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Thread: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

  1. #201
    Judgy Curmudgeon
    Ellomdian's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Quote Originally Posted by Wess View Post
    Why no Thassa in the deck? I just built this deck, and am going for more of a prison-ish build with mox diamonds and 2 trinisphere maindeck. I've tested Thassa, and so far its been an all-star, especially when combined with sweepers (as its indestructible). The scry ability pre activation has also been very useful.
    I toyed around with Thassa immediately after the pre-release, and generally I was just disappointed with her. You almost never hit devotion (Jace+Tezz+Foundry+Thassa works, but why aren't you already winning?) and the scry just didn't seem worth the slot.
    Check out my Legacy UBTezz Primer. Chalice of the Void: Keeping Magic Fair.
    -----
    Playing since '96. Brief forced break '02-04. Former/Idle Judge since '05. Told Smmenen to play faster at Vintage Worlds.
    -----
    Most of the 'Ban brainstorm!' arguments are based on the logic that 'more different cards should get played in Legacy', as though the success or health of the format can be measured by the portion of cards that are available and see play. This is an idiotic metric.

  2. #202

    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellomdian View Post
    I toyed around with Thassa immediately after the pre-release, and generally I was just disappointed with her. You almost never hit devotion (Jace+Tezz+Foundry+Thassa works, but why aren't you already winning?) and the scry just didn't seem worth the slot.
    The scry effect is somewhat less relevant in a format with so much card filtering (BS+fetch, Top etc.)

  3. #203

    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Quote Originally Posted by Undomian View Post
    Played in another local today, and it seems like I still can't quite figure out the BUG Delver matchup. Even with Welders, I just got wrecked. Those same Welders helped to murder my MUD opponent in round 4 though, so those seem as though they might be worth it. I'll have to make a final decision on that whenever I finally get some serious testing in with Dack, though he seems absolutely nutty in the limited testing I have done.
    Undomian, could you please share your welder list? I always loved Welders but never found a viable way to play them in Legacy (Dack may help to this).


    Re Thassa, I think that the Scry ability is pretty relevant in a deck that does not play Brainstorm or ToP and is always looking for bombs (Tezzeret, Jace, Thopther combo), the ability is crucial in filtering dead cards in the mid-late game to continue resolving key cards (specially relevant against control). It is difficult to hit devotion which is another good point as it means that it will stay on the battlefield for the rest of the game (no Swords to Plowshare, Path to Exile, etc). The unblockeable ability is also relevant as for 1U we can make our 5/5 unblockeable...just need 2UU to hit for 10 for sure!

    My main concern is about playing Toxic Deluge main deck or in the board. I think this deck has few answers to resolved threats (we rely so much on Chalice of the Void, Ensnaring Bridge and our PW bombs). I think it could be enough.

  4. #204
    Judgy Curmudgeon
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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Re Thassa, I think that the Scry ability is pretty relevant in a deck that does not play Brainstorm or ToP and is always looking for bombs (Tezzeret, Jace, Thopther combo), the ability is crucial in filtering dead cards in the mid-late game to continue resolving key cards (specially relevant against control). It is difficult to hit devotion which is another good point as it means that it will stay on the battlefield for the rest of the game (no Swords to Plowshare, Path to Exile, etc). The unblockeable ability is also relevant as for 1U we can make our 5/5 unblockeable...just need 2UU to hit for 10 for sure!
    Mid-late game, you should have a Tezz or a JTMS going, or a Tutor online, or have naturally drawn cards. The deck typically doesn't have problems 'resolving' cards against control, as Miracles really does not like having to find/leave a 4 drop on the top of their library, and Decay doesn't hit them either. And as for your lack of devotion being an upside, you are effectively playing an enchantment at that point - and I promise, there are more efficient or powerful enchantments to accomplish the same goal.

    And if you are having problems with deck's blocking your 5/5's in an impactful way that prevents you from winning the game, I would love to know what matchups you are playing...


    Looks like CalebD has an updated list he is streaming with that is forgoing the Transmute package altogether. I have to wonder how much of his list is defined by the online meta vs. the paper one - there are 0 Bridges main, and he has 4 Leyline of the Void in the SB.


