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Thread: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

  1. #41
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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    The deck can manage a turn 2 Torpor Orb quite easily and even by turn 3 that's usually enough to slow Goblins down long enough to get a couple 5/5 blockers out before an ultimate Tezzeret ability ends things. Obviously things need to go right, but that burden is on them as well so I usually don't worry about it. Personally I love Orb against deathblade as it usually gets followed up by a cursed totem or Pithing Needle to buy the time needed for an ultimate from Tezz. That being said...I still feel that our matchup against blade is rough without a strong sideboard presence aimed specifically at their deck.
    Today I am become death. The destroyer of worlds. -Oppenheimer

  2. #42
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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Quote Originally Posted by Madmankevinx View Post
    The deck can manage a turn 2 Torpor Orb quite easily and even by turn 3 that's usually enough to slow Goblins down long enough to get a couple 5/5 blockers out before an ultimate Tezzeret ability ends things. Obviously things need to go right, but that burden is on them as well so I usually don't worry about it. Personally I love Orb against deathblade as it usually gets followed up by a cursed totem or Pithing Needle to buy the time needed for an ultimate from Tezz. That being said...I still feel that our matchup against blade is rough without a strong sideboard presence aimed specifically at their deck.
    So you are advocating prioritizing Orb against gobbos over anything else? My problem isn't getting the orb in play early, it's doing so without significantly affecting your own development. Orb not only wrecks your endgame if you are on the thopter-sword plan, it makes Baleful Strix bad. And if you are getting a "couple" of 5/5 blockers on the board, you are not ulting Tezz any time soon, especially if you have the Orb in play still to deal with.

    Cursed totem is another matter entirely. So now, against Deathblade, we have a Topor Orb and either a Needle (narrow) or Totem on the board to stop what exactly? Stoneforge? At the cost of not being able to combo them out now. How are you protecting Tezz from Lingering tokens or Geist?

    If you want to beat Stoneblade (or Deathblade) you need to outdraw them. Don't mindlessly give them value from your fetches if you can avoid it. Don't try to beat them by answering their threats, beat them by posing better threats of your own. T2 Jace or Tezz is still your best line. Chalice for 1 is still a strong tempo play. TfK is underrated advantage.
    Check out my Legacy UBTezz Primer. Chalice of the Void: Keeping Magic Fair.
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    Most of the 'Ban brainstorm!' arguments are based on the logic that 'more different cards should get played in Legacy', as though the success or health of the format can be measured by the portion of cards that are available and see play. This is an idiotic metric.

  3. #43
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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    It just dawned on me that the new rule changes are really going to give this deck a boost. Chaining Tezzeret abilities to make a bunch of 5/5's seems amazing not to mention all the Jace stuff we've all been reading about. I usually just focus on winning via Tezzeret ultimate with this deck, but the 5/5's route actually may have to be my new main focus for a win con! What do you all think?

    And regarding the last post: Torpor Orb stops not just Stoneforge, but Snapcaster Mage and Vendilion Clique as well. That is 7-9 of their attacking threats depending on the build. Cursed totem stops their deathrites with is a very good play. Deathrite is too good to let stay active. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel warm and cozy inside if I have a Torpor Orb out against Deathblade/Stoneblade decks.
    Today I am become death. The destroyer of worlds. -Oppenheimer

  4. #44

    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    I just can't let myself go the Torpor Orb route. Now Cursed Totem on the other hand, that has some possibilities. My worst match ups so far has been Stone Blade and Goblins and that hits problems in both decks plus other things like Maverick and even anything that plays Griselbrand.

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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Quote Originally Posted by AmishLuvah View Post
    I just can't let myself go the Torpor Orb route. Now Cursed Totem on the other hand, that has some possibilities. My worst match ups so far has been Stone Blade and Goblins and that hits problems in both decks plus other things like Maverick and even anything that plays Griselbrand.
    Cursed totem has more application than torpor orb and doesn't interfere with the topther combo. If you have trouble with maverick totem surely helps.

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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    What cards should have in the sideboard against Omnishow running Laboratory Maniac as a wincon? Arcane Laboratory?

  7. #47

    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Quote Originally Posted by Avez View Post
    What cards should have in the sideboard against Omnishow running Laboratory Maniac as a wincon? Arcane Laboratory?
    Wipe Away would be arguably more relevant, giving you the flexibility to bounce the LabMan or the All-Seeing Eye.

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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    I think that if enter the infinite resolves the game is lost: if you bounce labman in response to a draw they can counter their draw, recast labman and win.

