[Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

[Sisyphos]

Don't play Thopter Spy Network. The card is not worth a slot in any deck. Possible replacements: 4th Ballista, a sweeper (Deluge or Damnation), Jace the Mindsculptor. I'd mention The Abyss as well, but as you're working on a budget version that is probably out of question. Other consideration would perhaps be a 23rd land. I have considered going up to 23 due to a lot of mulligans recently and with Vein instead of City you might lack mana for follow up plays. But you'd have to test to find out if an additional land is necessary.

[Undomian]

Reshape is also pretty terrible, so you might be better served with Whir of Invention (or maybe like Fabricate) in that slot.

[a tribe called trest]

Reshape is also pretty terrible, so you might be better served with Whir of Invention (or maybe like Fabricate) in that slot.

We probably aren't there yet, but I can foresee a day when Whir of invention becomes an upgrade on transmute in a straight u/b build. Chalice, sorcerous spyglass, crucible, bridge are all good lock pieces that provide value tapping for Whir. Maybe in a few years as more artifacts get printed.


To the folks trying multiple Tezz the seekers in U/B with the new walker rule, is the goal to be helming people main board again? How much value is it providing as a 5 mana tutor? Enough to warrant moving off Jace?

[Sisyphos]

To the folks trying multiple Tezz the seekers in U/B with the new walker rule, is the goal to be helming people main board again? How much value is it providing as a 5 mana tutor? Enough to warrant moving off Jace?

So far I've not moved back to Helm maindeck yet, as the five slots required make the deck a bit clunky and the meta is not as graveyard reliant as during the Treasure Cruise/Dig through Time era. But having 4 Transmute effects (2 of them reusable) instead of 2 adds a lot of consistency. You find Bridge/ThopterSword/Trini or other silver bullets much easier. The deck never played as much shuffle effects as other decks that play Jace, so you can't abuse infinite Brainstorm as much. Look at it this way: Would the deck rather draw a random extra card each turn or find the missing lock/combo piece? But then again I played Seekers even before the rules change so maybe I'm a bit biased.

[Ellomdian]

You're going to have a hard time playing UBr without Mox Diamond, as that card is pretty vitally important to the deck's strategy and manabase. Luckily, UB doesn't need that, and that build recently received a pretty huge buff with the change to the Planeswalker rules. I haven't done a lot of testing with the UB variant recently, so I don't have a list, but the ones in the primer could probably be a reasonable starting point with some number of Tezzeret the Seeker over Jaces.

Undomain has far more experience w/ the Grixis build than me, so he's authoritative, but IMO the only reason to play the Grixis build over the UB one is that Diamonds give you more explosive draws. You need to be doing something unfair T1/T2/T3 (or you are losing a lot of games) and Grixis does that more reliably.

Thank you, guys. So the best plan would be to go with UB first and maybe going Grixis later.

I have planned to go with following starting decklist:

(Budget-ish decklist here.)

So, this point comes up in Legacy a lot, but it bears repeating in the context of this deck: There are specific cards in the pool that make various strategies just work, and those strategies aren't particularly effective outside of them. Trying to play a deck like this without access to the appropriate engine cards (Sol Lands, Diamonds in the Grixis build) is likely going to result in a very unsatisfactory experience for you. If you want to try out the deck before you acquire cards, play with proxies. But if you try to sleeve up a discount version for a sanctioned match, you had better hope that your opponent decided to play Modern cards that day, because you lose so many of the advantages that the deck is exploiting within the context of the format. The deck was originally fully predicated on landing a 4cmc walker on T2, because that was difficult for opponents to interact with. Making the same play T4 can often mean you are just straight dead-on-board.

We probably aren't there yet, but I can foresee a day when Whir of invention becomes an upgrade on transmute in a straight u/b build. Chalice, sorcerous spyglass, crucible, bridge are all good lock pieces that provide value tapping for Whir. Maybe in a few years as more artifacts get printed.


To the folks trying multiple Tezz the seekers in U/B with the new walker rule, is the goal to be helming people main board again? How much value is it providing as a 5 mana tutor? Enough to warrant moving off Jace?

Man, if Whir wasn't always UUU... The value of Transmute is that it can function on an absurdly low base. I played a game last week that was T1 Tomb, Sword / T2 Talisman, Sea, Transmute Sword for Foundry. It just boggles my mind having a tutor that requires UUU, when I win an awful lot of games because I did something busted with 2UU.