    4 Force of Will
    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    3 Thirst for Knowledge
    1 Damnation
    1 Go for the Throat
    4 Thopter Foundry
    4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    4 Baleful Strix
    3 Chalice of the Void
    3 Talisman of Dominance
    3 Sword of the Meek
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    4 Dimir Signet
    1 Karn Liberated
    3 City of Traitors
    2 Darkslick Shores
    2 Island
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Underground Sea
    2 Swamp
    3 Polluted Delta
    1 Seat of the Synod

    -SB-
    3 Duress
    4 Leyline of the Void
    1 Damnation
    1 Go for the Throat
    1 Trinisphere
    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    2 Vendilion Clique
    Check out my Legacy UBTezz Primer. Chalice of the Void: Keeping Magic Fair.
    -----
    Playing since '96. Brief forced break '02-04. Former/Idle Judge since '05. Told Smmenen to play faster at Vintage Worlds.
    -----
    Most of the 'Ban brainstorm!' arguments are based on the logic that 'more different cards should get played in Legacy', as though the success or health of the format can be measured by the portion of cards that are available and see play. This is an idiotic metric.

  5. #205
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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Undomian, could you please share your welder list? I always loved Welders but never found a viable way to play them in Legacy (Dack may help to this).
    Sorry I took so long, literally just saw this post. This is what I've been testing with:
    4 Baleful Strix

    2 Dack Fayden
    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

    1 The Abyss

    4 Force of Will
    2 Transmute Artifact

    4 Chalice of the Void
    2 Engineered Explosives
    1 Sword of the Meek
    3 Thopter Foundry
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Ensnaring Bridge

    4 Mox Diamond
    2 Dimir Signet

    1 Academy Ruins
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    1 Creeping Tar Pit
    2 Island
    2 Misty Rainforest
    3 Polluted Delta
    1 Swamp
    1 Volcanic Island
    3 Underground Sea
    3 Wasteland

    61 cards

    SB:
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Goblin Welder
    1 Liliana of the Veil
    2 Toxic Deluge
    1 Trinisphere
    1 The Abyss
    1 Helm of Obedience
    4 Leyline of the Void
    2 Lodestone Golem

    Welder is in the SB where it comes in against the GBx shells that I side Chalices out against. I imagine you could play with it in the main in the right meta (especially with Dack in the list, as he gives you a chance to recoup the CA lost when you draw one with a Chalice on the field), and I might test that at some point. I would be sorely tempted to try Myr Battlesphere in this kind of strategy too, though that might just be a different deck all together.

    I'm not sure how much I like that CalebD list. With Transmute out of the picture, you're forced to run suboptimal numbers of some things (see: 3 Sword of the Meek) and I also really dislike Karn. It is really powerful to be sure, but 7 mana is SO much in this deck, especially when his list only plays 21 land (though he does play an above average number of artifact mana sources). I'm also not sure of the value of running only 3 Chalice, as it seems like the full four might be necessary to stabilize in the early game. At first glance, that deck seems like it would just be wrecked by something like RUG or BUG delver. I haven't watched the video yet, so I'll definitely have to do that. CalebD does know what he's doing in this format.
    UBr Tezzeret
    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    I mean, if you're going to play as 61st card, the card should cost over $100 I think.

  6. #206
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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    So I took the exact list posted above to a 36-man SCG IQ yesterday, and unfortunately lost in the finals. My matchups were as follows:

    R1: UB Countertop (2-0)
    R2: Shardless BUG (2-1)
    R3: UB Tezzeret [a more traditional build of it] (2-1)
    R4: UG Infect (2-1)
    R5: BUG Delver (0-2)
    R6: ID
    QF: Shardless BUG (2-0)
    SF: Affinity (2-1)
    Finals: BUG Delver [Same guy as in R5] (0-2)

    Dack Fayden proved his worth multiple times throughout the day, as did Goblin Welder. Dack was phenomenal in the Shardless BUG matchups, probably would have been great in the mirror match (though I didn't see him), and was obviously amazing against Affinity. I actually got to live the dream against Affinity with Dack by taking his Cranial Plating to make my counterattack lethal. In the Shardless BUG matchups, I was able to take their Shardless Agents and Baleful Strixes to stabilize for long enough against their Goyfs for my own walkers to take over the game.