    I would focus on prevent them from casting enter the infinite and deny omniscence with chalice of the void, trinisphere, lodestone golem, discard and counters (i'm a big fan of dimir charm because is very good in this matchup too).

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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    I play 3 Venser, Shaper Savant in my SB specifically for that matchup.

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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Quote Originally Posted by Undomian View Post
    I play 3 Venser, Shaper Savant in my SB specifically for that matchup.
    What's the proper way to use Venser when playing against S&T (as far as timing, etc)?

  11. #51
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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Quote Originally Posted by Memnoch View Post
    What's the proper way to use Venser when playing against S&T (as far as timing, etc)?
    Keep in mind that the card is far from perfect, but S&T has too many angles of attack to fight against. Against Omnitell, I usually just allow the Show to resolve (assuming no Dimir Charm in hand if you play that) and put it in that way. If they put in either Halls or Omni, the Venser trigger will force them to have Cunning Wish into their Stifle/Trickbind, so you'll want to put up a fight over their Wish if they have S&T+Target+Wish/Intuition (for Wish) rather than S&T+Target+EtI. Usually a hand sculpted for Wish on their end will be a little weaker than the alternative and contain less countermagic, so with any luck you can win the counterwar. There are a lot of what-ifs here, but I feel that Venser is the best uncounterable answer to this deck. Do note the emphasis on uncounterable, though; there ARE better answers in LSG/Trinisphere that you could still potentially win an early counter war over. Also note that Venser is godawful if your opponent is on Sneak & Show and puts a Griselbrand or Sneak Attack into play.

    Venser is a lot of hoping that they just don't have it all, but it works out well enough most of the time.

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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Quote Originally Posted by Undomian View Post
    Keep in mind that the card is far from perfect, but S&T has too many angles of attack to fight against. Against Omnitell, I usually just allow the Show to resolve (assuming no Dimir Charm in hand if you play that) and put it in that way. If they put in either Halls or Omni, the Venser trigger will force them to have Cunning Wish into their Stifle/Trickbind, so you'll want to put up a fight over their Wish if they have S&T+Target+Wish/Intuition (for Wish) rather than S&T+Target+EtI. Usually a hand sculpted for Wish on their end will be a little weaker than the alternative and contain less countermagic, so with any luck you can win the counterwar. There are a lot of what-ifs here, but I feel that Venser is the best uncounterable answer to this deck. Do note the emphasis on uncounterable, though; there ARE better answers in LSG/Trinisphere that you could still potentially win an early counter war over. Also note that Venser is godawful if your opponent is on Sneak & Show and puts a Griselbrand or Sneak Attack into play.

    Venser is a lot of hoping that they just don't have it all, but it works out well enough most of the time.
    Awesome. Thank you for that sir.

  13. #53
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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Quote Originally Posted by Avez View Post
    What cards should have in the sideboard against Omnishow running Laboratory Maniac as a wincon? Arcane Laboratory?
    Also of note: Early Sphere tricks can really punish that deck. With the rise in popularity of Omnitell variants, I am leaning on the Lodestone more than ever. Not only does it slow down bullsh*t cantripping, it doesn't become completely irrelevant when the Omniscience resolves. I would jump in whole-hog with Sphere of Resistance as well, but the more prison-y I try to play the deck, the harder it seems to actually win. It is nice to make FoW and Pact cost more :)

    I also REALLLLY like Trinisphere, but I haven't hit enough Omni to justify the slots over Duress/Thoughtseize. At some point I might just try a Workshop-esque build with Diamonds, but I don't know how I am going to keep cards in my hand.
    Check out my Legacy UBTezz Primer. Chalice of the Void: Keeping Magic Fair.
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    Most of the 'Ban brainstorm!' arguments are based on the logic that 'more different cards should get played in Legacy', as though the success or health of the format can be measured by the portion of cards that are available and see play. This is an idiotic metric.

  14. #54
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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    I've been getting -destroyed- by this 403 error issue, but I've finally got a computer that lets me access the Source for more than a few minutes. As such, I figured I'd finally be able to link to my article that I wrote on this deck, located here: http://www.mythicgameselmira.com/Forum/page.php?8

    I'm not sure that it necessarily has a lot to add to the discussion, although I did do a few things differently when setting up the list that may be of interest.