I'm still not sold on a MD combo that requires you to draw a BB2 enchantment naturally in an environment where the graveyard isn't reliably being heavily abused, but the new walker rule certainly makes people that are bound and determined to make their good cards cost more than 4 happy.

--

Honestly, overall, I'm a bit down on Tezz (and mid-range value strategies) right now. Miracles-less Miracles (UWx Control) is kind of Garbage-y, and the strongest decks I am seeing regularly are either straight up broken (SnT) or Aggro decks with value creatures that make Baleful Strix look downright homely, and that can comfortably sit behind a Bridge for 3-4 turns while still proactively interfering with my plan. If Czech Pile and DnT continue to make up large portions of the meta, feasting on bad Grixis players and the like, it's probably time to pack up Chalices and just bring something Scary to class for 2U.

[Undomian]

I'm in agreement with Ellomdian that this deck isn't in a great spot right now. I've told others that the draw to this deck is that it was the best Chalice deck because it got to play Force of Will to supplement your combo plan and a combo that is pretty good against anything fair. In a format where Force is not great, to say the least, and the best fair deck is playing a thousand ways to destroy your combo pieces, that draw is somewhat lacking. If you want to be playing the best Chalice deck at this particular point in time, the ones with Blood Moon or stupidly pushed creatures are probably a bit better off.

Not that that means that I'm not playing the deck; I have entirely too much fun with Thopter/Sword for that.

[a tribe called trest]

I'm with both of you on the deck not being well positioned at the moment. The leyline helm combo takes up too much sideboard space to properly fight the pile and value decks. There's no free wins with tormods crypt, but its much better in that kind of meta. You can bring in 1 or 2 against them to help mitigate the snapcaster flashbacks without needing to over commit with helmline. Keranos is also a house in that matchup if you can resolve it

[Ellomdian]

If you want to be playing the best Chalice deck at this particular point in time, the ones with Blood Moon or stupidly pushed creatures are probably a bit better off.

And, more importantly, I don't think Chalice-on-One is even in the Top 5 plays you could be doing in Legacy currently. We've been talking locally how little true tempo there is in the meta right now - I know a few Czech Pile players that wouldn't even know what to do if they got Wasteland-ed and Fetch-Stifled, but because the only low-to-the-ground deck seeing lots of play is Burn, they don't have to worry about it.

I moved my Cities into SnT this weekend, and I'm trying to figure out what I still don't own for AnT. If the rest of the format doesn't want to police the truly unfair stuff...

[filln]

Any thoughts about Storm the Vault // Vault of Catlacan in Grixis Tezz? With thopter tokens and Strix it's not too hard to get in for combat damage and once it flips you can sink the mana into creating more Thopters or a Walking Ballista. That said, if you already have Thopter + Sword out you're probably going to win. Seems like a fun one-of than a staple but I'll be testing it anyway.

[Undomian]

Yeah, that card seems extremely win-more, and 4 mana is competing with actual win conditions. Academy is powerful at any point in the game, especially with Thopter/Sword, but the front being basically useless kind of throws me off of the card entirely.

[a tribe called trest]

Search for azcanta flipping into that academy land would have been our ideal card

[Ellomdian]

Any thoughts about Storm the Vault // Vault of Catlacan in Grixis Tezz?

- It costs 4, so it's competing with stuff like Tezz AOB and JTMS.

- It takes quite a long time to actually flip.

- When it does actually flip, it... helps you have more mana to cast stuff. You know, the stuff in your deck you weren't able to cast with the 4 mana you had to play it in the first place...

Sure, it looks like Academy. But in Legacy, it's about as functional as the Cradle one is in Elves - you don't really need more mana if you've got it online in the first place.

[civet five]

- It costs 4, so it's competing with stuff like Tezz AOB and JTMS.

- It takes quite a long time to actually flip.

- When it does actually flip, it... helps you have more mana to cast stuff. You know, the stuff in your deck you weren't able to cast with the 4 mana you had to play it in the first place...

Sure, it looks like Academy. But in Legacy, it's about as functional as the Cradle one is in Elves - you don't really need more mana if you've got it online in the first place.

Just want to point out that it flips off of 5+ artifacts, not just Treasures. I agree that 8Tezz probably isn't the place for it, but it is pretty easy to flip in Legacy and doesn't require combat damage to flip.