    I think the next thing I might try with the deck is adding an additional land, which will probably be the fourth Polluted Delta. I'm not entirely sure what I'm going to cut for it, but I was mana screwed multiple times on the day (losing me both matchups against BUG Delver), and I think Dack provides the filtering push I need to not be flooded. I also kind of want an out to Null Rod in the sideboard. I've been doing pretty well with this list in my area for the past few months, and other people have started to pick up the deck as well due to the publicity that Joe Lossett has been giving it. As a consequence, more Null Rods have been cropping up in local sideboards, and I currently have zero outs to it with my only "removal" for that sort of stuff being EE. The Helm/Leyline sideboard I've always had around has really not been pulling its weight recently, though I am still deathly afraid of attending a tournament without at least four pieces of hard GY hate in my board. I've actually been considering Rakdos Charm as GY hate as well as a way to kill Null Rod, but that seems really, really deep.
    UBr Tezzeret
    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    I mean, if you're going to play as 61st card, the card should cost over $100 I think.

  7. #207

    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    What's your sideboardplan with the Goblin Welders? When do you board those guys in?
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  8. #208

    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Congratulations for the results @Undomian!! I think Dack Fayden is a good card in the current meta (it is a shame that his last ability is absolutely useless in this deck - I do not know if you had the opportunity to ultimate in your testing/matches).

    I was wondering why you have two copies of Engineered Explosives instead of Ratchet Bomb taking into account that you have two copies of Transmute Artifact MD and two Goblin Welders in the side (please correct me if I am wrong but EE will enter into the battlefield with 0 counters if you use Transmute or the Goblin Welder ability).

    I would also like to know how do you use the Goblin Welders - I understand the interaction between Dack Fayden's +1 and Goblin Welder but I do not see any relevant artifacts to be abussed with Welders (e.g. Wurmcoil Engine, Tangle Wire, Smokestack, etc). I think that Baleful Strix and the singleton Ensnaring Bridge are the only targets that may justify the inclusion of the Welders.

    Thanks,

    J.

  9. #209
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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Welders aren't there for any fancy tricks, they're there for resiliency. I have mostly been testing Welder as a sideboard plan against anything with Abrupt Decay. This deck tends to lean very heavily on a single permanent a lot of the time, and Decay throws a wrench into those plans. It can't be forced and we can't Chalice it (even disregarding how bad Chalice for 2 would be for this deck), so an untimely Decay will often spell the end of the game. Welder is a hedge against this. Either the Welder sticks and recovers those important permanents in exchange for some less important cards, or they kill it and are forced to have another removal spell for our haymakers. Welder is a bit of a 'nonbo' with Chalice, but fortunately enough for us, Chalice is pretty bad in the matchups where Welder is good, making for an easy swap. Using Shardless BUG as an example, I usually sideboard something like this:

    -4 Chalice of the Void
    -2 Force of Will

    +2 Goblin Welder
    +1 The Abyss
    +1 Ensnaring Bridge
    +2 Toxic Deluge

    As for EE, recursion isn't something I'm terribly focused on. I'm in the extreme minority that prefers Mox Diamond over Talisman/Signet, and a lot of my card choices reflect that - including Engineered Explosives. When you have the ability to set it on 3 or even 4 with relative ease, the card becomes much more valuable than something like Ratchet Bomb. Yeah, the card is much worse with Welder and Transmute, but I rarely find myself in a situation where the ability to Transmute for a Ratchet Bomb to go off in a few turns is better than just Transmuting for something with more impact. When you Transmute for a sweeper, you need it now more often than you need it later. There are exceptions, like in the Elves matchup or something similar, but I think the added flexibility and speed of EE is worth the exchange.

    As for Dack Fayden, 100% of the reason for his inclusion is his first ability. This deck plays a lot like a ramp deck with the risk of drawing all mana and no threats, and Careful Study every turn is a pretty great solution to that problem. I've had him above ultimate range on multiple occasions, and I didn't feel bad about it at all. All of the other abilities are just an added bonus, so the fact that I literally have zero ways to trigger the emblem doesn't matter to me. The first time I activated his +1, drew two cards, and discarded two Mox Diamonds in the late game felt SO good. It filters out junk against the decks that want to go long, and finds the cards that matter against the decks that don't. To be perfectly honest, if they had printed an enchantment or something that read "At the beginning of your upkeep, Careful Study" I would have seriously tested it. This card is similar with the added effects that it dies a bit easier, sometimes fogs for you, and leads to the occasional blowout against any artifact-wielding opponent.

    EDIT: On another note, this new 7:30EST Legacy Daily has finally given me the incentive to buy into MODO. I'll be buying this deck there when my next paycheck rolls around, so between that and the Legacy FNM I can attend now, I should be able to get substantially more testing in.
    UBr Tezzeret
    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    I mean, if you're going to play as 61st card, the card should cost over $100 I think.