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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Quote Originally Posted by Arianrhod View Post
    I'm not sure that it necessarily has a lot to add to the discussion, although I did do a few things differently when setting up the list that may be of interest.
    I LOVE Guardian Beast. I had completely forgotten about this guy until GP Kansas City. While he is slow to come down, he is a great 2-of in the SB for BUG (especially with a ton of Shardless popping up post-invitational.)

    I still don't like Crucible/Wasteland - your mana base is already fragile and I don't even like Academy Ruins (but I still play it...) - but you make the most of it with your MD Trinisphere and Intuition/Ruins. Also "The Sol lands, the 4 Seas, the 4 Deltas, and the Ruins are all inviolate." I feel that you may be too generous to 4 deltas. Given how many of your lands can't be fetched in the first place, you could drop a Delta for a Shore.

    Trading post is neat, but I think it may be too slow for what it accomplishes. I don't think you have enough creatures, and if you are just sacking Strix for value, you are likely going to want to SB them out anyways.

    Always good to see someone with a different take - especially when they have sweet, sweet cards in their brew :)
    Check out my Legacy UBTezz Primer. Chalice of the Void: Keeping Magic Fair.
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    Playing since '96. Brief forced break '02-04. Former/Idle Judge since '05. Told Smmenen to play faster at Vintage Worlds.
    -----
    Most of the 'Ban brainstorm!' arguments are based on the logic that 'more different cards should get played in Legacy', as though the success or health of the format can be measured by the portion of cards that are available and see play. This is an idiotic metric.

  16. #56

    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Hi guys,

    I'm new to the thread and semi-new to the archetype. I spent a fair amount of time last year playing with David Gearheart's Esper-coloured version of this deck. Essentially, it gives up the mana rocks to splash white for spot removal, enlightened tutor, and a handful of white spells including O-Ring and Humility.

    I haven't had much time to play it since before RTR came out, and I've recently taken some time to theorize about how I would like to change the deck. Anyway, one problem that both my list and the UB list faces is Abrupt Decay on the thopter/sword combo. I saw the recent discussion about Guardian Beast, and was wondering if anyone's tried or thought about trying Spellskite as a cheaper (mana cost) alternative? Obviously it doesn't survive multiple abrupt decays, but my thinking is that if we can get even 1-2 turns of thopter/sword activations that should be more than enough time to wrap up the game. Also, as a 4 toughness wall, it does an excellent job of just standing in the way of lots of early aggression.

    Thoughts?

  17. #57

    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashahura View Post
    Hi guys,

    I'm new to the thread and semi-new to the archetype. I spent a fair amount of time last year playing with David Gearheart's Esper-coloured version of this deck. Essentially, it gives up the mana rocks to splash white for spot removal, enlightened tutor, and a handful of white spells including O-Ring and Humility.

    I haven't had much time to play it since before RTR came out, and I've recently taken some time to theorize about how I would like to change the deck. Anyway, one problem that both my list and the UB list faces is Abrupt Decay on the thopter/sword combo. I saw the recent discussion about Guardian Beast, and was wondering if anyone's tried or thought about trying Spellskite as a cheaper (mana cost) alternative? Obviously it doesn't survive multiple abrupt decays, but my thinking is that if we can get even 1-2 turns of thopter/sword activations that should be more than enough time to wrap up the game. Also, as a 4 toughness wall, it does an excellent job of just standing in the way of lots of early aggression.

    Thoughts?
    First post for me here :)

    Anyways, Guardian Beast is a decent pick, I've been running two misdirection in the board and it's been working well. I've more than once redirected an ancient grudge on a chalice to a mana rock and had the other player scoop it up.

  18. #58
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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkii View Post
    First post for me here :)

    Anyways, Guardian Beast is a decent pick, I've been running two misdirection in the board and it's been working well. I've more than once redirected an ancient grudge on a chalice to a mana rock and had the other player scoop it up.
    I generally play MD for the BUG match - there are always so many good targets for what they are trying to do...

    The big issue is overcoming the card disadvantage. Misdirecting a Hymn or Visions is only a card up.
    Check out my Legacy UBTezz Primer. Chalice of the Void: Keeping Magic Fair.
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    Playing since '96. Brief forced break '02-04. Former/Idle Judge since '05. Told Smmenen to play faster at Vintage Worlds.
    -----
    Most of the 'Ban brainstorm!' arguments are based on the logic that 'more different cards should get played in Legacy', as though the success or health of the format can be measured by the portion of cards that are available and see play. This is an idiotic metric.

