What is your list? Always interested in how people shoehorned them into the deck.Originally Posted by Sisyphos
I played the list posted here with some very minor changes. Played a second City of Traitors instead of the second Inventors' Fair, switched from two Bridges main and two Trinispheres in the board to one of each main and one of each in the board, played one Mox Opal instead of the sixth mana rock (another thing I wanted to try out for quite some time) and made some changes to the board based on my local metagame.
Please tell me we're moving to some Trinket Mage action. Fuck yes.
Anyone spent some attention to the Tezzeret list making 2nd place at KMC, spoiled on MTG Goldfish? What do you guys think of not playing FoW at all?
It is the first UBr list I've seen with such a setup, but playing Helm/Leyline main and cutting FoW is nothing new. Some U/B lists have been doing so since 2014. Though I would never run only 3 Leyline main. If you want to go deep enough to run the combo main, go all the way to make it more likely to have it as soon as possible, especially when in UBr you have Dack to pitch excess copies.
I have never seen FoW as essential to the deck. It is replacable. The deck is not really good at coming back from 2-1ing itself, so FoW is for emergency use only. Especially in a version running Helm/Leyline main or an increased number of artifacts, you also run the risk of simply having it stuck in your hand as you run very few blue cards to pitch. So depending on the list you're running, FoW is actually worse than other options like Flusterstorm or Mindbreak Trap.
Last edited by Sisyphos; 03-31-2017 at 02:08 AM.
I haven't played FoW in the deck (grixis for me) for some time and I haven't missed it a bit. You only really want FoW to stop a combo deck that's about to kill you, or if you can kill your opponent quick enough that the tempo is worth the loss of card advantage. Tezz usually cant take advantage of the tempo, and we have enough other tools in the deck that combo matchups shouldn't give you too many problems. Chalice, Bridge, Leyline, 3sphere, Lodestone Golem, etc are all cards at your disposal that give assorted combo decks fits. MUD/Stax decks don't need FoW to shitcan combo and I don't think Tezz does either really.
Additionally, it's always put me off a bit that usually pitching a blue card to FoW results in losing one of your main business cards, like a Thopter Foundry or a planeswalker. I found myself a lot of times casting FoW and then not really having anything to follow it up with.
From nothing came teeth.
I've found the best use for fow in this deck isn't necessarily for combo decks, but for the truly preposterous situations legacy presents. An enchantress player casting solitary confinement, the elves player casting a winter orb, the food chain player casting manipulate fate, the DNT player casting cataclysm, the burn player dropping a sulfuric vortex...etc etc etc. Somewhere along the day, you are going to encounter something that you couldn't possibly have accounted for in your sideboard given the dizzying depth of the format. fow ends up being a potential catch all answer for the ridiculous. It's not always a great answer, but the opportunity cost isn't outrageous as it's a card that is debated to get played anyway for its value against combo.
I do think we should try to maximize it's value if run though. Ie running a fire/ice before the 2nd/3rd copy of kolaghan's command, a flusterstorm before the 2nd/3rd copy of lodestone golem, a keranos or padeem before the copy of batterskull/wurmcoil.
Played *ACTUAL PAPER MAGIC* today (gasp...!) in a 19 player GPT today. #1 in Swiss, dropped before T8 because I still don't know if I am going to Vegas.
It's nice to know that a straight U/B list is still viable. Played against Reanimator, Rock, and Eldrazi. ID'd and played for fun against Sneak&Show and Miracles. Ensnaring Bridge is still a Very good card.
Play of the day: Reanimator BLOWS me out T1 with a Sire. G2, he T1 Pitch-casts Unmask targeting himself. I pitchcast MisD, retargeting it on myself. Why, yes, I will 3-for-2 myself to keep from losing on the spot... :)
Hoping to play more often, as I have been informed the Denver scene is healthier than when I took a break. Probably going to keep slinging this list, unless something else catches my eye... I do have a set of my own Dack's now
Check out my Legacy UBTezz Primer. Chalice of the Void: Keeping Magic Fair.
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Playing since '96. Brief forced break '02-04. Former/Idle Judge since '05. Told Smmenen to play faster at Vintage Worlds.
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Most of the 'Ban brainstorm!' arguments are based on the logic that 'more different cards should get played in Legacy', as though the success or health of the format can be measured by the portion of cards that are available and see play. This is an idiotic metric.
Made top 8 of a local today after crushing FNM last night playing with some Ballista in my maindeck and a Liquidmetal coating just for shits and giggles before losing to a bunch of sideboard cards against Grixis Deliver. Ballista has been about what I expected it to be, but I think I'm going to keep playing it until I play against more matchups where it actually matters. Today's tournament was bye, MUD (2-0), D&T (2-1, misplayed with Ballista to lose this), Miracles (2-0), and draw. Coating wrecked our Enchantress player (TBH these stupid interactions are mostly why I wanted to try it again) but I don't think that card is long for my list.