  10. #210

    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Quote Originally Posted by Undomian View Post
    Welders aren't there for any fancy tricks, they're there for resiliency. I have mostly been testing Welder as a sideboard plan against anything with Abrupt Decay. This deck tends to lean very heavily on a single permanent a lot of the time, and Decay throws a wrench into those plans. It can't be forced and we can't Chalice it (even disregarding how bad Chalice for 2 would be for this deck), so an untimely Decay will often spell the end of the game. Welder is a hedge against this. Either the Welder sticks and recovers those important permanents in exchange for some less important cards, or they kill it and are forced to have another removal spell for our haymakers. Welder is a bit of a 'nonbo' with Chalice, but fortunately enough for us, Chalice is pretty bad in the matchups where Welder is good, making for an easy swap. Using Shardless BUG as an example, I usually sideboard something like this:

    -4 Chalice of the Void
    -2 Force of Will

    +2 Goblin Welder
    +1 The Abyss
    +1 Ensnaring Bridge
    +2 Toxic Deluge

    As for EE, recursion isn't something I'm terribly focused on. I'm in the extreme minority that prefers Mox Diamond over Talisman/Signet, and a lot of my card choices reflect that - including Engineered Explosives. When you have the ability to set it on 3 or even 4 with relative ease, the card becomes much more valuable than something like Ratchet Bomb. Yeah, the card is much worse with Welder and Transmute, but I rarely find myself in a situation where the ability to Transmute for a Ratchet Bomb to go off in a few turns is better than just Transmuting for something with more impact. When you Transmute for a sweeper, you need it now more often than you need it later. There are exceptions, like in the Elves matchup or something similar, but I think the added flexibility and speed of EE is worth the exchange.

    As for Dack Fayden, 100% of the reason for his inclusion is his first ability. This deck plays a lot like a ramp deck with the risk of drawing all mana and no threats, and Careful Study every turn is a pretty great solution to that problem. I've had him above ultimate range on multiple occasions, and I didn't feel bad about it at all. All of the other abilities are just an added bonus, so the fact that I literally have zero ways to trigger the emblem doesn't matter to me. The first time I activated his +1, drew two cards, and discarded two Mox Diamonds in the late game felt SO good. It filters out junk against the decks that want to go long, and finds the cards that matter against the decks that don't. To be perfectly honest, if they had printed an enchantment or something that read "At the beginning of your upkeep, Careful Study" I would have seriously tested it. This card is similar with the added effects that it dies a bit easier, sometimes fogs for you, and leads to the occasional blowout against any artifact-wielding opponent.

    EDIT: On another note, this new 7:30EST Legacy Daily has finally given me the incentive to buy into MODO. I'll be buying this deck there when my next paycheck rolls around, so between that and the Legacy FNM I can attend now, I should be able to get substantially more testing in.
    Many thanks for the detailed explanation. A few more questions. Have you considered moving the four copies of Chalice of the Void to the Side and include the two Goblin Welders and maybe two copies of Galvanic Blast, Whipflare or Red Elemental Blast in the MD? Sometimes I feel that Chalice of the Void is really bad if you are not on the play (50% chance of being on the play in G1) and as you mentioned it is also bad against Abrupt Decay decks (around 25% of the current meta). I know that Chalice on 1 is a potentially GG against combo decks or Canadian Thresholds and it protects our creatures from Swords to Plowshares but if you are not on the play and you don't have sol land/mox + chalice, they lose certain efficiency.

    I was also wondering if now that you are playing a small splash to red, do you think that Blood Moon deserves a space in the 75? I think that with 4 Mox Diamons and 2 Dimir Signet this could be a good addition...

  11. #211
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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Many thanks for the detailed explanation. A few more questions. Have you considered moving the four copies of Chalice of the Void to the Side and include the two Goblin Welders and maybe two copies of Galvanic Blast, Whipflare or Red Elemental Blast in the MD? Sometimes I feel that Chalice of the Void is really bad if you are not on the play (50% chance of being on the play in G1) and as you mentioned it is also bad against Abrupt Decay decks (around 25% of the current meta). I know that Chalice on 1 is a potentially GG against combo decks or Canadian Thresholds and it protects our creatures from Swords to Plowshares but if you are not on the play and you don't have sol land/mox + chalice, they lose certain efficiency.

