline, a Tezzeret the Seeker, or the Abyss to seal a game, but Tezzeret doesn't let me draw it. Dack does let you filter a bit better. I REALLY like Thirst for Knowledge, though. That card is great in this deck.

I love the idea of Keranos, but we're already playing so many cards in the 3-5 mana range. The deck is already clunky enough. I think if you weren't playing Leyline-Helm in the maindeck, then I'd totally be on that win condition. It doesn't fit in as well when you do not have Top, but alas, life uhh uhh uhh finds a way.

-Matt

[Darkenslight]

I'm likely going to cut the Wastelands for some sort of either fetch or basic or something. The wastelands, although Korean, have not been stellar. The Academy Ruins are actually quite good. I wouldn't cut them because the attrition you get out of being able to recycle Thopter Foundry, EE, Bridge, Helm, or something, especially against grindy decks, is stellar. It's also god with TfK because you do not have to worry as much about pitching your artifacts.

-Matt

Would you consider playing Ghost Quarter over the Wastes? I have a feeling that they could be highly relevant, considering that most decks only play around 2-3 basics.

[Undomian]

I'm likely going to cut the Wastelands for some sort of either fetch or basic or something. The wastelands, although Korean, have not been stellar. The Academy Ruins are actually quite good. I wouldn't cut them because the attrition you get out of being able to recycle Thopter Foundry, EE, Bridge, Helm, or something, especially against grindy decks, is stellar. It's also god with TfK because you do not have to worry as much about pitching your artifacts.

I like Dack mainly because I found a few problems with the deck. It's a stompy deck - when you draw bad, you draw bad. You need something to dig. Tezzeret digs, but he doesn't hit lands if you need them or enchantments. There have been a few times where I need either more lands, a Leyline, a Tezzeret the Seeker, or the Abyss to seal a game, but Tezzeret doesn't let me draw it. Dack does let you filter a bit better. I REALLY like Thirst for Knowledge, though. That card is great in this deck.

I love the idea of Keranos, but we're already playing so many cards in the 3-5 mana range. The deck is already clunky enough. I think if you weren't playing Leyline-Helm in the maindeck, then I'd totally be on that win condition. It doesn't fit in as well when you do not have Top, but alas, life uhh uhh uhh finds a way.

-Matt

As discussed above, Wasteland probably doesn't belong in a build of the deck without Mox Diamond. We already have issues with consistency in our colored mana sources, so there's no need to increase that kind of variance without compensating somehow for it. The second Ruins is interesting, though I'm not sure how much I want to risk having two of those in my opening hand without a way to get rid of the second one easily. I think of this like having two City of Traitors, though that card is more of a necessary evil than Ruins is.

I'm happy to see that someone else also likes Dack in the deck. I don't think I'd ever replace any of my copies with Thirst, though. I think on average a resolved Dack will allow you to see more cards than Thirst ever will, though it does not provide you with any kind of card advantage. Plus, there's the added utility of his other abilities, which come up more often than one might expect.

Keranos is kind of a cool idea, but I (personally) don't like him for the same reason I tend to edge away from playing with Tezzeret the Seeker. As dumb as it sounds, I find 5 mana to be infinitely more than 4 in this deck - at least with the manabase I like to play with. I played a lot of games with a Batterskull in my deck awhile back where it just sat and rotted in my hand while I had 4 mana onboard. Keranos is a different card, for sure, but I think it would test similarly...

Would you consider playing Ghost Quarter over the Wastes? I have a feeling that they could be highly relevant, considering that most decks only play around 2-3 basics.

What advantage does Ghost Quarter give you over Wasteland? In the build(s) of this deck that actually play Wasteland, the card is more for taking out important utility lands rather than playing some kind of tempo game by manascrewing your opponent. That does happen in some small percentage of games, but you're basically never going to want to target a basic land while piloting this deck.

[sdematt]

Agreed. I think what you really want is either more basics, or more fetches, or more duals. I don't think I want depletion this or that. I just want efficiency.

-Matt

[Shawon]

Matt, I found another problem I noticed playing the deck last night was getting a two-colored combo of / on time. I got myself down to 10 life from TOmbs, with Helm on the board and Leyline (drawn) in my hand with no access to . My Miracles opponent last night was able to Miracle-Entreat for 4 Angels, but I luckily topdecked an Urborg to give myself enough mana to Helm combo and win.

I know the idea is easy to dismiss, but I think Dreadship Reef can actually help the deck with its mana issue, while being stronger the more turns have passed. What's appealing about the amassing of surplus mana is that it makes Transmute Artifact much more affordable and versatile since you can more mana to spend in transmuting.

Of course, Wasteland can undo the work done by Reef, but the deck already runs a lot of nonbasics anyway.

[sdematt]

I'll give it a try tonight and see what's what.

-Matt

[sdematt]

This is what I'll be trying going forward:

4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Transmute Artifact
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Baleful Strix
2 Academy Ruins
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek
4 Dimir Signet
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
2 Talisman of Dominance
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Trinisphere
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

SB: 2 Toxic Deluge
SB: 4 Lodestone Golem
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Caltrops
SB: 4 Force of Will
SB: 1 The Abyss

The thing is, there's tons of times where you do want Trinisphere in the maindeck, similar to the GB Plug deck. You don't have to put it down Turn 1, and it's still valuable afterwards. I ended up cutting Dack since 3 colours was beginning to be a pain to try and fetch out, and he was essentially Faithless Looting most of the time. You want non-artifact dig many times to hit land drops, Transmutes, and others. Trinisphere slows everything down (mostly your opponent), and Jace provides both dig and is a win condition on his own. Tezz isn't a win condition on his own, but it does make it easier to find Thopters to blow them out.

Caltrops and Crypt out of the board may just become Revokers, and I'm toying with the idea of 1 Top in the main. There are times you just want to dig, and you don't always want Chalice at 1. As well, it's easily fetchable through a Chalice at 1 with Transmute Artifact.

Ratchet Bomb is now there since Transmuting for EE is bad unless you want it on zero. However, EE had advantages in that if you have the mana, you can blow it for 0-2 on the turn you have it, so I'm splitting them 1 and 1.

Just thought I'd keep everything updated.

-Matt