[Ellomdian]

Just want to point out that it flips off of 5+ artifacts, not just Treasures. I agree that 8Tezz probably isn't the place for it, but it is pretty easy to flip in Legacy and doesn't require combat damage to flip.

Most of the time in UB, I have less than 5 artifacts in play unless I am going off with Thopters or playing to a corner-case Tezz ult.

If you want to flip it, you can, but your board state is likely to be garbo when you do.

Of course, I've been playing around with Mirage mirror this week, so what do I know?

[Undomian]

I have been absolutely crushing my locals with this recently, having gone 4-0-1 in the last two events I've played in:

4 Baleful Strix

2 Transmute Artifact
3 Force of Will

4 Thopter Foundry
3 Sword of the Meek
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Dack Fayden
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Search for Azcanta

4 Mox Diamond
2 Dimir Signet

1 Academy Ruins
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 City of Traitors
1 Dust Bowl
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
1 Force of Will
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Lodestone Golem
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
2 The Abyss
2 Toxic Deluge

There's been a lot less Czech Pile recently, which I can probably attribute most of that to, but I've also just been very happy overall with the performance of this configuration in the recent metagame.

[a tribe called trest]

Are you ever boarding out Azcanta? Or is it giving enough value to clear the top of the deck even against grave hate

[Undomian]

Are you ever boarding out Azcanta? Or is it giving enough value to clear the top of the deck even against grave hate

I only very rarely board it out. It's very good at finding sideboard cards in the postboard games.

[a tribe called trest]

Thread has been pretty dead, so ill toss out a random white splash/non force of will build I've been dicking around with that feels pretty good.


4 baleful strix
1 breya ethereum shaper

2 transmute artifact

4 mox diamond
2 dimir signet
4 chalice of the void
4 thopter foundry
3 sword of the meek
2 ensnaring bridge
1 crucible of worlds

4 dack fayden
4 tezzeret, agent of bolas

1 academy ruins
4 ancient tomb
1 inventors fair
2 island
4 polluted delta
3 scalding tarn
1 swamp
1 tundra
2 underground sea
2 volcanic island
4 wasteland

s/b

3 tormods crypt
1 flusterstorm
2 abrade
2 containment priest
2 ethersworn canonist
1 engineered explosives
2 lodestone golem
2 batterskull



The maindeck breya can easily be something more practical like engineered explosives or ensnaring bridge, but without force of will in this build it seems better to be going forward with threats rather than defensive. Until people start playing the good reanimator deck again, I'm gonna keep trying to get away with crypt instead of leyline to gain some sideboard space, and have a card or two to help nerf snapcaster mage in grindy games.

Cut force of will in order to bump up the land count to support wasteland/crucible. I dont think this deck is capable of wastelanding and force of willing at the same time, so that was where the decision point came. Wanted to have more live cards against delver in game 1.

Cards ive been most happy with are the white sideboard cards against combo, and abrade. Its a clean instant answer to drs that doesnt get pyroblasted, and also destroys an aether vial/needle.

[smutko]

I need sideboard help!

Here's my list:

(21 Lands)
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Darksteel Citadel
4 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Glimmervoid
1 Academy Ruins

3 Mox Opal
3 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond (I really hate this card but I'm not sure what I want instead)

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Baleful Strix
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Sword of the Meek
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Time Sieve (I'm trying it out as a way to end the game the turn I untap with a Seeker, definitely cuttable)

4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Thoughtcast
4 Tezzeret the Seeker
3 Tezzeret Agent of Bolas
3 Force of Will

Sideboard cards I like:
Misdirection
Tormod's Crypt
Ethersworn Canonist (As a 1-of to tutor with tezz)

Sideboard cards I'm not seeing in the last few lists posted to this thread but I'm curious to try:
Dismember
Spatial Contortion
Engineered Explosives

Sideboard cards I've tried and found unsatisfying:
Chill
Echoing Truth
Lodestone Golem
Bitterblossom
Defense Grid

I'm aware my deck is a bit different that the one you all have more experience with but I'm struggling to make sideboard plans i'm happy with and wondered if I could get any suggestions here.
How good is Inventors' Fair?

Thanks!

[Undomian]

That is a bit different than what we usually talk about, so which matchups are you having issues with?