- What is your list currently? I looked back through a few pages, and didn't see anything current.
- I'm still trying to wrap my head around Ballista in UB. I have a ton more mana, so it can go bigger, but it seems better against Aggro matchups than midrange when compared to stuff like Damnation and The Abyss. If we were still in a world where you have to kill a Delver T1 every other game, it seems really good, but I don't think we live in that world anymore. O/c, it DESTROYS DnT, so there's that...
Check out my Legacy UBTezz Primer. Chalice of the Void: Keeping Magic Fair.
-----
Playing since '96. Brief forced break '02-04. Former/Idle Judge since '05. Told Smmenen to play faster at Vintage Worlds.
-----
Most of the 'Ban brainstorm!' arguments are based on the logic that 'more different cards should get played in Legacy', as though the success or health of the format can be measured by the portion of cards that are available and see play. This is an idiotic metric.
Hi,
i am starting to play grixis Tezz, i like this deck.
Can someone give me some side table to help me?
I have a tournament in 3 week.
I am playing that list :
Creature
4 baleful strix
Planewalkers
4 Tezz
2 dack
1 daretti
1 jace
Spell
4 force
2 transmute
1 toxic deluge
Artifact
4 mox diamond
4 calice
2 dimir
2 bridge
3 foundry
2 sword
1 crucible
Lands
1 academy
4 ancient tomb
1 badland
1 city of traitors
1 creeping tar pit
1 inventor's fare
2 island
4 polluted delta
1 swamp
2 underground sea
1 urborg
1 volcanic Island
1 scalding tarn
2 wasteland
Sideboard
1 the abyss
1 toxic deluge
2 trinisphere
1 EE
1 engineered plague
2 Flusterstorm
3 leyline of the void
1 helm
1 missdirection
1 ghirapur
1 daretti
I am not sure about missdi and the second trini.
Last edited by Cyanhur; 04-24-2017 at 06:29 AM.
I registered this based on my expected metagame (we've had a LOT of players on Elves and S&T recently, which really means that I probably shouldn't have played this deck in the first place- What is your list currently? I looked back through a few pages, and didn't see anything current.
- I'm still trying to wrap my head around Ballista in UB. I have a ton more mana, so it can go bigger, but it seems better against Aggro matchups than midrange when compared to stuff like Damnation and The Abyss. If we were still in a world where you have to kill a Delver T1 every other game, it seems really good, but I don't think we live in that world anymore. O/c, it DESTROYS DnT, so there's that...):
Probably wouldn't register that exact 75 again. Ballista is great against Elves, but other than that it just makes good matchups better and is straight up useless a nonzero percentage of the time. My inner Johnny really wants Liquimetal Coating to be good (on paper it's reasonable to me with 6 ways to abuse it in the 75), and I did manage to remove a postboard Rest in Peace with it one game by taking it with Dack and turning it into a Thopter, but there are definitely times when the card is bad. I'm not sure why it took me so long to try out Inventor's Fair. That card was awesome every time I drew it. Swapping out a Wasteland for that was the easiest thing to do without having much time to test, but it's possible that the card I remove for it should be something else.Code:1 Academy Ruins 4 Ancient Tomb 2 Bloodstained Mire 1 City of Traitors 1 Inventors' Fair 2 Island 4 Polluted Delta 1 Swamp 3 Underground Sea 3 Volcanic Island 2 Wasteland 4 Baleful Strix 4 Chalice of the Void 4 Dack Fayden 2 Dimir Signet 2 Ensnaring Bridge 3 Force of Will 1 Liquimetal Coating 4 Mox Diamond 2 Sword of the Meek 3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas 3 Thopter Foundry 2 Transmute Artifact 2 Walking Ballista Sideboard: 1 Chains of Mephistopheles 2 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast 1 Engineered Explosives 1 Force of Will 1 Helm of Obedience 4 Leyline of the Void 3 Lodestone Golem 2 Toxic Deluge
Your maindeck choices look pretty normal, though I'm not sure how great Crucible actually is given that you're playing less fetchlands and only 2 Dack. I'm also not a huge fan of your changes to the deck's manabase; swapping out blue lands for Badlands and Urborg might make it difficult to cast Jace and Transmute in a pinch. As for your SB, Misdirection is great against most flavors of BUG, and the second Trinisphere is great against combo but might be better as the first Lodestone Golem. It's less disruptive, but it can't be hit by Abrupt Decay and it provides a quick clock.