    I was also wondering if now that you are playing a small splash to red, do you think that Blood Moon deserves a space in the 75? I think that with 4 Mox Diamons and 2 Dimir Signet this could be a good addition...
    I think that, in my meta at least, Chalice is too good to take out of the maindeck. It's good against combo, it's good against Delver, and it's good against Miracles - all decks which are heavily played in my area. Whipflare is certainly an interesting idea, though. I hadn't thought of that since I started playing red. Blood Moon is also a very interesting thought. I think we might need to incorporate more basic lands into the deck if that goes in, because I still run into games from time to time where a Moon is brutally effective at cutting the deck off of its second colored mana source.
    UBr Tezzeret
    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    I mean, if you're going to play as 61st card, the card should cost over $100 I think.

  12. #212

    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    A friend of mine was interested in this deck. We have been testing the following with some decent results. Still trying to figure away around null rod out of certain decks like BUG delver. Also, Jester's Cap is nostalgic and can be cut. Please share your thoughts. I also have the board plans abbreviated.

    Main:
    4 Baleful Strix
    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    2 Tezzeret the Seeker
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Force of Will
    4 Dimir Signet
    2 Talisman of Dominance
    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Sword of the Meek
    2 Thopter Foundry
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    3 Transmute Artifact
    1 Staff of Nin
    1 Engineered Explosives

    1 Academy Ruins
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 City of Traitors
    3 Drowned Catacombs
    3 Island
    2 Swamp
    1 Seat of the Synod
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    3 Flusterstorm
    2 Dread of Night
    1 Cursed Totem
    1 Grafdigger’s Cage
    2 Toxic Deluge
    1 Tormod’s Crypt
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Notion Theif
    1 Engineered Plague
    1 Jester’s Cap

    Vs. Rug
    - 4 Force - 1Staff
    +2 Toxic
    +1 Crypt
    + 1 The Abyss
    Vs. Burn/UR Delver
    + 3 Flusterstorm
    - 1 Staff
    - 2 Tezzeret the Seeker

    vs. Jund
    + 2 Toxic
    + 1 The Abyss
    +1 Crypt
    - 4 Force

    Dredge (Manaless)
    - 2 Tezzeret the Seeker
    - 1 Staff
    (- 4 Chalice)
    + 1 Crypt
    + 1 Cage
    + 1 Jester’s Cap
    (+ 3 Flusterstorm)
    (+ 1 PNeedle for Grizzledbrand)

    BURG Delver/Young Pyromancer
    + 1 E-plague
    + 1 Cursed Totem
    + 2 Toxic
    - 4 Force

    MUD/Chalice Decks
    - 4 Chalice
    + 2 Toxic
    + 1 The Abyss
    + 1 Cursed Totem

    Death and Taxes (Maverick)
    - 4 Force
    - 2 Tezz 1.o
    -1 Jace
    or
    - 4 Chalice
    + 2 Dread
    + 1 Eplague
    + 1 Cursed Totem
    + 2 Toxic
    + 1 The Abyss
    + 1 P Needle

    Shardless BUG and BUG Delver
    - 4 Force
    + 1 The Abyss
    + 2 Toxic
    + 1 Crypt

    Turbo Eldrazi (Lands)
    - 2 Force
    (- 1 Force)
    + 1 PNeedle
    + 1 Jester’s Cap
    (+ 1 crypt)

    Merfolk (Goblins)
    - 4 Chalice draw or Force play
    - 1 Spellbomb
    + 1 Plague
    + 1 The Abyss
    + 2 Toxic
    + 1 Needle

    Elves
    - 2 Tezzeret the Seeker
    - 1 Spellbomb
    - 2 Jace
    + 1 Eplague
    + 2 Toxic
    + 1 Cage
    + 1 Cursed Totem

    Esper Blade with Souls
    - 4 Force
    + 2 Dread
    + 1 Needle
    + 1 Thief

    UW stoneblade
    - 4 Force
    - 1 Spell Bomb
    + 1 Thief
    +1 P Needle
    + 1 The Abyss
    + 1 Jester’s Cap

    Deathblade
    - 4 Force
    - 1 Spell Bomb
    + 1 The Abyss
    + 2 Toxic
    +1 Cursed Totem
    + 1 Needle

    Storm
    - 2 Tezzeret the Seeker
    - 2 Bridge
    - 1 Staff
    - 1 Spell Bomb
    + 3 Flusterstorm
    + 1 Jester’s Cap
    + 1 Cage
    + E Plague