  19. #59
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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    Quote Originally Posted by Arianrhod View Post
    I've been getting -destroyed- by this 403 error issue, but I've finally got a computer that lets me access the Source for more than a few minutes. As such, I figured I'd finally be able to link to my article that I wrote on this deck, located here: http://www.mythicgameselmira.com/Forum/page.php?8

    I'm not sure that it necessarily has a lot to add to the discussion, although I did do a few things differently when setting up the list that may be of interest.
    Thanks for this article, I decided to play this deck, and more specifically your build, for a "Win an FTV" event on Saturday. I knew the event would be small, but it was even smaller than we imagined.

    In the end, I was lucky to top 4, as a friend of mine scooped me into the top 4, as he was undefeated.

    I proceeded to have revenge on Mono-Red Burn, winning in 3 after losing in three to the same person in the Swiss. I then took down ANT in the final to win my 3rd FTV 20, with the fourth to come in trade from a friend of mine.

    Ultimately the Wastelands were not particularly valuable, I don't recall even wasting anyone all day (except myself, in the face of a Price of Progress), 3 basics were great though. I am on the fence, I think they are good enough to keep, so I need to test them more.

    Trading post was amazing, when I finally managed to get it on the board while still at a reasonable life total. In one game it saved me from taking 3 from a Smash to Smithereens and drawing me a card. It also gained 8 life in another game and I ended up winning at 4 life.

    I was unimpressed with Thirst For Knowledge, but I am unsure what else I would want to run in it's place. I think I will keep testing Thirst and see how it does going forward. I am not keen on Intuition in that spot, it doesn't give me the card advantage I think I am looking for in that spot.

    I changed the board, I was expecting Elves, so I had some Perishes and also I including Lodestone Golem (two copies). He was great in my top 4 matches, proving more than enough clock and just enough disruption to get me there. I think at least 2 copies should be in most builds, as he is seriously a house. I also ran Trinisphere in the main (one copy), I really did not want to lose to combo, I really like 1 in there, even on second turn, it's just too good not to have (Transmuting a mana rock into a Trini is just great).
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  20. #60
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    Re: [Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

    I took down a tournament for a Sea today with this:

    Code:
    4	Baleful Strix
    1	Dimir Charm
    4	Force of Will
    2	Transmute Artifact
    4	Chalice of the Void
    4	Mox Diamond
    2	Dimir Signet
    2	Sword of the Meek
    3	Thopter Foundry
    1	Crucible of Worlds
    1	Ensnaring Bridge
    1	Engineered Explosives
    2	The Abyss
    3	Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    4	Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    1	Academy Ruins
    1	Creeping Tar Pit
    1	Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1	Sunken Ruins
    1	Island
    1	Swamp
    3	Wasteland
    4	Ancient Tomb
    2	City of Traitors
    4	Polluted Delta
    1	Tropical Island
    3	Underground Sea
    	
    2	Lodestone Golem
    4	Leyline of the Void
    1	Helm of Obedience
    1	Trinisphere
    1	Cursed Totem
    1	In the Eye of Chaos
    1	Guardian Beast
    2	Infest
    1	Perish
    1	Engineered Explosives
    R1: Taylor with Dredge (1-2)
    R2: Todd with Omnitell (2-1)
    R3: Nick with Goblins (0-2)
    R4: Logan with Shardless Bug (2-0)
    R5: Arbob with Elves! (2-0)

    I barely squeaked into top 8 in 8th place, but then ended up with awesome pairings until the finals:

    T8R1: Dylan with Miracles (2-1)
    T8R2: David with Miracles (2-1)
    T8R3: Max with Omnitell (2-1)

    I pulled the win out of Omnitell by the skin of my teeth. In G2, I kept a hand that was something like Academy Ruins, Chalice, Trinisphere, Lodestone Golem, Baleful Strix, Tezzeret, announced that I was "yolo-keeping" my hand (after the thorough 2x Force backup hand that he had on his mull to 6 game 1) and drew 3 lands consecutively to win the game. Game 3 I stayed a turn ahead of him, ending with a board state of Jace, Trinisphere, 2 LSG, Chalice on 3 to win the tournament and get myself a new Sea. I was extremely happy with my sideboard, as I actually sided every card at some point for once. The only real disappointment was with Guardian Beast, who I never drew and who would have never had time to do any work with the thorough beating I gave my Shardless opponent (assembled Crucible+Wastelands very early both games). I might replace that with either a second Trinisphere or a third LSG depending on what I see in the room. I'd also love to find a spot for a Trinisphere main, but as I'm already on 61 cards I'm not sure what to take out.

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