[QUOTE=Undomian;1002230]I registered this based on my expected metagame (we've had a LOT of players on Elves and S&T recently, which really means that I probably shouldn't have played this deck in the first place
Probably wouldn't register that exact 75 again. Ballista is great against Elves, but other than that it just makes good matchups better and is straight up useless a nonzero percentage of the time. My inner Johnny really wants Liquimetal Coating to be good (on paper it's reasonable to me with 6 ways to abuse it in the 75), and I did manage to remove a postboard Rest in Peace with it one game by taking it with Dack and turning it into a Thopter, but there are definitely times when the card is bad. I'm not sure why it took me so long to try out Inventor's Fair. That card was awesome every time I drew it. Swapping out a Wasteland for that was the easiest thing to do without having much time to test, but it's possible that the card I remove for it should be something else.Code:1 Academy Ruins 4 Ancient Tomb 2 Bloodstained Mire 1 City of Traitors 1 Inventors' Fair 2 Island 4 Polluted Delta 1 Swamp 3 Underground Sea 3 Volcanic Island 2 Wasteland 4 Baleful Strix 4 Chalice of the Void 4 Dack Fayden 2 Dimir Signet 2 Ensnaring Bridge 3 Force of Will 1 Liquimetal Coating 4 Mox Diamond 2 Sword of the Meek 3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas 3 Thopter Foundry 2 Transmute Artifact 2 Walking Ballista Sideboard: 1 Chains of Mephistopheles 2 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast 1 Engineered Explosives 1 Force of Will 1 Helm of Obedience 4 Leyline of the Void 3 Lodestone Golem 2 Toxic Deluge
With only 2 wastelands and no crucible in the 75, are they not just better off being additional fetches at that point? Haha also agreed on liquimetal coating, its so juicy on paper. Would you sooner go up to 4 ballista? or go to 0?
That could certainly be an option, yeah. I just really like having access to that sort of effect, so if I try anything it would likely be a fetch and a Dust Bowl or something. As for Ballista, I'm probably more likely to go back to accepting that Elves is unwinnable and not playing it since that, D&T, and Grixis Delver are the only (well represented) decks where it's effective, and the latter two are already even to favorable matchups.
Out of curiosity what does your UB list look like now (if you don't mind sharing)? I found one you posted a while back, I imagine it's roughly sameish. I tried out the UBr version that Undomian has been championing and found that it really didn't fit my playstyle, would be very curious to try out UB.Played *ACTUAL PAPER MAGIC* today (gasp...!) in a 19 player GPT today. #1 in Swiss, dropped before T8 because I still don't know if I am going to Vegas.
It's nice to know that a straight U/B list is still viable. Played against Reanimator, Rock, and Eldrazi. ID'd and played for fun against Sneak&Show and Miracles. Ensnaring Bridge is still a Very good card.
Play of the day: Reanimator BLOWS me out T1 with a Sire. G2, he T1 Pitch-casts Unmask targeting himself. I pitchcast MisD, retargeting it on myself. Why, yes, I will 3-for-2 myself to keep from losing on the spot... :)
Hoping to play more often, as I have been informed the Denver scene is healthier than when I took a break. Probably going to keep slinging this list, unless something else catches my eye... I do have a set of my own Dack's now
Well we lost our best matchup, which is kind of a hit to the deck. It'll be interesting to see how this deck evolves post-Miracles. I'm anticipating either an overload of removal to deal with the impending Deathrite apocalypse or a resurgence of combo as an archetype, both of which allow for this deck to remain playable.
Etched Champion's time to shine with a little padding of the artifact count? no fear of terminus anymore and its strong in the face of abruptdecay.dec
Okok tanks, i Will make some change.
What do you think -badland - urborg for 1 underground and 1 volcanic ? Or More Feitch?
What Can i play main deck if i cut crucible? A second toxic deluge main deck ?
And what is your opinion about loosing miracle Match up?
Tezzerator is fine vs stoneblade ? 4 c contrôle ? Grixis delver?
I havent any experience with the deck and i dont know if i have to make some change main deck and sideboard ?
Witch older card will be good again? The abyss? Mephistoles?
If you insist on playing Creeping Tar Pit you probably want to add a Volc and another fetchland. This deck is historically fine against Stoneblade, Grixis Delver is about even to favorable depending on your draws and exact deck configuration, and while I don't have a ton of playtesting against the recent 4C Control lists, that matchup does not look great. Who can say what the metagame and everyone else's decks will end up looking like, though, with Miracles out of the format?
Also, for the record, Chains and The Abyss never stopped being good.
Yeah, I'm really, really afraid the deck is much worse in the larger meta post-Top ban. I personally think everyone should be playing a one-of Padeem mainboard now with the potential for Abrupt Decay going up now.
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