    Belcher
    - 2 Tezzeret the Seeker
    - 2 Bridge
    - 1 Staff
    - 1 Spell Bomb
    + 3 Flusterstorm
    + 1 Jester’s Cap
    + 1 Eplague
    + 1 Needle

    UWR Delver
    - 4 Force
    + 1 The Abyss
    +2 Toxic
    + 1 Eplague

    Miracles
    - 1 Bomb
    - 2 Force
    + 1 Thief
    + 1 P Needle
    + 1 Jester’s Cap

    Painter Varaints
    - 2 Tezzeret the Seeker
    - 1 Staff
    - 1 Jace
    + 1 Needle
    + 1 The Abyss
    + 1 Jester’s Cap
    + 1 Cursed Totem

    Reanimator
    - 2 Tezzeret the Seeker
    - 1 staff
    - 1 E.E.
    - 3 Stryx
    + 1 Cage
    + 1 Crypt
    + 1 Jester’s Cap
    + 3 Flusterstorm
    + 1 The Abyss

    Show and Tell
    - 2 E-bridge
    - 1 E.E.
    - 1 Spell Bomb
    + 3 Flusterstorm
    + 1 Jester’s Cap
    + 1 Thief

    Sneak Attack
    - 1 Staff
    - 1 E.E.
    - 1 Spellbomb
    - 2 Stryx
    + 1 P Needle
    + 3 Flusterstorm
    + 1 Jester’s Cap

  13. #213
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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    The maindeck suite of spells seems to be very similar to what Joe Lossett streams with. It has proven to be very solid in his testing, so I see nothing wrong with that. The manabase is obviously different though. Underground Seas are certainly expensive these days, so I imagine that this particular configuration is a budget consideration? Catacombs seems really clunky, and I can't help but wonder if the three copies of those as well as some of the basic lands couldn't be some mix of Watery Grave/Darkslick Shores/(some lesser number of) Catacombs.

    Your sideboard is pretty interesting too. Do you think that Cursed Totem/Dread of Night are better than more copies of Plague or more of some sweeper like Deluge/Massacre/etc.? Also, do you find yourself missing the ability to Transmute for Sphere effects like Lodestone Golem and Trinisphere, or do you find that the additional countermagic that Flusterstorm gives is enough to overcome the post-board combo matchups?
    UBr Tezzeret
    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    I mean, if you're going to play as 61st card, the card should cost over $100 I think.

  14. #214
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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Not sure if this is the right place for this or not, but GerryT recently posted an article about a white version of this deck, piloted by Joe Lossett: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28717_.html.

    The deck still has 8 planeswalkers (albeit only two Tezzerets), but it also has the four main-deck Chalices, Thopter combo, plus a Stoneforge Mystic package.

  15. #215
    Judgy Curmudgeon
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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Let's talk about Joe's list - apologies for the Copy/paste of my response to GerryT:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellomdian;
    "The reason Seeker has traditionally been a secondary walker in artifact-heavy midrange lists is that you can't really generate much advantage from his +1; artifacts with activated abilities requiring a T tend to be weak, and untapping signets after you're already managed to cast a 5CC walker is not high-impact. You are using him (ideally) as a repeatable tutor. There has been quite a bit of discussion as to the value of adding a 3rd color (or in fact building UW or UR Tezz-like lists) with mixed results - adding a 3rd color to the standing UB shell is difficult as your mana requirements are very stringent T2 and T3, while UR Welder-style lists (especially with Dack) tend to be more engine-oriented, often with a prison foundation. The biggest objection to running straight UW so far has been that the loss of UBTezz is a significant hit to the primary card-advantage/filtering/win-con justification of running the artifact shell in the first place - Joe's list is effectively attempting to replace the value of the Tezz with an Elspeth and SFM for a single piece of equipment. At which point, combined with the apparent purpose of Seeker, I have to wonder if the list wouldn't make more sense with Enlightened tutor or Transmute artifact in place of the seeker.

    While I am happy (and to be frank, excited) to throw around Joe's take for variety's sake, it's silly to assume that it has more value that the UR variants, and I remain extremely skeptical of the SFM/Skull package effectively wedged in there...


    EDIT: Yes, SFM gets SotM. So it's a Steelshaper's gift with the ability to flash in a Skull."
    Check out my Legacy UBTezz Primer. Chalice of the Void: Keeping Magic Fair.
    -----
    Playing since '96. Brief forced break '02-04. Former/Idle Judge since '05. Told Smmenen to play faster at Vintage Worlds.
    -----
    Most of the 'Ban brainstorm!' arguments are based on the logic that 'more different cards should get played in Legacy', as though the success or health of the format can be measured by the portion of cards that are available and see play. This is an idiotic metric.

  16. #216

    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    If "we" play The Abyss and the opponent has a TNN. It wont be be affected by this effect. The opponent needn't sacrifice his TNN.
    Is it right?

  17. #217
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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Quote Originally Posted by Deckerator View Post
    If "we" play The Abyss and the opponent has a TNN. It wont be be affected by this effect. The opponent needn't sacrifice his TNN.
    Is it right?
    That is correct, The Abyss is a triggered ability which you control, making TNN immune to it.
    UBr Tezzeret
    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    I mean, if you're going to play as 61st card, the card should cost over $100 I think.

  18. #218
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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Hey, y'all, I'm relatively new to Tezzerator - been playing it in one or two events a week for about three months now - so I'd love some feedback on my list.


    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    1 Academy Ruins
    1 Creeping Tar Pit
    2 Darkslick Shores
    2 Seat of the Synod
    1 Vault of Whispers
    1 Darkwater Catacombs
    3 Polluted Delta
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Island
    1 Swamp

    4 Baleful Strix

    1 Go for the Throat
    1 Transmute Artifact
    2 Thirst for Knowledge
    1 Toxic Deluge
    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    3 Force of Will

    3 Chalice of the Void
    1 Mox Opal
    4 Dimir Signet
    1 Talisman of Dominance
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    4 Thopter Foundry
    2 Sword of the Meek
    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Trading Post


    ** sideboard **


    1 Chalice of the Void
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Spellskite
    1 Trinisphere
    1 Liliana of the Veil
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Witchbane Orb
    1 Damnation
    1 Force of Will
    1 Misdirection
    1 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Karn Liberated


    About some of my choices:
    - My metagame is very fair - lots of Abrupt Decays - so Trading Post has had a lot of utility. I've won games by discarding cards to keep my hand empty for Ensnaring Bridge, made Goats to protect my planeswalkers (and block Goblin Piledriver), and sacrificed superfluous artifacts or dying tokens to either retrieve something from the 'yard or draw a card. It's a bit clunky, but it's worked for me so far. If I had to cut cards, though, it's certainly a contender for a first cut.
    - I play a higher artifact land count (3) than most lists because I want to win more often with a Tezz ultimate and I play a miser's Mox Opal, which I've found to be pretty good. It's easy for some decks to craft a plan against you if they can always predict how much mana you'll have, so I've liked the Mox as a form of surprise ramp. It could certainly be switched to a Talisman, though.
    - With no -drops in the main, I've liked a singleton Darkwater Catacombs. I'm not sold on Creeping Tar Pit, though, especially with the two maindeck Ensnaring Bridges. Perhaps this should be a third City of Traitors. And two Underground Seas is a card availability issue. Ideally, I'd like one or two more.
    - Spellskite has been really good. I wouldn't leave home without it. Witchbane Orb might be too cute, but it neuters decks like Burn, Storm and Pox, all players in my meta. I haven't gotten to cast Liliana of the Veil yet, as it's a new addition to the sideboard, so I'm curious what everyone thinks of her. Karn Liberated is kind of a pet card and did work for Durward in his videos, so I'd like to try it.

    This build slightly deviates from the standard lists, so I thought I'd post it to see if more experienced pilots could provide feedback.

    Thanks, everyone!

  19. #219
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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Hello, what do you think about cutting Chalice for a really strong drop cc1?

    Sensei Divining Top, Brainstorm/Ponder, Thoughtseize/Duress
    BUGdelver
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    - I enjoy doing broken stuff. I don't care if you're having fun as long as I am -

  20. #220
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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Quote Originally Posted by festeringGAB View Post
    Hello, what do you think about cutting Chalice for a really strong drop cc1?

    Sensei Divining Top, Brainstorm/Ponder, Thoughtseize/Duress
    Imho, other decks will be better prepared to work with the "free passage" you are letting them in CMC1. You can play 10-12 cards in there, but most decks will play more cards in that CMC so I think it's key to this deck's success to avoid that and eliminate the CMC1 from your games.
    A PRO doesn't draw, he tutors every turn.

    JMLL

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